88 replies to this topic

[why me]

The entire church endowment ceremony has now been posted on the web by someone who has a recommend and fllmed the ceremony in secret while he participated.  What is interesting is that although faces have been blurred, they can still be recognizable, especially by those who were filmed. Could these people file a lawsuit against the person who did this? Also, can the church sue to have the video taken down? And why would someone do such filming?

I kinda of feel sorry for the guy who broke the trust that he was placed in. But then, in these times when people seem to have ill intent everywhere, I should not be so surprised.

[thesometimesaint]

Possibly invasion of privacy, and slander.

[why me]

thesometimesaint, on 08 September 2012 - 04:31 AM, said:

Possibly invasion of privacy, and slander.

Of course I can't post the video but the blurring of the faces did not seem to work very well. I am just surprised that he could sneak a device into the ceremony and not be discovered. I think that the security needs to be upgraded. But then again, if the level of trust is high it may not be that difficult to do something underhandedly.

[KevinG]

Temple security is there to protect patrons and property, not keep secrecy.

Security for the endowment ceremony itself is up to the honor of participants.  I mentioned this on another thread but I have a strong suspicion the covenant not to reveal portions of the endowment are more of a test of our honor than any expectation on the part of God that the endowment will never be revealed by an apostate.

Anyone who thinks they are clever for posting the endowment on the internet is only kidding themselves.

[why me]

KevinG, on 08 September 2012 - 05:41 AM, said:

Anyone who thinks they are clever for posting the endowment on the internet is only kidding themselves.

I agree. However for those people who are not members the ceremony just may seem crazy. However, for those who critically reflect on the videoing of the ceremony itself and the lack of trust involved and the sneakiness of it all, maybe they will also find it all rather disgusting to do such a thing.

[bluebell]

This kind of thing strikes me as some sort of teenage rebellion that seems to sometimes afflict grown people.  There's no reason for the person to have done it, except to prove to the church and members that they could.

They'll reap what they have sown eventually.  Pity for the person probably is the proper emotion since they are the only one they have really harmed.

[Duncan]

I am surprised that anyone could actually do it without getting caught but as the NT says they have their reward

[KevinG]

Duncan, on 08 September 2012 - 07:31 AM, said:

I am surprised that anyone could actually do it without getting caught but as the NT says they have their reward

I am envisioning a smart phone and a button cam running under the noses of an elderly couple with bad eyesight officiating a ceremony in a crowded room.   Meanwhile the snickering rebellious wolf chiuaua in sheeps clothing thinks they are pulling off the great train robbery while the theme from mission impossible runs through their imagination.

I think Bluebell has it right with the whole teenage rebellion thing.  I prefer to leave my development arrested at childlike rather than adolescent and vindictive.

[DH]

thesometimesaint, on 08 September 2012 - 04:31 AM, said:

Possibly invasion of privacy, and slander.

How is it slander? Slander is saying something (false) about someone that makes that person look bad. Since when is attending the temple a bad thing?

Having said that, I'm not saying that posting the video on the Net was right.

Edited by DH, 08 September 2012 - 07:43 AM.

[KevinG]

DH, on 08 September 2012 - 07:42 AM, said:

How is it slander? Slander is saying something (false) about someone that makes that person look bad. Since when is attending the temple a bad thing?

Having said that, I'm not saying that posting the video on the Net was right.

I agree there.  Punishment for violating church covenants would be withdrawal of the temple recommend and excommunication.  There is no legal jurisdiction other than perhaps copyright violations for rebroadcasting without consent of the LDS church (or major league football).

[Duncan]

it's up there allright, how wonderful and joy to the world...

[Duncan]

KevinG, on 08 September 2012 - 07:54 AM, said:

I agree there.  Punishment for violating church covenants would be withdrawal of the temple recommend and excommunication.  There is no legal jurisdiction other than perhaps copyright violations for rebroadcasting without consent of the LDS church (or major league football).

I had to interrupt my listening to Daft Punk to check it out, so that's blasphemy right there says I

[KevinG]

Part of me is curious to see what the quality of the film is but most of me doesn't want to give the offensive website any traffic.

[ERMD]

"...they will be in my power."

Edited by ERMD, 08 September 2012 - 03:39 PM.

[DBMormon]

KevinG, on 08 September 2012 - 05:41 AM, said:

Temple security is there to protect patrons and property, not keep secrecy.

Security for the endowment ceremony itself is up to the honor of participants.  I mentioned this on another thread but I have a strong suspicion the covenant not to reveal portions of the endowment are more of a test of our honor than any expectation on the part of God that the endowment will never be revealed by an apostate.

Anyone who thinks they are clever for posting the endowment on the internet is only kidding themselves.

I agree, the covenant is with us.  If someone has to take means to prevent us from using agency and breaking a covenant then in their heart they broke it anyway.

[Sleeper Cell]

why me, on 08 September 2012 - 03:48 AM, said:

The entire church endowment ceremony has now been posted on the web by someone who has a recommend and fllmed the ceremony in secret while he participated.  What is interesting is that although faces have been blurred, they can still be recognizable, especially by those who were filmed. Could these people file a lawsuit against the person who did this? Also, can the church sue to have the video taken down?

It is my understanding that it is a violation of California law to film people at a time and place where they have a reasonable expectation of privacy, without their knowledge and consent. I suspect that other states have similar laws.  However, a lawsuit would be impractical, because the film would probably have to be shown in court.  I believe that the church could also sue for violation of copyright, but doing so would be impractical for the same reason.

[CA Steve]

Sort of a side question but do those who watch this video, either aware of how the Church feels about its temple ceremony or not, commit any sort of transgression by doing so?

[KevinG]

CA Steve, on 08 September 2012 - 08:35 AM, said:

Sort of a side question but do those who watch this video, either aware of how the Church feels about its temple ceremony or not, commit any sort of transgression by doing so?

If there is any transgression it is lack of respect for the sacred nature of the ceremony.  An endowed member should not encourage the act by giving the site traffic.  An unendowed member should respect the practice of waiting until they are ready to attend the ceremony in its full context.

[CA Steve]

KevinG, on 08 September 2012 - 08:38 AM, said:

If there is any transgression it is lack of respect for the sacred nature of the ceremony.  An endowed member should not encourage the act by giving the site traffic.  An unendowed member should respect the practice of waiting until they are ready to attend the ceremony in its full context.

How about someone who views it with out any idea what it means to the Church? No problem on his/her part correct?

[Deborah]

This is a despicable act by someone who has made an oath to God. God will be his judge. I wouldn't even do something like that in a secular setting if I took an oath not to reveal certain things or even if it was understood as part of the policy. Many people who leave companies sign non-disclosure agreements. There can be serious consequences if they do even if they no longer believe in the company. Imagine the consequences to God for breaching a trust.