Mark Wright and Brant Gardner, "The Cultural Context of Nephite Apostasy," Interpreter: A Journal of Mormon Scripture, 1/1 (2012): 25-55
http://www.mormonint...phite-apostasy/
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New Article On Interpreter
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Bill Hamblin
, Aug 10 2012 11:14 AM
60 replies to this topic
#1
Bill Hamblin
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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:14 AM
#2
volgadon
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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:17 AM
Wonderful. As I said recently, we could use more works on Nephite apostasies.
Calba Savua's Orchard
I assure you that it is you that is ignorant of ancient Judaism. Read the Bible instead of listening to your teachers who appose [sic] the bible. -Echo
i REALLY NEVER NEW YOU WAS A UNLEARNED PERSON. -Lucy Ann Harmon, a facebook anti-Mormon
I assure you that it is you that is ignorant of ancient Judaism. Read the Bible instead of listening to your teachers who appose [sic] the bible. -Echo
i REALLY NEVER NEW YOU WAS A UNLEARNED PERSON. -Lucy Ann Harmon, a facebook anti-Mormon
#3
Bill Hamblin
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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:19 AM
Well, we've got plenty of Nephite apostates!
#4
volgadon
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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:20 AM
Bill Hamblin, on 10 August 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:
Well, we've got plenty of Nephite apostates!
Apologists are closet apostates anyway, right? =)
Calba Savua's Orchard
I assure you that it is you that is ignorant of ancient Judaism. Read the Bible instead of listening to your teachers who appose [sic] the bible. -Echo
i REALLY NEVER NEW YOU WAS A UNLEARNED PERSON. -Lucy Ann Harmon, a facebook anti-Mormon
I assure you that it is you that is ignorant of ancient Judaism. Read the Bible instead of listening to your teachers who appose [sic] the bible. -Echo
i REALLY NEVER NEW YOU WAS A UNLEARNED PERSON. -Lucy Ann Harmon, a facebook anti-Mormon
#5
Bill Hamblin
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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:24 AM
volgadon, on 10 August 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:
Apologists are closet apostates anyway, right? =)
I believe you are thinking of apostatologists.
#6
Scott Lloyd
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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:27 AM
Great.
But as a subscriber, aren't I supposed to get an email notification? I haven't gotten one yet.
But as a subscriber, aren't I supposed to get an email notification? I haven't gotten one yet.
To whom it may concern: If you feel inclined to do anything for or in behalf of me after I die -- or even while I'm living, for that matter -- that is comparable in intent to Mormon vicarious baptisms or other ordinances for the dead, feel free. I would even regard it as a magnanimous gesture. I would appreciate the thought in any case.
Nobody gives you all the facts all at once, leastwise anti-Mormons and hostile critics. If selective focus or emphasis amounts to deceit, they are the worst of offenders.
If I detest anything as virulently as anti-Mormons obviously detest Mormonism, feel free to label me as "anti-" the thing I detest. I won't mind in the least.
An author who undertakes to criticize publicly another's religious faith and practice has the obligation, in the first instance, to understand it.
... and the anti-Mormon saith unto them: I am no anti-Mormon, for there is none — and thus he whispereth in their ears.
Nobody gives you all the facts all at once, leastwise anti-Mormons and hostile critics. If selective focus or emphasis amounts to deceit, they are the worst of offenders.
If I detest anything as virulently as anti-Mormons obviously detest Mormonism, feel free to label me as "anti-" the thing I detest. I won't mind in the least.
An author who undertakes to criticize publicly another's religious faith and practice has the obligation, in the first instance, to understand it.
... and the anti-Mormon saith unto them: I am no anti-Mormon, for there is none — and thus he whispereth in their ears.
#7
Bill Hamblin
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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:39 AM
Scott Lloyd, on 10 August 2012 - 11:27 AM, said:
Great.
But as a subscriber, aren't I supposed to get an email notification? I haven't gotten one yet.
But as a subscriber, aren't I supposed to get an email notification? I haven't gotten one yet.
You should. I haven't received one yet either, so it may take a while to process. Give it an hour or two, and if you still haven't received notice, let me know and we'll check on it.
#8
David T
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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:48 AM
I subscribe by rss. Much quicker 
Found out by it before I saw this here.
Found out by it before I saw this here.
Improvement Era: A Blog About Mormon History, Doctrine, Culture, and Scripture
David T was formerly known here at MD&D as nackhadlow
David T was formerly known here at MD&D as nackhadlow
#9
why me
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Posted 10 August 2012 - 12:05 PM
Bill Hamblin, on 10 August 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:
Mark Wright and Brant Gardner, "The Cultural Context of Nephite Apostasy," Interpreter: A Journal of Mormon Scripture, 1/1 (2012): 25-55
http://www.mormonint...phite-apostasy/
http://www.mormonint...phite-apostasy/
Good article. Hopefully the good work will continue. I look forward to many more articles. By the way, can we expect some critical reviews of literature written by critics and exmormons?
Joseph Smith Quotes
... I love that man better who swears a stream as long as my arm, and administering to the poor and dividing his substance, than the long smooth faced hypocrites. I don't want you to think I am very righteous, for I am not very righteous. God judgeth men according to the light he gives them.
Words of Joseph Smith, p.204 (18 May 1843)
... I love that man better who swears a stream as long as my arm, and administering to the poor and dividing his substance, than the long smooth faced hypocrites. I don't want you to think I am very righteous, for I am not very righteous. God judgeth men according to the light he gives them.
Words of Joseph Smith, p.204 (18 May 1843)
#10
Daniel Peterson
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Posted 10 August 2012 - 12:27 PM
Yes, you can.
#11
David T
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Posted 10 August 2012 - 12:42 PM
This paper was good compliment to much of the material in Gardner's Second Witness commentary. I had recently completed his volume on 2 Nephi-Jacob, and found some of the same principles from there expanded upon in this paper. Nice work.
Improvement Era: A Blog About Mormon History, Doctrine, Culture, and Scripture
David T was formerly known here at MD&D as nackhadlow
David T was formerly known here at MD&D as nackhadlow
#12
morgan.deane
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Posted 10 August 2012 - 12:55 PM
Daniel Peterson, on 10 August 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:
Yes, you can.
#13
volgadon
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Posted 10 August 2012 - 12:58 PM
morgan.deane, on 10 August 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:
I was hoping the journal would be named something like Scriptoral Explorations and Ancient Research. I couldn't work an "M" in there, but if I did this would have been the SMEAR journal. And every article a SMEAR piece. With all of the gnashing of teeth over the Dehlin piece I got a chuckle out of the thought. As it stands I enjoy the first two entries a great deal. Thanks!
Meandering, or Musings.
Calba Savua's Orchard
I assure you that it is you that is ignorant of ancient Judaism. Read the Bible instead of listening to your teachers who appose [sic] the bible. -Echo
i REALLY NEVER NEW YOU WAS A UNLEARNED PERSON. -Lucy Ann Harmon, a facebook anti-Mormon
I assure you that it is you that is ignorant of ancient Judaism. Read the Bible instead of listening to your teachers who appose [sic] the bible. -Echo
i REALLY NEVER NEW YOU WAS A UNLEARNED PERSON. -Lucy Ann Harmon, a facebook anti-Mormon
#14
why me
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Posted 10 August 2012 - 01:36 PM
morgan.deane, on 10 August 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:
I was hoping the journal would be named something like Scriptoral Explorations and Ancient Research. I couldn't work an "M" in there, but if I did this would have been the SMEAR journal. And every article a SMEAR piece. With all of the gnashing of teeth over the Dehlin piece I got a chuckle out of the thought. As it stands I enjoy the first two entries a great deal. Thanks!
Your title is too long for an internet journal. Much better to keep it simple and to the point since this is what holds the people's attention.
Joseph Smith Quotes
... I love that man better who swears a stream as long as my arm, and administering to the poor and dividing his substance, than the long smooth faced hypocrites. I don't want you to think I am very righteous, for I am not very righteous. God judgeth men according to the light he gives them.
Words of Joseph Smith, p.204 (18 May 1843)
... I love that man better who swears a stream as long as my arm, and administering to the poor and dividing his substance, than the long smooth faced hypocrites. I don't want you to think I am very righteous, for I am not very righteous. God judgeth men according to the light he gives them.
Words of Joseph Smith, p.204 (18 May 1843)
#15
why me
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Posted 10 August 2012 - 01:38 PM
Daniel Peterson, on 10 August 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:
Yes, you can.
Good. By the way I recommended that on the homepage the heading "About" should be changed to Mission Statement. The heading would sound more professional and more exact.
Joseph Smith Quotes
... I love that man better who swears a stream as long as my arm, and administering to the poor and dividing his substance, than the long smooth faced hypocrites. I don't want you to think I am very righteous, for I am not very righteous. God judgeth men according to the light he gives them.
Words of Joseph Smith, p.204 (18 May 1843)
... I love that man better who swears a stream as long as my arm, and administering to the poor and dividing his substance, than the long smooth faced hypocrites. I don't want you to think I am very righteous, for I am not very righteous. God judgeth men according to the light he gives them.
Words of Joseph Smith, p.204 (18 May 1843)
#16
volgadon
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Posted 10 August 2012 - 01:41 PM
why me, on 10 August 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:
Good. By the way I recommended that on the homepage the heading "About" should be changed to Mission Statement. The heading would sound more professional and more exact.
Shh, don't tell JSTOR that they sound like a bunch of vague amateurs.
Calba Savua's Orchard
I assure you that it is you that is ignorant of ancient Judaism. Read the Bible instead of listening to your teachers who appose [sic] the bible. -Echo
i REALLY NEVER NEW YOU WAS A UNLEARNED PERSON. -Lucy Ann Harmon, a facebook anti-Mormon
I assure you that it is you that is ignorant of ancient Judaism. Read the Bible instead of listening to your teachers who appose [sic] the bible. -Echo
i REALLY NEVER NEW YOU WAS A UNLEARNED PERSON. -Lucy Ann Harmon, a facebook anti-Mormon
#17
Brant Gardner
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Posted 10 August 2012 - 01:56 PM
David T, on 10 August 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:
This paper was good compliment to much of the material in Gardner's Second Witness commentary. I had recently completed his volume on 2 Nephi-Jacob, and found some of the same principles from there expanded upon in this paper. Nice work.
#18
volgadon
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Posted 10 August 2012 - 01:58 PM
Bill Hamblin, on 10 August 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:
I believe you are thinking of apostatologists.
Nice.
Calba Savua's Orchard
I assure you that it is you that is ignorant of ancient Judaism. Read the Bible instead of listening to your teachers who appose [sic] the bible. -Echo
i REALLY NEVER NEW YOU WAS A UNLEARNED PERSON. -Lucy Ann Harmon, a facebook anti-Mormon
I assure you that it is you that is ignorant of ancient Judaism. Read the Bible instead of listening to your teachers who appose [sic] the bible. -Echo
i REALLY NEVER NEW YOU WAS A UNLEARNED PERSON. -Lucy Ann Harmon, a facebook anti-Mormon
#19
theplains
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Posted 10 August 2012 - 02:49 PM
Bill Hamblin, on 10 August 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:
Mark Wright and Brant Gardner, "The Cultural Context of Nephite Apostasy," Interpreter: A Journal of Mormon Scripture, 1/1 (2012): 25-55
http://www.mormonint...phite-apostasy/
http://www.mormonint...phite-apostasy/
I think maybe this part needs clarification.
"Nehor emphasizes a different role for priests. They “ought to be supported by the people” rather than laboring to support
themselves. This is an endorsement of social hierarchies and a blatant rejection of equality".
Here are the actions of Alma (contrary to Nehor):
"And he also commanded them that the priests whom he had ordained should labor with their own hands for their support
... And the priests were not to depend upon the people for their support; but for their labor they were to receive the grace
of God, that they might wax strong in the Spirit, having the knowledge of God, that they might teach with power and authority
from God" (Mosiah 18:24,26).
In the Old Testament, the Aaronic priests received portions of what was given by the people. They did not labor to support
themselves (Deuteronomy 18:1-6; Numbers 18:12-24; Leviticus 7:30-34).
Regards,
Jim
#20
Brant Gardner
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Posted 10 August 2012 - 04:26 PM
Jim:
The Nephites did not follow all of the biblical practices. In this case, there were no Aaronic priests, so there was no designated lineage dedicated to temple service. I the new world version of priesthood, it followed a different model. As the verse you cite in Mosiah indicates, the new world priests were not to be dependent upon donated goods, but were to work with their own hands. That is a theme that King Benjamin not only reiterates, but says that he models. The conflict between a social group who desires to be supported and the traditional Nephite desire to have a more egalitarian community are in conflict throughout much of the Book of Mormon.
The Nephites did not follow all of the biblical practices. In this case, there were no Aaronic priests, so there was no designated lineage dedicated to temple service. I the new world version of priesthood, it followed a different model. As the verse you cite in Mosiah indicates, the new world priests were not to be dependent upon donated goods, but were to work with their own hands. That is a theme that King Benjamin not only reiterates, but says that he models. The conflict between a social group who desires to be supported and the traditional Nephite desire to have a more egalitarian community are in conflict throughout much of the Book of Mormon.
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