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A Wrathful God

Wrath Old Testament

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#241 BlueDreams

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 08:08 PM

View PostLibs, on 07 August 2012 - 07:44 PM, said:

No problem, BD.  Don't worry about this, at all.  I am very sorry to hear about your young acquaintance.  It always seems more sad, when young people leave us so soon.  Hope you are feeling better soon.  God bless and comfort you.

It's not that, really. It was having a front row seat, the entire time, to watching his family/friends mourn and say goodbye, the majority I don't know. I feel it's becoming a hands on lesson of mourning with those that mourn. But I'll get to it tonight. It'll be a nice scripture study, besides.
We do not see things as they are, we see them as we are.

UMW is a way of life.

#242 BlueDreams

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 09:57 PM

Some random thoughts before I get to the scriptures themselves:
  • I came to the conclusion that God’s Love is very different from the way we love here on earth. Our love is terribly limited in that we love unilaterally. We love one person. And we love another. We don’t have the full capacity to love all people like God does. God blesses the life of one individual in a means to bless not just the individual but all those around them. His love is truly infinite and ripples in its effect.
  • The entire fabric of all things is reigned by what makes God, God. Love, mercy, compassion, unity, etc. It is, in essence, Zion. Zion, not as a place, but a state of being that meets the ways of the Lord. This is the ultimate gift of the Lord. This is the ultimate governing force of all creation and eternity.
  • I connect wrath to its synonym indignation which according to my googled dictionary means anger arouse by something unjust.
  • It is a great lie that we’re separate, that our actions have minimal consequence beyond ourselves.
Kay, now on to the scriptures themselves…hopefully the musings above will link in ok.

So this is a story about Noah and the Flood. But it’s far more than that, to me. It’s instruction as to what brings God’s wrath and the vast extent of his mercy.  To me, it truly depicts how the Lord is “slow to anger” (ps 145:8 )

So initially we have Enoch and he’s talk about the raising of Zion. It’s not an immediate lifting (though there does appear to be a big immediate portion that are raised up) but described as occurring in the “process of time.” The Lord then describes this process and the efforts needed to take them starting in v 23. This was a process that took generations, lifting people up. But in the meantime the power of Satan also grows (there’s less good to balance out the bad). So God sends angels down to warn the people. And many more were brought up. Meanwhile though, Satan is described as having a “great chain” his power is becoming oppressive to the people. The Lord has literally used all that there was to warn the people and the majority are taken up. What’s left is described as “the residue” of the people. Residue to me, denotes things like soap scum or ashes or remains…. it’s the end of the line. So we have the soap scum of humanity left, the worst of the worst. And this is where the story describes what necessitates the need for wrath.

This is where a number of my points come in. Their actions are not isolated, even in a state where only the most wicked people remain with Satan on earth. There actions cause the “heavens to weep” (28) the earth to mourn in agony (48). I’d disagree with the description of “God felt very sad over the way mankind was behaving....but, still sent the floods” You mentioned. No, the floods were an inevitability to the actions of man. I love the imagery because it points to that: “How is it the heavens weep, and shed forth their tears as the rain upon the mountains?” In my mind, the floods are an indication of the great sorrow that has filled all of creation. It is tearing at all that is, not just themselves, and the negativity is felt throughout all that exists and is created by the hand of the Lord. As His creations, it is also harming them as well. They are being oppressed. Their potential as those who are the “workmanship” of God’s own hands, have been lured and chained down by Satan (by their choice, but still) have come to fully reject all that makes Zion.…which includes their true selves and purpose. In doing so, they are about as useful as ash or residue, exhausting all that was of God.  I (again) love the imagery of the “fire of mine indignation” fire is used often in the scriptures, not only to describe bad, but also the refiner’s fire. It can be used to destroy or perfect. In my mind the difference is our willingness to submit to the refiner’s hands. These are those who will not be held and will thus be scorched. No way around it. If you let go of all that is there to support you, expect to fall. It is unjust that all of creation must continue to suffer under the terrible weight of others sins. And this is exactly what’s occurring. The Lord cannot ignore the cry of pain from His creation. It’s contained, justly, upon those who have brought about such pain. There is the source of His wrath.

But this is, to me, the backdrop to the great extent of God’s mercy. Just as inevitable as the wrath, it is depicted as equally inevitable that Christ must suffer for them, specifically. Their actions, described as more wicked than anything else God has ever seen in all that he’s created, must be atoned. Christ, the embodiment of all that is God, must feel what they feel, irrelevant to whether they turn to Him or not. His wrath is kindled so that the destructive cycle, harming all (not just the residue),may be stemmed. He’s angry because of the depth of sin that harms all that is, causes eternity to shake, the Earth to cry in agony, and pained all those before and after them, and especially Christ. It is justified; it is expected; it must stop. His mercy is enacted in order to heal those wounds that are left. It is apart of the cleansing process that is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.  

Hope that helped.
With luv,
BD

Edited by BlueDreams, 07 August 2012 - 09:58 PM.

We do not see things as they are, we see them as we are.

UMW is a way of life.

#243 Libs

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 11:24 PM

Thank you, so much, BD.  That was really a beautiful explanation of those verses.  I appreciate the time you took to with it.

I like and understand the idea of cleansing...and the flood being tears..cleansing tears.  I am not sure if this is LDS doctrine, but I was told that the flood was a sort of baptism of the earth.  Not sure if that is in the scriptures, though.

Your explanation just reaffirms for me, how deeply one can think about this doctrine.

I studied the O.T. from an Orthodox Christian perspective, which is not nearly as hopeful, for the human race, as LDS doctrine tends to be.  The death of sinners, especially, if God is commanding it, is a sure sentence to an eternal hell. The interpretation is very harsh and without much hope.  Your explanation seems very poetic, by comparison...plus, there is always hope in the eternities for most people.

Thank you, much, BD.  Very inspiring read.



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