90 replies to this topic

[Valentinus]

blackstrap, on 15 July 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

There are also other ,"other sheep" ,and assuming that they are still in a group and still on earth, some of them will still be following the Lord's commands even though they may not be part of the current LDS membership.

blackstrap, on 15 July 2012 - 08:01 PM, said:

There are 6.5 billion of God's children currently on this earth.Our Church has little to no influence on billions of them. IMHO God will choose and utilize people of all faithsand beliefs to further the plan of salvation. I would prefer to say "God does not require some people to be in His Church at this time."

Hallelujah!

[CASteinman]

Valentinus, on 15 July 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

Can you show evidence of this claim without circular argument?

Not by your false definition of what is circular reasoning.

[CASteinman]

Valentinus, on 15 July 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

How Calvinistic of you...I'm glad that God is not an elitist.

Nothing Calvinistic about it.   However, God is sort of an elitist.  Its the plan that only some make it.

[Tacenda]

Valentinus, on 15 July 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

Hallelujah!

If it's true that our membership in the United States is less than 2%, I'll second that Hallelujah!  I often wonder how or when we are ever going to finish the temple work for billions of people.  If it's true that we do need to do this in order for them to make it to the CK, then we need to turn every one of our chapels into a temple during the week and on Saturdays.

Edited by Tacenda, 15 July 2012 - 08:30 PM.

[CASteinman]

blackstrap, on 15 July 2012 - 08:01 PM, said:

There are 6.5 billion of God's children currently on this earth.Our Church has little to no influence on billions of them.

That is irrelevant to what God has declared.

blackstrap, on 15 July 2012 - 08:01 PM, said:

IMHO God will choose and utilize people of all faithsand beliefs to further the plan of salvation.

Hmmm.. thats sure an opinion all right!  

I don't really understand why people who are LDS are so afraid of the Restoration of the Gospel being committed only into the hands of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  It is a key component of the message.

[CASteinman]

Tacenda, on 15 July 2012 - 08:30 PM, said:

If it's true that our membership in the United States is less than 2%, I'll second that Hallelujah!  I often wonder how or when we are ever going to finish the temple work for billions of people.  If it's true that we do need to do this in order for them to make it to the CK, then we need to turn every one of our chapels into a temple during the week and on Saturdays.

This is in the plans.

[blackstrap]

I have done the rough calculations as to how much time it will take to do the work for all those that have passed away. Suprisingly, a couple hundred years will do it.Mind you,that assumes a 12 hr work day and a few more temples ,but still.

[Tacenda]

blackstrap, on 15 July 2012 - 08:49 PM, said:

I have done the rough calculations as to how much time it will take to do the work for all those that have passed away. Suprisingly, a couple hundred years will do it.Mind you,that assumes a 12 hr work day and a few more temples ,but still.

And here I thought I'd be spending the millennium doing their work.

Edited by Tacenda, 15 July 2012 - 09:02 PM.

[CASteinman]

blackstrap, on 15 July 2012 - 08:49 PM, said:

I have done the rough calculations as to how much time it will take to do the work for all those that have passed away. Suprisingly, a couple hundred years will do it.Mind you,that assumes a 12 hr work day and a few more temples ,but still.

Curious.  How many people did you estimate to have passed away?

[hagoth7]

CASteinman, on 15 July 2012 - 06:37 PM, said:

...We know, however that we are the ONLY TRUE and LIVING Church with which the Lord is Well Pleased.  

President Benson said that rather than the Lord being pleased, the church was under condemnation.

[blackstrap]

From various assumptions I picked 12 billion. Then there is the fact that a fairly large percentage died before the age of accountability and that there would be a sizable chunk who would have no desire for the work to be done for them ....yet. I put the temples on a 12hr work schedule although one could argue  for a 24 hour one. I assumed 10 sessions/day with 100 patrons/session. I'll let you fugure out how many temples would be needed on a 7 day work week. There of course might be a big backlog initially from the destruction at the Second coming.

[hagoth7]

HairBear, on 15 July 2012 - 03:21 PM, said:

...My question is this, do you feel that this misquote is responsible for many people thinking that members of the LDS Church are arrogant, or/also that some of us have "tunnel vision" when it comes to truth, and dismiss it when we find it in a source outside Mormonism?

I agree.

[CASteinman]

hagoth7, on 15 July 2012 - 09:35 PM, said:

President Benson said that rather than the Lord being pleased, the church was under condemnation.

According to your link, it was not so much President Benson as it was God.

Fortunately though, we have repented.

[blackstrap]

we?  you got a mouse in your pocket?

[CASteinman]

blackstrap, on 15 July 2012 - 11:14 PM, said:

we?  you got a mouse in your pocket?

Sorry. didn't mean to imply that you personally had repented.  Maybe you can find it in your heart to forgive me....

[rameumptom]

I think many misinterpret the passage.  The LDS Church is the only true and living church with which the Lord is well pleased. That means there may be other true and/or living churches out there, but the Lord is not well pleased with them, because they have accepted creeds or teachings that do not have His approval.

[CASteinman]

rameumptom, on 16 July 2012 - 06:07 AM, said:

I think many misinterpret the passage.  The LDS Church is the only true and living church with which the Lord is well pleased. That means there may be other true and/or living churches out there, but the Lord is not well pleased with them, because they have accepted creeds or teachings that do not have His approval.

Apparently there are people, maybe even a lot of them, who agree with you.  It is absurd to me though, that God would go to all the trouble to notify Joseph Smith that those  "creeds were an abomination in His sight" and that the Churches were "all wrong", that the professors were all "corrupt" so that Joseph should "join none of them" but also tell Joseph that these same :wrong" Churches were "True and Living" despite the corruption.

This doctrine you are proposing sounds to me, ridiculous.

[Valentinus]

CASteinman, on 16 July 2012 - 06:56 AM, said:

Apparently there are people, maybe even a lot of them, who agree with you.  It is absurd to me though, that God would go to all the trouble to notify Joseph Smith that those  "creeds were an abomination in His sight" and that the Churches were "all wrong", that the professors were all "corrupt" so that Joseph should "join none of them" but also tell Joseph that these same :wrong" Churches were "True and Living" despite the corruption.

This doctrine you are proposing sounds to me, ridiculous.

And your elitism is that much more ridiculous and horrendous.

Your styled theology reminds me of the Acts 29 Reformed movement. They believe that their Calvinist based Reformed theology is the ONLY true Christian way of interpreting scriptures and that other simply miss the point. Such arrogance.

Let me put it simply. It would be ignorant and quite stupid for anyone to say that such a claim for their church is okay but not for another. It is a never ending hypocrisy.

To them I scoff...just as I do you.

[Valentinus]

CASteinman, on 15 July 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

Not by your false definition of what is circular reasoning.

Then can you prove your position without asserting LDS authority without quoting the D&C and quoting LDS GAs?

[Valentinus]

CASteinman, on 15 July 2012 - 08:30 PM, said:

Nothing Calvinistic about it.   However, God is sort of an elitist.  Its the plan that only some make it.

Still sounds like Unconditional Election and Limited Atonement to me. Have you read John Piper's book "God Is Most Glorified As We Are Calvinified In Him"?