84 replies to this topic

[Tacenda]

I don't dare bring up the show I watched, that brought this subject up recently, because it might give the subject less credibility.  But anyway, Shawn said that it did exist, but the church has distanced itself from it.  I wonder why.  In my opinion I think this prophecy is a good thing, or not?

Also, I remember talking to my son after he returned from his mission and he gushed about the church having so much money that they'll be able to help the country one day.  I wonder if he heard somewhere about this "White Horse Prophecy".  Something about the constitution may one day  "hang by a thread".

Also, it made me think that possibly the "rainy day fund" that was mentioned in the Bloomberg article might be there for this specific purpose.  Any thoughts on the matter?  Or has this topic come up before and hashed out already.

A quote I found here   http://en.wikipedia...._Horse_Prophecy


In 1928, the LDS apostle Melvin J. Ballard remarked that "the prophet Joseph Smith said the time will come when, through secret organizations taking the law into their own hands ... the Constitution of the United States would be so torn and rent asunder, and life and property and peace and security would be held of so little value, that the Constitution would, as it were, hang by a thread. This Constitution will be preserved, but it will be preserved very largely in consequence of what the Lord has revealed and what [the Mormons], through listening to the Lord and being obedient, will help to bring about, to stabilize and give permanency and effect to the Constitution itself. That also is our mission."^[20]

[calmoriah]

White Horse Prophecy has been discredited.

"Hang by a thread" is accepted, IIRC.

[ERayR]

calmoriah, on 12 July 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

White Horse Prophecy has been discredited.

"Hang by a thread" is accepted, IIRC.

That is what I recall also.

[Nofear]

calmoriah, on 12 July 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

White Horse Prophecy has been discredited.

"Hang by a thread" is accepted, IIRC.

You are correct on both accounts. Not only was the White Horse Prophecy discredited, it was never asserted by authorities in the Church (though it may have had its time among the membership).

While the White Horse Prophecy as a whole is fraudulent, it was a clever enough piece of work to include known prophecy of "hanging by a thread". Critics habitually conflate the two to the detriment of the truth.

FAIR: White Horse Prophecy

[Freedom]

As the linked article probably explains, there never was one and there was never mention of one. The best we have is a fellow recollecting decades later Joseph Smith expressing his opinion of what would happen with the saints. It is never expressed as a prophesy. the notion of the constitution hanging from a thread is not related to this so called prophesy and it was an opinion, not a prophesy, of what may occur in the last says. The idea put forward is that, if the constitution should be abandoned, it would be the elders of Isreal that would defend it.

I have had so many discussions about this notion with so-called experts in mormonism who's main argument of defense is to criticize me for demanding evidence.

[Alan]

I think the White Horse Prophesy is genuine.
There are things contained therein which could not have been known at the time. Especially the role of Russia and a contender for world domination, and the relationship which would develop between Britain and France.
Those who dismiss this prophecy must explain why there is so much correct prophecy in it.

[CASteinman]

I am of the opinion the White Horse Prophecy has some correctly remembered teachings but that it is not quite accurate.   It is interesting but perhaps not reliable.

The Church apparently does not consider it worthy of quotation but I am unaware of any official declaration that it is false.

[ERMD]

The church is not going to deny/refute every false claim that comes along.

[CASteinman]

ERMD, on 13 July 2012 - 06:29 AM, said:

The church is not going to deny/refute every false claim that comes along.

Yeah.....but the White Horse Prophecy is not just any 'ol false claim.

[Freedom]

Alan, on 13 July 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

I think the White Horse Prophesy is genuine.
There are things contained therein which could not have been known at the time. Especially the role of Russia and a contender for world domination, and the relationship which would develop between Britain and France.
Those who dismiss this prophecy must explain why there is so much correct prophecy in it.

This is a bit of an oxmoron. Something that does not exist cannot be genuine.

[Pa Pa]

ERayR, on 12 July 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

That is what I recall also.

A very long time friend brought this up in Church, suggesting this election might be the fulfillment. I told this is not the place for such speculation.

[thesometimesaint]

We do know that Christ will put an end to all nations. But the so called White Horse Prophecy is not accepted by the Church.

[ERayR]

Alan, on 13 July 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

I think the White Horse Prophesy is genuine.
There are things contained therein which could not have been known at the time. Especially the role of Russia and a contender for world domination, and the relationship which would develop between Britain and France.
Those who dismiss this prophecy must explain why there is so much correct prophecy in it.

I look at it as I do the apocrypha.  There is much that is valid but must be read and studied with the help of the spirit.

[ERayR]

Pa Pa, on 13 July 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

A very long time friend brought this up in Church, suggesting this election might be the fulfillment. I told this is not the place for such speculation.

I would agree that quorum meeting is not the place but out in the halls after meeting?  

[Pa Pa]

ERayR, on 13 July 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

I would agree that quorum meeting is not the place but out in the halls after meeting?  

We we're in the halls. Next to an investigator.

[Pa Pa]

thesometimesaint, on 13 July 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

We do know that Christ will put an end to all nations. But the so called White Horse Prophecy is not accepted by the Church.

The Prophet JS used to say..."cling close to the bark of the tree, least reaching for the limbs ye fall". We as a people have too much in the first principles and ordinances of the gospel, to get our foundation to rest upon. when this is done then we can start buIlding our house of cards...but the foundation will remain.

Edited by Pa Pa, 13 July 2012 - 11:27 AM.

[Maureen]

This subject came up years ago at a different forum and it seems to me that many people think that the White Horse prophecy and the "hanging by a thread" prophecy are one and the same; but they are not. As others have mentioned, the LDS church accepts the "hanging by a thread" prophecy but does not accept the White horse prophecy.

http://www.fairlds.o.../whitehorse.pdf

M.

[thesometimesaint]

The pull of Babylon is always there, and there will always be some that succumb.

[Muc'ul Ajwalil]

It is, at best, Mormon Apocrypha.

However, I have been paying more attention to more recent leaders about the topic, such as Ezra Taft Benson.

[ERayR]

Muc, on 13 July 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:

It is, at best, Mormon Apocrypha.

However, I have been paying more attention to more recent leaders about the topic, such as Ezra Taft Benson.

Which is apocrypha?  The white horse prophecy or the hanging by a thread?

The documents show that Joseph Smith did prophesy a number of times that the United States and the Constitution would be imperiled and that the elders would have a hand in saving them. The first known record of the prophecy dates to July 19, 1840, in Nauvoo, when the prophet spoke about the redemption of Zion. Using Doctrine & Covenants 101 as a text, he said, “Even this nation will be on the verge of crumbling to pieces and tumbling to the ground and when the Constitution is on the brink of ruin this people will be the staff upon which the nation shall lean and they shall bear the Constitution away from the very verge of destruction.” (Joseph Smith Papers, LDS Church Historical Archives, Box 1, March 10, 1844.)

While it is included in the White Horse Prophecy it seems that the "hang by a thread" can stand on its own.

Edited by ERayR, 13 July 2012 - 01:20 PM.