Apology

[Spammer]

If her primary fear is for her children and not for her husband, for him she seems to feel positive, then it seems to me most likely that she is concerned for her children's lives during mortality, that they may end up not having as good of lives if they leave the Church and she doesn't want to see them suffer because of it. It may also be fear about their eternal status, but that seems contradictory to her conclusions about her husband's ultimate state...not that all of our beliefs have to be coherent and logical.

You hit the nail on the head. She is principally concerned for our kids' wellbeing in this life. As long as they grow up to be decent people, their eternal status will take care of itself. She's a Mormon who values the values, but doesn't care much about the doctrinal significane of ordinances apart from their status as mileposts in life. Eternal marriage, for instance, binds you eternally to your spouse. That's what counts for her, not the part about how it's required to inherit the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom and exaltation.

[Spammer]

3. People for whom the "heaven are as brass" due to some disorder of which it is not their fault. Our physical natures can overwhelm our spiritual natures, unfortunately, and that means if there is something off physically, the spiritual lines may be blocked at our end.

This kind of list is one of the things that really bugs me about many church members. Please understand, I don't mean to offend. I'm not looking for any apologies. I'll apologize in advance if what I'm about to say seems offensive. I don't mean it to be. But I need to get it out there. I've allowed myself to become so angry, but this is the cause. There's a tendency to always look for an explanation for why people don't gain a testimony, don't feel the spirit, don't gain that witness that the church is true. In my experience, it typically takes the form of blaming the person. Either he fails to realize the spirit speaks in a still small voice, or the heavens are like brass due to iniquity, or they have a disorder, or they weren't really sincere, or they lacked faith, or the spirit whispered and they weren't listening due to distractions, or they prayed and forgot to remain silently listening for the whispering of the spirit, or they prayed but not with real intent. I understand why some make these statements. I get it. They have felt the spirit and it's inconceivable that someone like me could exist, since God is faithful and answers prayers. There has to be an explanation. No matter how well-meaning, it feels like my character is being impugned when people talk like this. Not so much when someone wonders whether I have a disorder, that's pretty neutral. But the other kinds of comments suggest that I'm either a sinner or uninformed. Both are insulting. I'm trying really hard to not feel this way. Hanging out on this forum talking to all of you has really help in this regard.

Well, from my point of view, there's another possible explanation for why I never felt the spirit: maybe God was silent when I prayed and asked for a witness because the church really isn't true after all. When I researched Christian origins, I discovered the evidence for continuity was stronger that the evidence for and apostasy. In my mind, that explained why I had never felt the spirit at church. I know there will be disagreement since church members feel the spirit all the time on Sundays. That's fine, really. More power to you. I'm happy you've found your way and like where you are. All I ask in return from church members in my life is the courtesy of accepting that I was sincere in my search and have arrived at different conclusions. I'm not iniquitous, nor did I pray wrong, listen wrong, fast wrong, magnify my callings wrong, believe wrong, nor do I have a disorder, nor is it my parents fault. I'm ok. There's nothing wrong with me. I just didn't feel the spirit at church and my research led me to a different place. I told the bishop this a few weeks ago when my wife and I met with him. He asked if we could discuss my feelings about the church and I told him that's fine so long as we start from the premise that when I sought to gain a testimony that I was sincere, faithful, magnifying my callings, desirous of that witness, not hiding a secret sin, that I really did do it right and God didn't answer me. He chuckled and said "Well then there's not much to say, you're not speaking our language." That's when he turned to my wife and advised her to face the facts. The last time my mom and I discussed the church (five years ago) she wanted to talk about my lack of a testimony and I told her the same thing: "mom, I love you but if you want to start with the idea that I did something wrong, then we have nothing to talk about. If that's what you and dad really think, then let's just end the conversation right here." She ended it and we haven't discussed the church since. Our relationship is great, we just never talk about church.

I still haven't felt God's presence in any recognizable way, but that doesn't mean it won't happen one day. There are many examples of Christians who suffered long periods of feeling separated from God and were rewarded after faithfully staying on the path for many long years. That's what I hang on to. But lacking any spiritual experiences, the only thing to do is study which of the many paths seems to be the one with the best claims and strongest evidence that it is the means by which to acquire such experiences. This I have done and I found myself in the ancient Christian faith, with the hope that one day I will finally experience the presence of God. I'm interested in truth and the question of 'did Christ or the apostles set up a church?' matters to me. I think that question is vitally important. Whether the answer is yes or no has profound implications of the path I need to be on. My wife doesn't care about any of that at all. Just be a good person and it will all work out. We'll all be surprised when we cross over to the next life. That's her motto. Although she has told me that she thinks that it really doesn't matter what church you go to, she does think the LDS way is the best way to raise kids. Oddly, even though she thinks it doesn't matter what church you go to, she wants me to only attend the LDS church with her. I suppose that's not so odd. Since churches are all basically the same, I suppose she just doesn't get why I think truth matters so much. I want Christ himself as he comes to us in the eucharist, to form the one Body of Christ. I want the true church. She doesn't think there's a single "true church". There are pros and cons. She'll never come over to my point of view, but at least she's not a true believer who fears that her exaltation is at stake. I've heard horror stories of faithful LDS members dumping their apostate spouses to protect their chances at exaltation. I don't think I'll ever be faced with that and that's a blessing.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Spammer

[Calm]

This kind of list is one of the things that really bugs me about many church members.

I have no problem with that. Personally I think with lists if we are being accurate they would generally have to be endless to cover all the variations.

If you are not looking for a reason and can accept God's Will for you no matter what, this is the best way to live imo. Since so many do ask for reasons why, I just assumed you were at that stage as well.

[Spammer]

I have no problem with that. Personally I think with lists if we are being accurate they would generally have to be endless to cover all the variations.

If you are not looking for a reason and can accept God's Will for you no matter what, this is the best way to live imo. Since so many do ask for reasons why, I just assumed you were at that stage as well.

I'm not looking for any reasons now and haven't for a long time. I did look for reasons at first, when I began wondering why God was silent after years of fervent prayer on my part. That's when I first started talking to friends and family and that's when the reasons began. At first I listened to them. I went from through a phase of extreme self-doubt, "what the heck am I doing wrong", redoubling my efforts to no avail. The reasons still kept coming at me from church members. Then I got mad. Not productive, I know. But perhaps, understandable.

[Evangeline]

Well, from my point of view, there's another possible explanation for why I never felt the spirit: maybe God was silent when I prayed and asked for a witness because the church really isn't true after all. When I researched Christian origins, I discovered the evidence for continuity was stronger that the evidence for and apostasy. In my mind, that explained why I had never felt the spirit at church. I know there will be disagreement since church members feel the spirit all the time on Sundays. That's fine, really. More power to you. I'm happy you've found your way and like where you are. All I ask in return from church members in my life is the courtesy of accepting that I was sincere in my search and have arrived at different conclusions. I'm not iniquitous, nor did I pray wrong, listen wrong, fast wrong, magnify my callings wrong, believe wrong, nor do I have a disorder, nor is it my parents fault. I'm ok. There's nothing wrong with me. I just didn't feel the spirit at church and my research led me to a different place.

I recall reading that you have been through the temple. There are certain qualifications to obtain a temple recommend including a testimony of the restoration and a commitment to honesty. Is it possible that you did have a testimony at one time and you've lost touch with something you once had?

[Spammer]

I recall reading that you have been through the temple. There are certain qualifications to obtain a temple recommend including a testimony of the restoration and a commitment to honesty. Is it possible that you did have a testimony at one time and you've lost touch with something you once had?

Hi, thanks for your reply. I had a testimony based on the testimony of my parents and a testimony based on being raised in the church with the goal of going on a mission and a strong desire for receiving my own personal witness one day. When asked if I had a testimony I could honestly answer yes on that basis. I did not have a testimony based on an independent spiritual witness granted to me as a result of study and prayer (Moroni 10:3-5), nor had I ever felt the spirit in any recognizable way. But I still had hope. At the MTC, one day we were discussing testimonies and I excused myself, found an empty room, and poured out my heart to God for a witness, tears streaming down my face. My first day in the mission field I got on my knees that morning and once again asked for that witness. At the first zone conference, an AP asked me to relate my experience of gaining a witness. I made something up but in my heart I knew it was a fabrication. Another time, when I was district leader, the zone leaders were with my companion and I as we challenged an investigator to pray for his own witness. He liked the church and wanted to be baptized, but not without first receiving his own witness as promised by Moroni 10:3-5. The ward mission leader was there too. All six of us knelt while this investigator poured out his heart. After he said amen, the senior zone leader, with tears in his eyes, said he felt the spirit so strongly right then and asked if the investigator felt it too. He said no. I didn't feel anything either. The investigator stood up and said, "sorry guys, I just don't feel anything. I can't do this anymore." And that was that. We rode away on our bikes and I was crying. My companion thought I was upset at losing the investigator. I was mostly upset because I too felt absolutely nothing. I still had not received a witness. As senior zone leader, right before going home, a new set of morning study guides came out to go with the new discussions. There were cassette tapes we had to play and listen along to as we studied together. At one point, the narrator asked us to bear our testimonies to each other and relate time when we recieved the witness of the spirit that the church was true. Same as nearly two years prior, I had nothing and made something up. Inside, I was shaking. I extended my mission for another month to the maximum allowable 25 months. I was filled with faith and hope, even after two years of failure to gain a witness or even feel the spirit once. I went home with that experience. A few months later, I asked my mom why, why would God not answer my prayers for a witness, some kind of spiritual experience like the kind she told me she had, llike my dad said that he had, like grandma, aunts and uncles, church friends, leaders. All she offered was the usual response: "but didn't you have a testimony on your mission? Can't you rely on our experiences, isn't that enough? I've had dreams, I know the church is true." No, it's not enough. I needed my own witness. I needed Moroni's Promise to be fulfilled, exactly as promised. It never was. Then I went to the university library and began digging into ancient history and church history (pre-internet). Over the course of a few years as I was working on my first degree, the whole house of cards collapsed and I became an atheist. I've found since that my experience is not uncommon and a move to atheism seems to be typical of those who leave the church. I don't know why that is.

[Spammer]

First, I wish to express how deeply it saddens my heart to hear of you being under such spiritually stressful circumstances. It is my sincerest prayer that you find peace and comfort.

I want to address your inability to feel the Spirit. I have many friends who are former members of different churches who are now atheists/humanists. I don't wish to sound as though I am encouraging the same path but if that is where you believe you are being drawn then perhaps it is where you are to be or that there is something you need to learn. This perspective I present is not popular but all options must be considered. This is YOUR journey after all and not your family's or anyone else's.

If there are moments where you do feel the Spirit or feel prompted to pursue some spiritual avenue then think it over, talk to God, etc. If you receive an answer then you need to answer God's call. Even if it isn't to the LDS faith.

I don't know that you have a substance abuse problem. It is not my place to speculate on such so I won't further discuss it.

I do recommend full honesty with your wife and children. Keeping quiet about your spiritual issues is moreso problematic as it does nothing to resolve any existing problems.

I wish there were more I could say. You and your family will be in my prayers.

Grace and peace.

Thank you for your prayers, Valentinus. What I believe is that I was led to Catholicism, though I don't know if the sense of being led equals God pulling me or my own intellectual curiosity pulling me. It's just a sense of this is where I needed to and where I need to be. The feeling (if that's what it is) or sense (if that's what it is) emerged and remained with me, slowly growing stronger, after careful reading of the New Testament and the early church fathers convinced me that there wasn't much evidence for an Apostasy after all. Then I discovered through my research that there's a direct link between the ancient Christian liturgy and the liturgy of the 1st Jewish temple (pre-600 BCE). That clinched it for me. First came the intellectual discovery, then came the study of the ancient tradition and the philosophical and theological arguments that came out of it. The sense of a need to unite myself to the ancient church grew slowly but surely alongside as I conducted my research. It took quite a few years, but eventually the sense of being pulled grew so strong that I had to do something about it. The rest is history.

[zerinus]

Oh, sorry. I'm with you now. My wife and I don't pray together and haven't for years.

As you may remember, one of the duties of home teachers in Mormonism is to urge families to "pray vocally and in secret and attend to all family duties" (D&C 20:47). Prayer is considered the most important duty. Indeed, in Mormon scripture neglecting one's prayers (especially family prayers) is almost a disciplinary offence: "And a commandment I give unto them—that he that observeth not his prayers before the Lord in the season thereof, let him be had in remembrance before the judge of my people" (D&C 68:33). The "judge" is the bishop. In other words, it is almost counts as a transgression. If you and your wife have not prayed together for years, that may point to one of the sources of your problems. The fact that you belong to different churches does not prevent you from having family prayers.

I'll broach the subject of fasting and prayer with her. I think she'll be ok with hearing me pray like a Catholic.

So tell me how the Catholics pray. I didn't think the difference should be so great as to create a divide.

Fasting might be an issue. She never fasts. She's not very devout. So long as the kids hear blessings on the food, have a prayer with mom at night, and have a good experience at church, then all will be right with the world.

Perhaps she needs some encouragement from you. You need to set her an example.

[zerinus]

Thank you for your prayers, Valentinus. What I believe is that I was led to Catholicism, though I don't know if the sense of being led equals God pulling me or my own intellectual curiosity pulling me. It's just a sense of this is where I needed to and where I need to be. The feeling (if that's what it is) or sense (if that's what it is) emerged and remained with me, slowly growing stronger, after careful reading of the New Testament and the early church fathers convinced me that there wasn't much evidence for an Apostasy after all. Then I discovered through my research that there's a direct link between the ancient Christian liturgy and the liturgy of the 1st Jewish temple (pre-600 BCE). That clinched it for me. First came the intellectual discovery, then came the study of the ancient tradition and the philosophical and theological arguments that came out of it. The sense of a need to unite myself to the ancient church grew slowly but surely alongside as I conducted my research. It took quite a few years, but eventually the sense of being pulled grew so strong that I had to do something about it. The rest is history.

Have you read the Book of Mormon lately? I wondered what are your thoughts on that.

[CASteinman]

It really is as simple as fears for our kids in this life. She doesn't want them to grow up to be bad people and she sees the church as the best vehicle to teach them the values they need in life. I don't disagree, though I don't think the LDS church monopolizes those values or means of communicating them. My wife is oriented to this life. She thinks that as long as we do our best and are basically good people, everything will work out in the end. She's a Mormon and she thinks the church is true, but the way she talks when we discuss these matters sounds very Unitarian. She says I'm rigid when I say that there really is such a thing as truth and it matters.

Some of the very best and finest people I have met in this life have been Roman Catholics. Honest and full of integrity.

But I think the LDS Church has a sharper focus on strengthening families. If I did not actually care about religion or truth so that it did not matter where I went to Church, I might still want to raise my kids LDS for that reason.

[CASteinman]

My wife thinks that when we get to heaven that we'll all be very surprised. She thinks anyone who's a good person will be there, no matter what ordinances in life were received or what their faith was in life.

Well... she is kind of right. That is what The Vision (D&C 76) teaches us.

[zerinus]

Hi, thanks for your reply. I had a testimony based on the testimony of my parents and a testimony based on being raised in the church with the goal of going on a mission and a strong desire for receiving my own personal witness one day. When asked if I had a testimony I could honestly answer yes on that basis. I did not have a testimony based on an independent spiritual witness granted to me as a result of study and prayer (Moroni 10:3-5), nor had I ever felt the spirit in any recognizable way. But I still had hope. At the MTC, one day we were discussing testimonies and I excused myself, found an empty room, and poured out my heart to God for a witness, tears streaming down my face. My first day in the mission field I got on my knees that morning and once again asked for that witness. At the first zone conference, an AP asked me to relate my experience of gaining a witness. I made something up but in my heart I knew it was a fabrication. Another time, when I was district leader, the zone leaders were with my companion and I as we challenged an investigator to pray for his own witness. He liked the church and wanted to be baptized, but not without first receiving his own witness as promised by Moroni 10:3-5. The ward mission leader was there too. All six of us knelt while this investigator poured out his heart. After he said amen, the senior zone leader, with tears in his eyes, said he felt the spirit so strongly right then and asked if the investigator felt it too. He said no. I didn't feel anything either. The investigator stood up and said, "sorry guys, I just don't feel anything. I can't do this anymore." And that was that. We rode away on our bikes and I was crying. My companion thought I was upset at losing the investigator. I was mostly upset because I too felt absolutely nothing. I still had not received a witness. As senior zone leader, right before going home, a new set of morning study guides came out to go with the new discussions. There were cassette tapes we had to play and listen along to as we studied together. At one point, the narrator asked us to bear our testimonies to each other and relate time when we recieved the witness of the spirit that the church was true. Same as nearly two years prior, I had nothing and made something up. Inside, I was shaking. I extended my mission for another month to the maximum allowable 25 months. I was filled with faith and hope, even after two years of failure to gain a witness or even feel the spirit once. I went home with that experience. A few months later, I asked my mom why, why would God not answer my prayers for a witness, some kind of spiritual experience like the kind she told me she had, llike my dad said that he had, like grandma, aunts and uncles, church friends, leaders. All she offered was the usual response: "but didn't you have a testimony on your mission? Can't you rely on our experiences, isn't that enough? I've had dreams, I know the church is true." No, it's not enough. I needed my own witness. I needed Moroni's Promise to be fulfilled, exactly as promised. It never was. Then I went to the university library and began digging into ancient history and church history (pre-internet). Over the course of a few years as I was working on my first degree, the whole house of cards collapsed and I became an atheist. I've found since that my experience is not uncommon and a move to atheism seems to be typical of those who leave the church. I don't know why that is.

The testimony comes from reading the Book of Mormon, with a sincere desire to know its truth; not from prayer alone. I never prayed to know if the Book of Mormon is true. I never needed to. I knew it was as soon as I started reading it.

Prayer is an expression of the heart's sincere desire. If the desire is there, it acts as a prayer; a formal prayer is not always required.

Edited July 12, 2012 by zerinus

[CASteinman]

careful reading of the New Testament and the early church fathers convinced me that there wasn't much evidence for an Apostasy after all. Then I discovered through my research that there's a direct link between the ancient Christian liturgy and the liturgy of the 1st Jewish temple (pre-600 BCE). That clinched it for me.

I have observed some of the Catholic Traditions being similar or related to certain LDS rituals and practices -- things we might consider to be somewhat unique. Last rites seem to me, for example, to have some correlations with some things in the LDS Faith and Temple Worship. I also think that baptism by sprinkling or pouring would be an example of some similarities. I used to think that this subject would make a good book concept, but I believe someone has beat me to it.

I also have noticed some Catholic similarity to Israelite Temple ceremonies. The clothing certainly harkens back. (I think though that many of these liturgical pieces can be shown to be add-ons, not originally seen in Christian ceremonies)

To a degree then, I can understand your views. All of this similarity to holy things is a part of the reason I like the Catholic Church. To me they are like a sort of canvas that has been repeatedly painted upon, sometimes by masters, sometimes by idiots -- but underneath all the top layers are some pigments, hues and shapes of authentic early Christianity. (In some ways I think the Greek Orthodox Church has also preserved some things -- perhaps even better, but not quite as interesting a set of things and not preserved in quite as interesting a way -- but still I think that they are possibly even more authentic).

I disagree with you about the apostasy. The evidence for it is so well attested.... I cannot understand how anyone can argue against it, except with a mind closed to the evidence. It is shown to have been happening with increasing vigor all through the New Testament and it is shown to have been a terrible concern to the post apostolic Bishops. That there were various factions of Christianity after the apostles is lamented even at the time and that the disputes rose to extremes and was only settled by imposition of the will of a pagan emperor is settled history. The evidence is beyond a reasonable doubt.

As an aside but on a somewhat related note -- I enjoyed learning that the very very ancient Christians used to have a ceremony where they all stood around an altar, rehearsed steps and movements that is described as a "holy dance" and then prayed for a group of people who were afflicted and whose names were said to be "Upon the Altar" (in a book or scroll of some sort). It is amusing in my mind that some enterprising early Christians would carve their names into the wooden altars that have been found, to ensure that they were always prayed for.

[Tacenda]

“A testimony is to be found in the bearing of it!” is a quote by Pres. Packer that was given to incoming mission presidents, in a talk called "The Candle of the Lord". I know this has been taken out of context with some critics and well meaning members of the church. The reason I bring it up is because I wonder how many of us grew up with parents that started us out young at the pulpit "bearing our testimony" that we believe the church is true. Is this a problem in the church? Can it be considered a brain washing to a child? Even though it is innocently done. And maybe that's why some leaders or bishops, ask that we do not encourage our children to bear their testimonies until after they're baptised. Though it still happens. Even at the age of 8, I see a problem with it. Unless they indeed did read the BOM and knelt down and asked if it were true. I still haven't had that witness to me either, Spammer. And have lived on everyone elses testimonies and have seen the way they lead their lives, so that would be my testimony.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Tacenda

[zerinus]

Well, from my point of view, there's another possible explanation for why I never felt the spirit: maybe God was silent when I prayed and asked for a witness because the church really isn't true after all. When I researched Christian origins, I discovered the evidence for continuity was stronger that the evidence for and apostasy. In my mind, that explained why I had never felt the spirit at church.

There is stronger evidence for the Restoration than for the Apostasy. But it is a spiritual evidence which we call a testimony. I didn't join the Church because I became convinced of the Apostasy. The Apostasy was the last thing on my mind. I joined the Church because I discovered it is true. That is how I came to the conclusion that there had been an apostasy. The Apostasy by itself is harder to prove; but the Restoration (with a testimony) is easy to know. Then your eyes will be opened to see the Apostasy.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Folks. I'm sorry for my occasional rants. I'm just tired. That's all. I can be confrontational, only because I'm stuck in this horrible limbo of needing God, doubting that he exists, needing to be Mormon for my family, but incapable of believing that Joseph Smith was a prophet. It's like a trap and I've been in it for over a decade now. There doesn't seem to be any resolution apart from just quitting all religion permanently, but then my wife asks me to pray with the family. My need for God is reawakened with every request, but then I realize once more that I'm trapped. Despair sets in. My family needs me to be Mormon for them, to ordain my sons, to lay my hands and bless my wife. I can't do that unless I believe and I don't. So other men perform the ordinances and blessings, with me standing there awkwardly, outwardly smiling but inwardly depressed. LDS church meetings don't bring me any joy or comfort. Sometimes I go to mass looking for peace, but I have to sneak around to do it. God forbid my wife and sons find out. Catholics find great comfort and joy in going to mass, but I end up depressed since my family isn't there and I have to pretend that I didn't go. It would help if I felt God's presence there, but same as in the wardhouse for my entire life, I just don't. Sometimes I joke with my wife that if there was some kind of brain surgery that would make me believe in Joseph Smith and believe that I actually felt the spirit I would get it. Part of me isn't joking. Isn't that pathetic? What kind of life is that to sometimes wish to have your brain altered for the sake of family unity? My Catholicism and my wife's Mormonism seem to be incompatible. In my home it has to be one or the other, and my wife insists that anything Catholic stay hidden away. She gets to live her faith openly, I have to sneak around and pretend. I'm resentful. I try not to be, but it's hard not to be. Does she even care that I'm suffering? I know it's only because she's filled with fear, but is she really that frightened of my coming out of the closet as a Catholic? Where does that kind of fear come from? Was she socialized by her parents and church friends to fear what might happen to our kids if they find out daddy is a Catholic? Is her fear tied to being surrounded by a culture defined by the First Vision, abominable creeds, and Apostasy? Maybe I should just go back to atheism. It was easier back then to pretend to be something I'm not. I was really good at pretending to be a good Mormon, even teaching Sunday School classes and putting on a show, when in reality the night before I was out at the pub eating wings and knocking back pints with friends. I could do that when it was just me and my wife. She knew what I thought but still wanted me to go and pretend for her, knowing full well I was not a believer. You know, she doesn't want to be the one sticking out with the non-believing husband who isn't there on Sundays. "Poor Sister Spammer". You know how people gossip (my wife's words). But it's killing me to lie to my sons. They don't even know the mind of their own father. So they go to church, I keep my mouth shut, and then we load up in the car, mom asks what the lesson was, and my older son starts talking about how his Sunday School teacher talked about Catholics and how they pray wrong and think silly things about God, "like God's some kind of gaseous substance. Everyone in class laughed." Yea. Haha. That's why I haven't attended any church classes for 8 years. I just sit in the foyer. I don't trust myself. If I was in a class and heard that kind of crap I'd uncharitably let the teacher have it with both barrels. So, on the way home from church, when my boys talk like that, I just grip the steering wheel tighter and floor it. I'm lucky. I currently live in a part of the world where there is no speed limit on the freeway.

I came to this board to vent, I suppose. I'm sorry if I stepped on any toes.

We all do it...no worries. The man your focus should be on is Christ. Joseph was just a man given to both greatness and folly. Edited July 12, 2012 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[Avatar4321]

I hope this doesnt sound too simplistic. But you need to make a choice. A choice to have faith in God or not. Regardless of whether you are Catholic or LDS, waivering back and forth isnt good for you. Make a choice to go all in or not, but if you don't make a choice, it's going to depress you and possibly kill you. The following video is a good analogy and better explanation than I can provide.

http://youtu.be/Y3lQSxNdr3c

Christ taught in the Bible that if you do the doctrine, you will know whether it's of Him or the Father. Exercise some faith. If you cant answer all the questions now, that's fine, but exercise some faith and put the doctrines to practice in your own life. No one lives them perfectly, but if you work on applyiing the principles instead of waivering back and forth, you end up growing personally, you will end up with a testimony of that principle and you will know better that there is a God.

It may sound too simplistic. You may think you tried it before. But what Im suggesting is go into it with the attitutude that you'll act in faith even if you never get answers this life. Just do it. One of those principles is being honest. There is no reason the family should live a lie. In fact, involving the family in a prayer for faith and to live Gospel principles, regardless of the denomination, is something your children shouldn't be denied.

God does not want us acting in fear. We are to act in faith.

[Damien the Leper]

Thank you for your prayers, Valentinus. What I believe is that I was led to Catholicism, though I don't know if the sense of being led equals God pulling me or my own intellectual curiosity pulling me. It's just a sense of this is where I needed to and where I need to be. The feeling (if that's what it is) or sense (if that's what it is) emerged and remained with me, slowly growing stronger, after careful reading of the New Testament and the early church fathers convinced me that there wasn't much evidence for an Apostasy after all. Then I discovered through my research that there's a direct link between the ancient Christian liturgy and the liturgy of the 1st Jewish temple (pre-600 BCE). That clinched it for me. First came the intellectual discovery, then came the study of the ancient tradition and the philosophical and theological arguments that came out of it. The sense of a need to unite myself to the ancient church grew slowly but surely alongside as I conducted my research. It took quite a few years, but eventually the sense of being pulled grew so strong that I had to do something about it. The rest is history.

You're very welcome.

Despite what some LDS may think, I do believe that God calls us where He believes we need to be even if that call is not TO the LDS church or if it is AWAY from the LDS church.