22 replies to this topic

[Duncan]

I got phoned sometime ago about this person who was interested in joining the Church and the missionaries taught her and she joined the Church in our ward. Turns out she actually  lives in another ward, like not at all far out of the ward boundary. She attends here and has been coming and forming friendships and I dunno seems like a great fit. Well, now one or two people in our ward want her to attend the ward she should go to and I say she should stay here, if she comes and is forming friendships then why uproot all that. I get though you want people to go to where they are assigned in ward boundaries but a situation like this she should attend our ward. What do you think?

[calmoriah]

Clear it with the two bishops involved.  Exceptions are made from time to time.

[Hayds]

Personally I think she should be able to attend the ward she is most comfortable with.  I am sure the cranky letter of the law folks will be up in arms about this.

I can see some of the forthcoming responses now.  "If she really had a testimony of the gospel it wouldn't be matter what ward she attended, Harumph!!"

[Duncan]

Hayds, on 24 June 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

Personally I think she should be able to attend the ward she is most comfortable with.  I am sure the cranky letter of the law folks will be up in arms about this.

I can see some of the forthcoming responses now.  "If she really had a testimony of the gospel it wouldn't be matter what ward she attended, Harumph!!"

That is what I think as well, people are more important then policing boundaries

[calmoriah]

Transitions are hard enough without having to do two at once (transition into the Church, transition to a new ward).  I would encourage her to go to the other ward's activities, especially if there are any members who she would encounter outside of Church so she can get to know them so when she is more at home in the faith, she can transfer wards and contribute her gifts to her new ward who are  likely as much in need of them as the ward she is familiar with.  Perhaps the other ward mission leader and/or visiting teachers could be assigned so that connections are being made (especially if there comes a time with a new bishop who is not comfortable with the arrangement).

Bishops being stewards over the wards should know so that they don't need to worry about members who are not appearing on their forms when they think they should.

Edited by calmoriah, 24 June 2012 - 03:43 PM.

[SamIam]

Duncan, on 24 June 2012 - 03:21 PM, said:

I got phoned sometime ago about this person who was interested in joining the Church and the missionaries taught her and she joined the Church in our ward. Turns out she actually  lives in another ward, like not at all far out of the ward boundary. She attends here and has been coming and forming friendships and I dunno seems like a great fit. Well, now one or two people in our ward want her to attend the ward she should go to and I say she should stay here, if she comes and is forming friendships then why uproot all that. I get though you want people to go to where they are assigned in ward boundaries but a situation like this she should attend our ward. What do you think?

I had a similar situation occur, slightly different, however, a member from another stake came to me and wanted to attend our Ward.  I took it to the Stake President and he said sure we will make the change on your request.  However, he stated that in the end these things are never appropriate and what ever attitude has created in them a lack of desire to not maintain the order of the church will manifest itself. In other words he only allowed it so that I could learn the lesson - not because he approved.

Now this sounds like a new member who may not have such lofty deceptions involved as it turned out occurred in my situation.  However, I did learn that the order of the Church is more than a lesson of being kind and helpful and overlooking a few things because at the moment it seems right.

It is a lesson in obedience to the order of things.  That lesson, on my experience, is always best taught early.

It can be done gently where she is fellow shipped by a current friend in your ward who may possibly be able to attend with her in the proper ward until she is comfortable or until she is given a calling which strengthens her sense of unity in the New Ward etc..

When my first experience was over there was notice sent out from SLC, (I don't remember the actual level originating the document) but Stake Presidents were strongly counseled to refrain from boundary infractions in all but the rarest cases.  This council was reiterated in my current stake from the visiting G.A. about 4 years ago in the strongest terms.

[BCSpace]

She should be encouraged to at least try the other ward but likely her testimony is going to be too heavily based on relationships for some years to come.  When she moves or when the ward boundary changes will be the time for the paperwork to fall into place.  Just the reality of most situations like that.  Should be rare as the missionaries usually get them set up in the correct ward.

[rpn]

It isn't her fault she got set up and introduced into the wrong ward.  If I were the bishop I would explain the procedure, and invite her/authorize her to stay in the ward she has been attending until she is willing to seek and get spiritual confirmation that she should go to the new ward.

[Wants2know]

I home visit a young woman who is technically a member of another ward.  She was introduced to the church here, baptized in our church, by our missionaries, and has callings in our branch.  She attends both congregations, often attending the other with her mother and brother. I don't know the technicalities involved, and I'm not sure she does either… but it works for her.

[halconero]

Call me one of those letter of the law folks (personally...I don't feel there should be much of a difference between letter and spirit of the law. 2 Nephi 25: 25 describes my feelings, minus Law of Moses parts), but I would explain to her the function of ward boundaries, and very simply explain the concept of priesthood keys. Then? I would invite her to check out the other ward with some of her friends from this one, go to some activities, meet the Bishop while also telling her that she is welcome here as long as she wants.

Teach a correct principle...then let her figure it out for herself.

[cdowis]

She can attend any ward that she chooses, but she can only have a calling in the home ward and, technically, will receive HT and VT from her home ward  unless exceptions are made by the two bishops.

Edited by cdowis, 25 June 2012 - 03:47 AM.

[DBMormon]

without lying or deceiving it takes first presidency approval to do so.  Stake president has to send in a request.  your situation wouldn't likely be approved

[Duncan]

DBMormon, on 25 June 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

without lying or deceiving it takes first presidency approval to do so.  Stake president has to send in a request.  your situation wouldn't likely be approved

the First Presidency would need to be involved? don't they have a billion other things to worry about then a boundary issue?!

[Anijen]

Hayds, on 24 June 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

"If she really had a testimony of the gospel it wouldn't be matter what ward she attended, Harumph!!"

Perhaps she has a testimony, but it isn't that strong yet. There are many different levels of testimony and I would hope the "letter of the law" types would acknowledge that. Gentle encouragement is needed, but I think it a mistake to say she has to go to a different ward if she feels uncomfortable.

Quote

DBMormon
without lying or deceiving it takes first presidency approval to do so.  Stake president has to send in a request.  your situation wouldn't likely be approved

I have not read this in the handbook. I am a bit of a rebel. I would let her attend a different ward if it is strengthening her, rather than make her attend a ward where she feels uncomfortable and is likely to not to go and lose all activation.

Seriously? We are to invite all to come unto Christ, if an invisible border keeps one from growing I say ignore the border until she has her own light and her own strength.

Border exceptions have been made for General Authorities's we should make them also for those who have budding testimonies.

[DBMormon]

We are the last church that is geographically organized (you live here, here is were you have to attend) As a Bishop, we have had this issue twice in my ward.  for a short time it is ok (few months) but long term it requires first presidentcy approval to have one's membership records kept in a ward outside of the boundary she /he lives in.  You can still go where you want, but difficult to issue callings and record blessings and ordinances as your bishop is the one where you reside.  not debating the right or wrong, just giving the procedure and guidelines and regulation ect....

Ask a stake president, this is the way it is.  and rightfully so.  The main reason people want to violate this is that they like the people where they attend or don't like the members where they live.  there are lesson to be learned about eternal families and dealing in life with people you wouldn't choose to be around.  there are exceptions.  if someone was abused (physical, sexual) by a member in a ward they live in they might get approval to attend another ward.  but has to go through Stake President and he makes a request to the first presidentcy.

Keep in mind your also teaching this new member that rules mean nothing and can be broken in the cause of comfort.  If she went to the other ward, in two months she would be comfortable there as well.

my two cents

Edited by DBMormon, 25 June 2012 - 09:08 AM.

[Anijen]

DBMormon, on 25 June 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

Keep in mind your also teaching this new member that rules mean nothing and can be broken in the cause of comfort.  If she went to the other ward, in two months she would be comfortable there as well.
my two cents

Don't get me wrong I think policies are necessary but it should not be so bureaucratic if some guidelines are broke.

You use the example of abuse that should be a no brainer that they would be an exception. However when I lived in a ward where a Seventy also lived and him and his entire family went to another ward in downtown SLC, simply because it was more convenient for him with his church calling. He was also an employee of the church before his calling and he was in the downtown ward then too and not his assigned ward. So yes he must have had connections with the First Presidency.

I still think there should be some fellowship provided in the ward where this new member feels comfortable. When those two months are up and the Bishop feels this person is not ready to move her activity to her correct ward then I guess I would let the spirit guide. I do feel though after a couple of months and feel she will go inactive I would do the right thing contact the 1st Presidency (via the Stake President) meanwhile allow this member to continue in the ward and when word came back, probably saying she needs to attend her other ward. I would let her know she needs to attend her ward where she lives. I would tell her she is always welcome to this ward and we all in the ward love her but if she decided to come here and although she will be loved and welcomed into our ward I would as gently let her know she is not allowing some growth and blessings because this ward can not offer a calling or home/visiting teachers.

All in all a tough position but should always be handled with love and not let a "letter of the law" attitude dictate how it happens.

Just thinking out loud
Jeff

[DBMormon]

agreed, but what i am saying is that it would be deceptive to not go through the right channels.  Leave it up to the Stake President by notifying him and sharing the details.  He can then decide whther to say no or to apply to first presidentcy.  they can say no or yes and thenfollow the church's direction.  I bet it works out.  Also was the general authorities records in your ward or the one that made it easier for his calling?  you can attend where ever you want.  records are to stay where you live.

[Anijen]

DBMormon, on 25 June 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

agreed, but what i am saying is that it would be deceptive to not go through the right channels.  Leave it up to the Stake President by notifying him and sharing the details.  He can then decide whther to say no or to apply to first presidentcy.  they can say no or yes and thenfollow the church's direction.  I bet it works out.  Also was the general authorities records in your ward or the one that made it easier for his calling?  you can attend where ever you want.  records are to stay where you live.

I agree, if I led you believe that going outside the proper channels that was not what I was saying.

I was not in any calling at that time to be in the know if his records stayed in our ward. All I know is his kids my friends said they were allowed by the church to go to a different ward. They kind of said it as a tone that they were more special. I could be wrong and I was young (18) at the time. I did ask our Bishop if it was true they had special permission and the answer was yes they did.

I remember this well  because my family was moving out and I wanted to continue in that ward and the Bishop said I needed to attend my new ward.  Now that I look back he probably didn't want to interview me any more, I am sure I was responsible for a few of his gray hairs...

[Aliwe]

SamIam, on 24 June 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

It is a lesson in obedience to the order of things.  That lesson, on my experience, is always best taught early.

Boundary infractions. That the Church founded by Christ has boundaries and infractions.   This web forum is serving well in a way that it was perhaps never intended.  The more I hear, the more firmly I feel I could never be a member of the CoJCoLDS.

Colossians 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances...?

[mfbukowski]

Aliwe, on 25 June 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

Boundary infractions. That the Church founded by Christ has boundaries and infractions.   This web forum is serving well in a way that it was perhaps never intended.  The more I hear, the more firmly I feel I could never be a member of the CoJCoLDS.

Colossians 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances...?

I believe you.