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A Successor To The Maxwell Institute: It'S Time To Start Working On It


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#41 wenglund

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 10:36 AM

Now you're talkin.

The Osmonds could supply Utah office space, a server, and cash to such a non-profit educational foundation and claim the outlays as a charitable contribution on their corporate taxes. Great PR.


Yes, but would the publications be a little bit country, or a little bit rock and roll? :crazy:

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Edited by wenglund, 25 June 2012 - 10:36 AM.

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#42 calmoriah

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 03:50 PM

That one hurt.
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When you climb up a ladder, you...begin at the bottom...ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top...so it is with the principles of the Gospel--you must begin with the first...go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world. Joseph Smith
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#43 TomesD

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 04:32 PM

I suppose there is some logic from moving from the Farm to the Field.


That's FAIR to say...
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#44 Cobalt-70

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 01:05 AM

What about these:
  • Department of Apologetic Investigations and Research near the "Y" (DAIRY)
  • True Apologetic Path Institute of Religious Studies (TAPIRS)
  • Center for Unorthodox Readings of Egyptian Letters on Obscure Metal Scriptures (CURELOMS)

Edited by Cobalt-70, 26 June 2012 - 01:36 AM.

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#45 Bryce Haymond

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 04:47 PM

Great ideas everyone! Those of you who support the original mission and vision of FARMS as a scholarly apologetic institution, and want to see it live on in some form, we've organized a support organization which you can learn about and join at the following links. Here we will keep everyone in the loop, and help spread the word:

http://RestoreFARMS.com/
http://www.facebook.com/RestoreFARMS
http://www.templestu...t-organization/
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#46 ringringring

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 11:55 AM

I think that, initially at least, the wisest and most economical thing would be to produce an online-only journal. That's where the future is anyway. It would avoid the expense of printing, bookbinding, distribution etc. An attractive PDF or e-book version could be published for download to tablets, e-book readers, smartphones, iPods and other devices

Later, when it is on firm financial footing and a loyal following has been established, perhaps a hard-copy edition could be produced, if there is still a demand for such a thing by then.

Thereafter, this successor could branch out into the publication of other scholarly journals and books.

Maybe some of us (like me) who can't afford to bankroll it could contribute in other ways. I have skills in proofreading and fact checking, for example, and I would donate my labor at no charge.


A loyal following, volunteers, and money won't make a new FARMS reputable. How will you build a reputation as premier tier academic journal without the backing of an academy?
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#47 ringringring

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 11:58 AM

I suspect that FARMS will not have the momentum needed to resurrect itself. Why not join forces with Dr. Bradford, make truces, and help shape the new, BYU-backed Maxwell Institute?

Seems like the most likely "winner" in this battle.
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#48 William Schryver

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 12:25 PM

I suspect that FARMS will not have the momentum needed to resurrect itself. Why not join forces with Dr. Bradford, make truces, and help shape the new, BYU-backed Maxwell Institute?

Seems like the most likely "winner" in this battle.

Ain't gonna happen.
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#49 calmoriah

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 01:08 PM

Why not join forces with Dr. Bradford

Dr. Bradford dismissed Dr. Peterson. I am not sure how you think Dr. Peterson and others can "help shape" whatever Dr. Bradford has in mind when Dr. Bradford has cut off the very influence that would be needed.
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When you climb up a ladder, you...begin at the bottom...ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top...so it is with the principles of the Gospel--you must begin with the first...go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world. Joseph Smith
UMW forever!

#50 Pahoran

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 01:19 PM

I suspect that FARMS will not have the momentum needed to resurrect itself. Why not join forces with Dr. Bradford, make truces, and help shape the new, BYU-backed Maxwell Institute?

Seems like the most likely "winner" in this battle.

Here's the thing, ringringring.

The problem is not that Bradford wants to do things differently; the problem is that he wants to do different things.

Here is a parable.

Once there was a city that had no fire department. A group of public-spirited citizens banded together, bought a good second-hand fire appliance, began training together, and pretty soon had a rather good working volunteer fire brigade.

There was in that same city a loosely affiliated group of semi-professional arsonists. Naturally, they were angered by the appearance of the volunteer brigade. They began opposing its activities, muttering loudly that the fire brigade demolished more buildings than it saved, and that bystanders at fires sometimes got wet.

Nevertheless, most of the citizens appreciated the work of the brigade, and eventually the mayor of the town approached the volunteers and invited them to come under the umbrella of the city administration. The volunteers at first resisted these overtures, but eventually they agreed, and the new fire department was constituted, under the oversight of the deparment of Parks and Gardens.

Time passed, as it always does. The arsonists stepped up their campaign of disinformation. A new mayor was elected. The fire department increasingly came under the control of Parks and Gardens people who wanted more resources to beautify the city by planting flowering shrubs. Some of these listened to the murmurings of the arsonists, not realising their true source. Eventually they succeeded in getting rid of the original fire chief and began to divert the resources of the former fire brigade to their pet garden projects.

Bradford is a wannabe gardener who has been put in charge of a fire brigade and has no idea how to run one. So he's disbanding it and turning it into yet another gardening outfit instead.

Both firefighters and gardeners have their place; and apparently only Bradford is unable to see that. To join forces with Bradford means to leave off fighting fires, including life-threatening ones, and only plant flowering shrubs.

Regards,
Pahoran

Edited by Pahoran, 01 July 2012 - 02:40 PM.

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(1) Honest. (2) Well-informed. (3) Denying that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been a Christian institution without interruption from the beginning of its history.

A critic may choose any two of the above three. Choose wisely.

#51 William Schryver

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 01:26 PM

Here's the thing, ringringring.

The problem is not that Bradford wants to do things differently; the problem is that he wants to do different things.

Here is a parable.

Once there was a city that had no fire department. A group of public-spirited citizens banded together, bought a good second-hand fire appliance, began training together, and pretty soon had a rather good working volunteer fire brigade.

There was in that same city a loosely affiliated group of semi-professional arsonists. Naturally, they were angered by the appearance of the volunteer firefighters. They began opposing its activities, muttering loudly that the fire brigade demolished more buildings than it saved, and that bystanders at fires sometimes got wet.

Nevertheless, most of the citizens appreciated the work of the brigade, and eventually the mayor of the town approached the volunteers and invited them to come under the umbrella of the city administration. The volunteers at first resisted these overtures, but eventually they agreed, and the new fire department was constituted, under the oversight of the deparment of Parks and Gardens.

Time passed, as it always does. The arsonists stepped up their campaign of disinformation. A new mayor was elected. The fire department increasingly came under the control of Parks and Gardens people who wanted more resources to beautify the city by planting flowering shrubs. Some of these listened to the murmurings of the arsonists, not realising their true source. Eventually they succeeded in getting rid of the original fire chief and began to divert the resources of the former fire brigade to their pet garden projects.

Bradford is a wannabe gardener who has been put in charge of a fire brigade and has no idea how to run one. So he's disbanding it and turning it into yet another gardening outfit instead.

Both firefighters and gardeners have their place; and apparently only Bradford is unable to see that. To join forces with Bradford means to leave off fighting fires, including life-threatening ones, and only plant flowering shrubs.

Regards,
Pahoran

Brother Pahoran:

Well done!

:good:
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#52 Bryce Haymond

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 01:42 PM

And Bradford said, "We want a shrubbery!"

Well done Pahoran. :good:
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"Latter-day Saints believe that their temple ordinances are as old as the human race and represent a primordial revealed religion that has passed through alternate phases of apostasy and restoration which have left the world littered with the scattered fragments of the original structure, some more and some less recognizable, but all badly damaged and out of proper context . . ." - Hugh Nibley

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#53 William Schryver

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 01:48 PM

And Bradford said, "We want a shrubbery!"

Well done Pahoran. :good:


A shrubbery? :shok:
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#54 CASteinman

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 01:57 PM

A loyal following, volunteers, and money won't make a new FARMS reputable. How will you build a reputation as premier tier academic journal without the backing of an academy?


How did they do it before they had any connection with BYU? Back in those days they did their BEST work.
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#55 ringringring

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 01:59 PM

Ain't gonna happen.


Are you able to answer authoritatively on this matter? I am puzzled by your confidence.
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#56 ringringring

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 02:05 PM

Here's the thing, ringringring.

The problem is not that Bradford wants to do things differently; the problem is that he wants to do different things.


I am not certain why doing different things prevents new alliances from being built.

Bradford is a wannabe gardener who has been put in charge of a fire brigade and has no idea how to run one. So he's disbanding it and turning it into yet another gardening outfit instead.

Both firefighters and gardeners have their place; and apparently only Bradford is unable to see that. To join forces with Bradford means to leave off fighting fires, including life-threatening ones, and only plant flowering shrubs.


If you count producing scholarly work as "planting flowers". This seems a mean-spirited thing to say of Dr. Bradford. Have you met him? Do you know him to be a one-dimensional human being?

I think that Dr. Peterson, Dr. Hamblin, and others could contribute greatly. Perhaps their ability to contribute to the religious academic world is not fully developed (after all, neither can claim their fields of expertise to be at such a level to do proper academic work on the subject of religion), but they could contribute in an editorial capacity.

In fact, if they extended the olive branch, that may help mend a rift that is rocking the very institute that they love.
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#57 calmoriah

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 02:09 PM

Do you know him to be a one-dimensional human being?

Nothing has been said about him being "one-dimensional". What is being discussed is how he has removed the apologetic dimension from the FARMS/Mormon Studies Review, making it less dimensional and neglecting one of the dimensions that it was created for and BYU committed to support when FARMS became part of MI.
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When you climb up a ladder, you...begin at the bottom...ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top...so it is with the principles of the Gospel--you must begin with the first...go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world. Joseph Smith
UMW forever!

#58 calmoriah

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 02:10 PM

neither can claim their fields of expertise to be at such a level to do proper academic work on the subject of religion

So you don't see their past work on the Book of Mormon having anything to do with the study of religion? You don't see Dr. Peterson's past publication on Islam as having anything to do with the study of religion? Or Dr. Hamblin's paper on "Aspects of an Early Christian Initiation Ritual" as working in the area the subject of religion?

but they could contribute in an editorial capacity

How can they when this is the very position that Dr. Bradford from which dismissed Dr. Peterson and the other editors?

Edited by calmoriah, 01 July 2012 - 02:15 PM.

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When you climb up a ladder, you...begin at the bottom...ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top...so it is with the principles of the Gospel--you must begin with the first...go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world. Joseph Smith
UMW forever!

#59 blackstrap

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 02:16 PM

Speaking of flowers..... You might like to meet George Bush....and his wife Rose....and his son Am.. I'm sure there is a connection there somewhere. :crazy:
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#60 nealr

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 02:37 PM

I noticed earlier in the conversation some folks were suggesting new acronyms for a FARMS-like group, so I thought I'd offer my own suggestion:

ARMED = Apologetic Research for Mormon Education and Defense.
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