252 replies to this topic

[why me]

Cushan Rishathaim, on 22 June 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

What happens if you learn that this decision (whatever mistakes were made in its carrying out) was influenced by much higher authorities?  Will you call for a picket line at Church headquarters, or perhaps local Ward meeting houses?

Yes I would. No one should be fired by email in the way that this was done to someone who has just lost a loved one. And if the church was behind it, so much the worse. But the church was not behind it and if they were they would never have condoned an email firing of Dan. At least I hope not.

[why me]

calmoriah, on 22 June 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

http://www.patheos.c...expression.html

I never said that Dan should lead the picket line or the petition drive. But his friends and supporters can. Now that it is in the press, the reputation of MI is already on thin ice. And when it comes out just what happened, the ice will crack. But people can still voice their opinions and defend the just against the unjust.

[Analytics]

jwhitlock, on 22 June 2012 - 04:14 PM, said:

And here you go again attacking Dan.

Dan has clearly explained that the very purpose of the FARMS Review was to provide provocative reviews, and he has repeatedly defended his position that delving into the authors and their motives is fair game.  My point is merely that apologetics doesn't have to be that way.

[calmoriah]

why me, on 22 June 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

I never said that Dan should lead the picket line or the petition drive. But his friends and supporters can. Now that it is in the press, the reputation of MI is already on thin ice. And when it comes out just what happened, the ice will crack. But people can still voice their opinions and defend the just against the unjust.

So you are just going to ignore his desire for the Institute or the University not to be further injured?

[Cushan Rishathaim]

why me, on 22 June 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

Yes I would. No one should be fired by email in the way that this was done to someone who has just lost a loved one. And if the church was behind it, so much the worse. But the church was not behind it and if they were they would never have condoned an email firing of Dan. At least I hope not.

I guarantee that the General Authorities of the Church are aware of this matter.  I think you should leave the issue to them.  If you no longer wish to subscribe to the Institute's publications, purchase their books, etc. that's your decision, but as of 1997, FARMS became an official Church institution and even though both they and oftentimes "middle managers" make mistakes, I believe we should trust our leaders to do the right thing without formal picket lines, etc.

Edited by Cushan Rishathaim, 22 June 2012 - 04:42 PM.

[calmoriah]

zerinus, on 22 June 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:

Why are you calling it "dismissal"? In the Church we give people "callings,"

This was not in church, but in a university setting.

[Bill Hamblin]

Dan's public response to his dismissal.

http://www.patheos.c...expression.html

[Bob Crockett]

This is just getting worse.  People I have admired for years could seriously use some PR help right now.

[bluebell]

Bill Hamblin, on 22 June 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

Dan's public response to his dismissal.

http://www.patheos.c...expression.html

A classy response-good for him.

Whatever is happening at MI and whoever is behind it, the way it was handled is embarrassing to the one who handled it.  It was cowardly and immature.  Someone should have manned up.

[calmoriah]

bluebell, on 22 June 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

A classy response-good for him.

Whatever is happening at MI and whoever is behind it, the way it was handled is embarrassing to the one who handled it.  It was cowardly and immature.  Someone should have manned up.

It is remarkable what saying "look, I made a mistake and I'm sorry" can accomplish.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

With how this mishandling went from bad to worse- I would almost think that Mr. Bradford is intentionally trying to destroy MI.

[bluebell]

calmoriah, on 22 June 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

It is remarkable what saying "look, I made a mistake and I'm sorry" can accomplish.

So true.

The hardest words to say are usually the ones that will actually do the most good.

[calmoriah]

BookofMormonLuvr, on 22 June 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

With how this mishandling went from bad to worse- I would almost think that Mr. Bradford is intentionally trying to destroy MI.

That would sabotage his own career as well.  I doubt he is that devious or stupid.

[ERayR]

calmoriah, on 22 June 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

That would sabotage his own career as well.  I doubt he is that devious or stupid.

Devious yes.  The jury is still out on the other charge.

Oops repent you heathen. I will I will give me a chance.

[William Schryver]

Analytics, on 22 June 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

No. All I know is that in the judment of the MI's director (which we now know does in fact have the full support of BYU), the article wasn't suitable for publication in Mormon Stories Review.  I know that the people who have read it and would like to see it published have been talking about the need to call out wolves in sheep's clothing.  Do you think I'm putting the pieces together incorrectly?  It seems pretty obvious to me what's going on here.

I have read the article.  It does not contain a single ad hominem element in its 100+ pages.

It is a very important article that ought to have been published yesterday.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

calmoriah, on 22 June 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

That would sabotage his own career as well.  I doubt he is that devious or stupid.

Never underestimate the power of a mortal man to sabotage his own life.

[calmoriah]

ERayR, on 22 June 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

Devious yes.  The jury is still out on the other charge.

Oops repent you heathen. I will I will give me a chance.

Honestly the whole emailing while at a 'safe' distance and not speaking to other editors before making public announcement and other noncommunication, he reminds me of someone else whose main problem was he just didn't like handling confrontation/conflict.  Didn't want to argue with people, so just preempted any chance that they could do it.  Of course in the long run, it created more conflict, but if that could be handed off to others to deal with, he didn't mind that.  I may be completely wrong in connecting the two individuals with as little of info that I have, but at this point it's a possibility to me.

[calmoriah]

BookofMormonLuvr, on 22 June 2012 - 05:34 PM, said:

Never underestimate the power of a mortal man to sabotage his own life.

Unfortunately I have seen that too often.  Generally not intentionally though.

[mapman]

This is all very bewildering and embarrassing.  I have enjoyed reading FARMS/MI publications since I was a kid and some of Bro. Peterson's articles in particular I have enjoyed.  I feel bad because I am sure that there are lots of people feeling terrible right now.  I hope that things can end up being resolved in some way and that the MI will continue to publish quality work.  I think that it served an important place in producing scholarly work concerned with the ancient world and scriptures and as far as I can tell this will still be part of their work.  I admit that I do not enjoy reading scholarly work for its apologetic value that much, but I recognize that it serves an important function so hopefully FAIR or some other organization can carry on what the FARMS Review used to do.

[Analytics]

BookofMormonLuvr, on 22 June 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

With how this mishandling went from bad to worse- I would almost think that Mr. Bradford is intentionally trying to destroy MI.

True enough, but by the same token the way Hamblin and Peterson have publically responded seems to be intended for the same destroy it also.  It's like they are saying, "While I would never say nor do anything to harm the Maxwell Institute, let me tell you about all of the rotten things they did to me.  I love the MI and hope it does well, but its new course is a disaster and its director is a mean apostate-lover.  While I'd hate for it to happen, I fear they are going to lose all of their subscribers (to cancel your subscription, please call 1-800-327-6715 between 8:30 and 5:00 MDT, or send an email to [email protected])."