252 replies to this topic

[why me]

It is now time to fight back. I think that the people on this forum who live in the area of the maxwell institute should begin a picket line. And voice their disdain for such treatment. It is obvious that certain people wish to destroy the journal. Time to raise our voices and claim the initiative.

[wenglund]

William Schryver, on 22 June 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

Mormon Studies Review Editor Selection Committee, 2012:

I can't tell....are there any moderators from this board in that picture? (just kidding)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[why me]

Bill Hamblin, on 22 June 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

This just up on the MI news:

http://maxwellinstit...d=150&type=news







I note, for the record, that none of the editors except Dan has had any direct communication with Bradford about this decision.  They were never informed that they have been dismissed.  Indeed, Lou Midgley is out of the country on vacation, and does not have internet access, and has no idea what's going on.  Even if this change is a good idea, treating people this way, after years of service, is simply shameful.

And may I add that a editorial boycott should be in place by lds academics and scholars. People should not support such underhanded tactics.

[calmoriah]

why me, on 22 June 2012 - 03:11 PM, said:

It is now time to fight back. I think that the people on this forum who live in the area of the maxwell institute should begin a picket line. And voice their disdain for such treatment. It is obvious that certain people wish to destroy the journal. Time to raise our voices and claim the initiative.

No.  Whatever occurs should be done with respect for the Church as it is what funds and oversees the MI.  The last thing that Dan and others involved probably want is anything that trashes the reputation of the institute they have worked to build up over the years.  Before anything is done, wait to hear from those who have actually suffered from the actions of Brother Bradford to see what they want.  They may just want to handled it in their own way, in their own time and the worse thing that could be done is for someone from the outside to get things even more contentious.

Quote

It is obvious that certain people wish to destroy the journal.

And what you are considering doing is likely to do more damage.

I highly doubt that Brother Bradford or anyone who works for him wants to destroy the Journal.  They just want to take it in the direction they want as opposed to where it has been in the past.  This is not a bad thing in and of itself, as Bill stated.  What was wrong is the ineffective management actions and that can be addressed without overreacting and calling for a strike, etc.

Edited by calmoriah, 22 June 2012 - 03:19 PM.

[ERayR]

Duncan, on 22 June 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

I am wondering what brought on all these dismissals on and what brought on Dr. Peterson's termination? I just wondering if I missed a post or something because it seems to have come out of no where. As I said I have nothing but the utmost respect for Bro. Peterson!

Being in the forefront of the battle is a dangerous place and Dan was in the forefront of the battle.

[why me]

calmoriah, on 22 June 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

No.  Whatever occurs should be done with respect for the Church as it is what funds and oversees the MI.  The last thing that Dan and others involved probably want is anything that trashes the reputation of the institute they have worked to build up over the years.  Before anything is done, wait to hear from those who have actually suffered from the actions of Brother Bradford to see what they want.  They may just want to handled it in their own way, in their own time and the worse thing that could be done is for someone from the outside to get things even more contentious.

And what you are considering doing is likely to do more damage.

I highly doubt that Brother Bradford or anyone who works for him wants to destroy the Journal.  They just want to take it in the direction they want as opposed to where it has been in the past.  This is not a bad thing in and of itself, as Bill stated.  What was wrong is the ineffective management actions and that can be addressed without overreacting and calling for a strike, etc.

I don't think so. A picket line can be quite good. How should one fight injustice and unfairness? it is not the church but an academic institution that has committed the injustice. The way that this institution has fired dan and the board is unbecoming of an institution that claims to be lds.

[why me]

calmoriah, on 22 June 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

I highly doubt that Brother Bradford or anyone who works for him wants to destroy the Journal.  They just want to take it in the direction they want as opposed to where it has been in the past.  This is not a bad thing in and of itself, as Bill stated.  What was wrong is the ineffective management actions and that can be addressed without overreacting and calling for a strike, etc.

The way in which all this was done certainly doesn't enhance the reputation of the journal or the institute. What academic would now want to sit on this new board after such a treatment of the editor and the board?

[calmoriah]

Duncan, on 22 June 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

I am wondering what brought on all these dismissals on and what brought on Dr. Peterson's termination? I just wondering if I missed a post or something because it seems to have come out of no where. As I said I have nothing but the utmost respect for Bro. Peterson!

Duncan, the explanation given by Brother Bradford was the delay in publication of the Review and some of the suitability of the articles.  What caused the delays was not specified, it appears that Brother Bradford disagrees with any apologetic writings which have been consistent fare in the Review in the past and which the other editors would have been involved in.  He apparently desires for the Review to be primarily academic, making a (faulty imo) distinction between academics and apologetics.

See Dr. Hamblin's post at the beginning of the thread here:  http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/58099-my-assessment-of-the-situation-at-the-maxwell-institute/#entry1209133861

[calmoriah]

why me, on 22 June 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

The way in which all this was done certainly doesn't enhance the reputation of the journal or the institute. What academic would now want to sit on this new board after such a treatment of the editor and the board?

Given all that, why make it worse?  Wait and see how those actually affected by the turnover want to respond.

[why me]

ERayR, on 22 June 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

Being in the forefront of the battle is a dangerous place and Dan was in the forefront of the battle.

The problem is: Dan did not realize that he was engaged in a two front battle. He may have thought that the Institution was at least on his side. It is only when someone is 'ambushed' from behind, without warning, that one feels cheated and emotionally abused.

[why me]

calmoriah, on 22 June 2012 - 03:27 PM, said:

Given all that, why make it worse?  Wait and see how those actually affected by the turnover want to respond.

Hopefully, at least by drawing up a petition. An example needs to be set so this doesn't happen again. I think that Brother Bradford needs to feel some pressure for the actions that he has done.

[calmoriah]

why me, on 22 June 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

I don't think so. A picket line can be quite good. How should one fight injustice and unfairness? it is not the church but an academic institution that has committed the injustice. The way that this institution has fired dan and the board is unbecoming of an institution that claims to be lds.

And making a big display about a division among church members will make great press benefitting no one by those who sell the news.

I agree it is an academic institution, but first and foremost BYU is a representative of the Church.  Its reputation affects the Church's reputation.  It is not your right to decide for those who are injured by this action what to do about it.  

Do you have an actual subscription to the Journal?  Feel free to cancel it making clear your dislike of the new direction, but it is the right of those who were fired to determine anything that is done, not you, on their behalf.  You don't want to do more damage to them by mistake.

[calmoriah]

why me, on 22 June 2012 - 03:27 PM, said:

The problem is: Dan did not realize that he was engaged in a two front battle. He may have thought that the Institution was at least on his side. It is only when someone is 'ambushed' from behind, without warning, that one feels cheated and emotionally abused.

I don't think Dan is that naive, even if caught off guard by the timing of it.  As Dr. Hamblin states, this has been going on for almost a decade.

[calmoriah]

why me, on 22 June 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

Hopefully, at least by drawing up a petition. An example needs to be set so this doesn't happen again. I think that Brother Bradford needs to feel some pressure for the actions that he has done.

If you are going to insist on doing something dramatic, at least clear it with Dan first so you don't sabotage any efforts he is making to right things.

[maxrep12]

why me, on 22 June 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

And may I add that a editorial boycott should be in place by lds academics and scholars. People should not support such underhanded tactics.

To boycott the underhanded tactics of the last editorial consortium, or the new one? Is the former or the latter squeaky clean? Who are the good guys and who are the bad guys?

[why me]

calmoriah, on 22 June 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

And making a big display about a division among church members will make great press benefitting no one by those who sell the news.

On the upside it would show that we are not a cult where we all fellow the leader. We have are own minds and we believe in justice in the face of injustice. And we defend our own.

What would Joseph Smith do? He was quite a firebrand. But I don't see him taking it on the chin.

[ERayR]

calmoriah, on 22 June 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

And making a big display about a division among church members will make great press benefitting no one by those who sell the news.

I agree it is an academic institution, but first and foremost BYU is a representative of the Church.  Its reputation affects the Church's reputation.  It is not your right to decide for those who are injured by this action what to do about it.  

Do you have an actual subscription to the Journal?  Feel free to cancel it making clear your dislike of the new direction, but it is the right of those who were fired to determine anything that is done, not you, on their behalf.  You don't want to do more damage to them by mistake.

At this point I am not advocating a picket type protest but I can see where why me is coming from.  The question is, is it worse to show the world we are against injustice where ever it happens or to let our actions indicate we condone what has happened.  I, like you think we should wait a short while to see what direction those involved decide to take.

[why me]

maxrep12, on 22 June 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

To boycott the underhanded tactics of the last editorial consortium, or the new one? Is the former or the latter squeaky clean? Who are the good guys and who are the bad guys?

A blanket purge in the way that it was done is not the way a church institution should behave. I don't see any decency in the way this was handled. In fact, just the opposite. But I do see this in the business world where such tactics are commonplace.

[smac97]

Peggy Stack and the Salt Lake Tribune have weighed in:

http://www.sltrib.co...tudies.html.csp

-Smac

[why me]

ERayR, on 22 June 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

At this point I am not advocating a picket type protest but I can see where why me is coming from.  The question is, is it worse to show the world we are against injustice where ever it happens or to let our actions indicate we condone what has happened.  I, like you think we should wait a short while to see what direction those involved decide to take.

Lets hope for a fight back. Silence in such cases never changes the injustice. I think that Brother Bradford needs to listen to Melanie sing 'Beautiful People'.



And maybe learn something from the words.