28 replies to this topic

[blackstrap]

What would you as a bishop,YM/YW leader,RS president,say if your SP told you to contact all the people on the "do not contact" list. ?Such a list is not sacrosanct but is more harm than good to be accomplished by this contacting? I do know of one stake where the Elder's presidency was instructed to go the totally inactive people and ask them if they wanted their names removed? Surprisingly few went for it.I personally do not find it totally unacceptable to ask someone to be either hot or cold as per the scripture.

[Anteojito]

I doubt that anything good would come from doing something like that.

[rpn]

I would seek inspiration confirming the direction.  And if I didn't get it, I would seek to identify people who the Lord did want me to once again contact, and I would report to my leader that I had tried to get spiritual confirmation and had not and that I had asked for specific names to contact and received inspiration to do ___________________________.

I think asking a family periodically if they wanted contact again is a good thing, because circumstances change.  But it would be good if the bishop told members when they first asked, that the ward would at some point come asking again, in case they change their minds, so it won't come as a betrayal of what was promised.

[BCSpace]

I would simply say to the inactive person if they balk at the visitation that we will periodically double-check in case of a change of heart or if anything is needed by the member.  We say the Church is true, therefore we have to also act and assume as if it is true; that these people are in danger of loosing their salvation or perhaps worse if previously endowed.  I knew a Stake President once who, on the visits with the Ward leadership prior to Ward Conference, would challenge every inactive visited in those terms.  Seemed to work in many cases.

"I see your wife is pregnant.  Do you plan on blessing your baby or will someone else have to do it?" is a very famous case in our Stake where the parents became active and have stayed that way so far.

As for asking them if they want their names removed, I'm all for it.  It's been done before and as you can see, most don't want to.  They have to be periodically challenged and if such results in name removal, it's likely not the challenger's fault.

Edited by BCSpace, 19 June 2012 - 07:26 PM.

[Duncan]

Our ward is cleaning up the records and we are sending the elders over to visit people. Some people don't want the visit but all so far don't want their names removed either so I dunno! I had success on my mission visiting the DNC list

[kolipoki09]

blackstrap, on 19 June 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

What would you as a bishop,YM/YW leader,RS president,say if your SP told you to contact all the people on the "do not contact" list. ?Such a list is not sacrosanct but is more harm than good to be accomplished by this contacting? I do know of one stake where the Elder's presidency was instructed to go the totally inactive people and ask them if they wanted their names removed? Surprisingly few went for it.I personally do not find it totally unacceptable to ask someone to be either hot or cold as per the scripture.

There was a time during my mission when the Bishop overseeing the area where I served gave us a list of people to visit. He told us they were all less-active, and he wanted us to just "check up" on them to make sure they were doing alright, and to see if any had moved out of the area. It was a welcome alternative to tracting, and increased our chances of coming into contact with part-member families (where a significant number of "convert" baptisms in the United States come from). We were not told that it was the Do Not Contact list until a new Bishop was called a few weeks later and we reported to him with what information we had gathered. It was quite frankly one of the most discouraging and anxiety-filled parts of my mission, with approximately ten percent of the entire congregation wanting no contact at all. Some were polite, expressing disdain more toward individual ward members rather than the Church as an organization. Others were quite upset at "all things Mormon" and didn't shy away from expressing that frustration.

I don't think it's a bad idea to update the DNC list every few years, though I think it is something better-suited for an Elders Quorum or High Priests Quorum blitz on a Sunday evening. Just assign each companionship two or three names and get it over with in an hour or two. I would then suggest creating an informal write-up (such as a Progress Record) briefly describing the nature of each visit, which then could be handed over to the Bishop, the Relief Society President, and the Elders Quorum President. That way there's no confusion and it's all formatted and easily accessible.

[Mudcat]

blackstrap, on 19 June 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

What would you as a bishop,YM/YW leader,RS president,say if your SP told you to contact all the people on the "do not contact" list. ?Such a list is not sacrosanct but is more harm than good to be accomplished by this contacting? I do know of one stake where the Elder's presidency was instructed to go the totally inactive people and ask them if they wanted their names removed? Surprisingly few went for it.I personally do not find it totally unacceptable to ask someone to be either hot or cold as per the scripture.

Dunno where you SP is coming from with that. I am not LDS, but am trying to fit it into my perspective.

I think of Christ's teachings... (quoted from ESV, Matthew 18: 12-14)

What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go in search of the one that went astray? And if he finds it, truly, I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine that never went astray.

So it is not the will of my Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.

[Freedom]

There is no such thing as a no-contact list. It is all based on rumor and third party opinions. My no-contact list as a minister in the church is called a non-member. If your name is on the list, you need to be contacted from time to time. On a list of 100, each year one will say yes. Those who don't like it will take their names off the list. Those who complain still want to keep in touch, they just don't know how to express themselves.

[kolipoki09]

Freedom, on 19 June 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

There is no such thing as a no-contact list.

As a matter of formal records in MLS, I've never seen a file for them. However, ward/branch leaders can -- and often do -- compile lists of individuals living in their boundaries who have expressed that they receive no contact.

Freedom, on 19 June 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

It is all based on rumor and third party opinions.

Or people telling their home/visiting teachers that they don't want them coming around anymore. One of the purposes of the Home Teaching program is to quite literally "return and report" on the general welfare of fellow ward/branch members. It's often information that comes directly to the Bishop or Branch President from the DNC's themselves -- at least that's been my own experience.

Freedom, on 19 June 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

My no-contact list as a minister in the church is called a non-member.

So you don't proselytize to non-members?

Freedom, on 19 June 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

If your name is on the list, you need to be contacted from time to time. On a list of 100, each year one will say yes. Those who don't like it will take their names off the list. Those who complain still want to keep in touch, they just don't know how to express themselves.

I though you said there was no such thing as a DNC list?

[Freedom]

kolipoki09, on 19 June 2012 - 09:17 PM, said:

As a matter of formal records in MLS, I've never seen a file for them. However, ward/branch leaders can -- and often do -- compile lists of individuals living in their boundaries who have expressed that they receive no contact.

Or people telling their home/visiting teachers that they don't want them coming around anymore. One of the purposes of the Home Teaching program is to quite literally "return and report" on the general welfare of fellow ward/branch members. It's often information that comes directly to the Bishop or Branch President from the DNC's themselves -- at least that's been my own experience.

The issue is often that people rush to judgement or the message gets muddled. Often I have visited these 'do not contact' people and they were very happy to be visited, they just didn't want religion pushed on them.

Quote

So you don't proselytize to non-members?

There is a three fold mission of the church. one of them is perfect the saints. As a minister to the saints I do not minister to non-members because they are not, of course, members. Missionary work is a different field of focus.

Quote

I though you said there was no such thing as a DNC list?

There isn't one, and i don't treat it as one. It is an adhoc list that warrants greater effort and energy. Nobody should ever have a 'no-contact list'. It is, in my opinion, contrary to the principles of the gospel. As has been quoted, the further they are from the fold, the more effort must be expended to find them and bring them back.

[Storm Rider]

A no contact list is a very real list and reflects the wishes of individuals within the ward boundaries.  One of the biggest problems is not respecting the list or in setting inappropriate standards in the minds of those who have asked to not be contacted.  A few things I have learned along the way:

• If someone asks not to be contacted after a frank conversation of their degree of interest in Jesus Christ and his gospel, then respect their choice.  Inform the bishop and the EC about their wishes and make sure that all abide.
  
• The individual must understand that periodically, hopefully no more than once per year, someone will stop by just to make sure all is okay.  Please accept the visit and politley inform them of your wishes.
  
• Quarterly mail out a very short gospel message.  The individual should know that this will be done in advance; he can can it or read it and don't be offended by the efforts of others to care for their spiritual lives.
  
• DON'T VISIT THEM; RESPECT THE REQUEST.  The only out is a very strong spritual direction to do otherwise.  This does not include some niffty plan by the bishop or ward mission leader to send out the missionaries every quarter just to check and make sure they still aren't interested.  You want to tick someone off; ignore their requests.
  
• When visiting, don't forget that humor is really helpful.  It is okay that someone's spiritual path is not the same as others and is taking different turns.  Support them in their choice and in serving in any other way that they feel is acceptable.

God does not forget the sparrow and he does not forget these individuals either.  They will learn their lessons at their own speed and we cannot drive their bus and we should not try.

[sunstoned]

As a missionary I was given a list by the local Bishop and asked to make contact with as many on the list as possible.  One of the questions I was ask was if they wanted their names removed from the rolls of the church.  I recall visiting with over 15 people.  Some were nice, most were civil, some annoyed, but none wanted their names removed.

[Tacenda]

sunstoned, on 19 June 2012 - 11:24 PM, said:

As a missionary I was given a list by the local Bishop and asked to make contact with as many on the list as possible.  One of the questions I was ask was if they wanted their names removed from the rolls of the church.  I recall visiting with over 15 people.  Some were nice, most were civil, some annoyed, but none wanted their names removed.

I think there are reasons they do not want their names removed.  It's called shunning. Be it from their family members, employers/co-workers, friends & neighbors.  And it's extremely difficult for people that live in the Mormon corridor.  There are consequences to removing your name.

[Storm Rider]

Tacenda, on 20 June 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:

I think there are reasons they do not want their names removed.  It's called shunning. Be it from their family members, employers/co-workers, friends & neighbors.  And it's extremely difficult for people that live in the Mormon corridor.  There are consequences to removing your name.

I missed the shunning pamphlet; do you have a copy you could print here.  Oh, you don't have one.  Humm.  Well could you explain if this us unique to social groups in general or just to the LDS Church?  Shunning has a very specific definition in religion; something that does not exist in the LDS Church's doctrines or teachings.  However, it does exist in social groups of all kinds.  This is the type of slur that is so common among certain critics that adds drama and all of the truth of a plug nickel, but don't it feel good to paint the LDS Church with?  Makes me beam with pride when I use this type of slur about anti-Mormons, ignoramuses, etc.

[Tacenda]

Storm Rider, on 20 June 2012 - 07:29 AM, said:

I missed the shunning pamphlet; do you have a copy you could print here.  Oh, you don't have one.  Humm.  Well could you explain if this us unique to social groups in general or just to the LDS Church?  Shunning has a very specific definition in religion; something that does not exist in the LDS Church's doctrines or teachings.  However, it does exist in social groups of all kinds.  This is the type of slur that is so common among certain critics that adds drama and all of the truth of a plug nickel, but don't it feel good to paint the LDS Church with?  Makes me beam with pride when I use this type of slur about anti-Mormons, ignoramuses, etc.

I admit I visit other boards and get all caught up in what they have to say.  One particular one that I read recently is that their friends left them.  All of them, when they came out with unbelief.  This isn't the only one I've read about.  But I get what you're talking about, I shouldn't have used the word "shun".  Maybe "disregard, have nothing to do with" is better.  Some feel they don't want anything like "unbelief" rubbing off on them.  Maybe only those that don't have fool proof testimonies. It happens, I've seen it.  Of course I live around mostly devout people, it's all most people know around my parts.  Heck, I'm struggling and being "shunned" is my greatest fear, if I were to ever leave the church.  Maybe I crossed the line here, or just maybe it might open some eyes out there too.

[Judd]

Tacenda, on 20 June 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

I admit I visit other boards and get all caught up in what they have to say.  One particular one that I read recently is that their friends left them.  All of them, when they came out with unbelief.  This isn't the only one I've read about.  But I get what you're talking about, I shouldn't have used the word "shun".  Maybe "disregard, have nothing to do with" is better.  Some feel they don't want anything like "unbelief" rubbing off on them.  Maybe only those that don't have fool proof testimonies. It happens, I've seen it.  Of course I live around mostly devout people, it's all most people know around my parts.  Heck, I'm struggling and being "shunned" is my greatest fear, if I were to ever leave the church.  Maybe I crossed the line here, or just maybe it might open some eyes out there too.

Consider the other side of the coin. Obviously it's not one-size-fits-all, but, in my experience, those who have distanced themselves from the church withdrawal themselves from other active members. Of course, this could be perceived as being shunned.

[Tacenda]

Judd, on 20 June 2012 - 08:23 AM, said:

Consider the other side of the coin. Obviously it's not one-size-fits-all, but, in my experience, those who have distanced themselves from the church withdrawal themselves from other active members. Of course, this could be perceived as being shunned.

Very true!!  And I can see why they can't leave it alone in other respects too.

[Somebodyz]

Tacenda, on 20 June 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:

I think there are reasons they do not want their names removed.  It's called shunning. Be it from their family members, employers/co-workers, friends & neighbors.  And it's extremely difficult for people that live in the Mormon corridor.  There are consequences to removing your name.

How would most people even know that a person has had their name removed. If a person isn't going to church or having hometeachers round already, I doubt it would make much difference to most friends, work. Once again, the surposed Mormon corridor is very narrow, most saints don't even live in the States, let alone an area with lots of members. So most saints works/friends and family wouldn't be made of just members.
As for being shunned, it's not a church 'thang', but down to individuals ie I was shunned for joining the church...dead to a whole section of my family. Another narrow corridor.

[Garden Girl]

sunstoned, on 19 June 2012 - 11:24 PM, said:

As a missionary I was given a list by the local Bishop and asked to make contact with as many on the list as possible.  One of the questions I was ask was if they wanted their names removed from the rolls of the church.  I recall visiting with over 15 people.  Some were nice, most were civil, some annoyed, but none wanted their names removed.

I'm so thankful no one gave up on me... the several times I moved during my inactive years I would suddenly get a "visit" or call and I knew my dear mom had seen that my records were forwarded.   I was never anti-Church in any way so was always polite and friendly but made known my wishes at that time.  I was a "card/letter" only type of member.  Toward the end of my inactive years I had promptings from the Spirit more and more about returning to Church.  I told my husband I was feeling the need to do so, and he encouraged me... then my mom died suddenly (while I was with her) and that sent me literally running back to the Church.  There was something about looking into her eyes and seeing the light fade and knowing she had passed through the veil that just spun me around... so just over 30 years of inactivity came to an end.  That was 16 years ago, and I'm stronger than ever in the faith...
I never wanted my name removed from the list either... isn't that strange how we who are/were inactive didn't want to make that final break... and it had nothing whatsoever to do with "shunning."

GG

[Tacenda]

Somebodyz, on 20 June 2012 - 08:52 AM, said:

How would most people even know that a person has had their name removed. If a person isn't going to church or having hometeachers round already, I doubt it would make much difference to most friends, work. Once again, the surposed Mormon corridor is very narrow, most saints don't even live in the States, let alone an area with lots of members. So most saints works/friends and family wouldn't be made of just members.
As for being shunned, it's not a church 'thang', but down to individuals ie I was shunned for joining the church...dead to a whole section of my family. Another narrow corridor.

It would definitely get around that you're not a member.  In the ward, to your family, even in the job force.  It will get around by word of mouth.  I've read stories about people losing their jobs.  I've also seen discrimination on Mormons, so it goes both ways.  My husband baptised a Baptist Minister and he owned a business.  When he converted to mormonism he lost his friends and his business.  So it cuts both ways.  I just wish it never happened to anyone.