Raukeeyang, Made Up?

[volgadon]

Raukeeyang, signifying expanse, or the firmament over our heads; but in this case, in relation to this subject, the Egyptians meant it to signify Shaumau, to be high, or the heavens, answering to the Hebrew word, Shaumahyeem.

I guess that would confirm my belief that the word Raukeeyang was completely made up...thanks for clearing that one up for me

Craig Paxton wrote this in another thread. Really? Rakia is perfectly fine Biblical Hebrew for firmament. Raukeeyang is a phonetic transliteration of the Sephardic accent. Rau (as in ha-ha), kee (rhymes with key), ang (an attempt at the guttural ayin sound).

[kolipoki09]

Craig Paxton wrote this in another thread. Really? Rakia is perfectly fine Biblical Hebrew for firmament. Raukeeyang is a phonetic transliteration of the Sephardic accent. Rau (as in ha-ha), kee (rhymes with key), ang (an attempt at the guttural ayin sound).

Don't mind Craig. He was probably reading Fawn Brodie's Hebrew Lexicon. Easy mistake.

[WalkerW]

Don't mind Craig. He was probably reading Fawn Brodie's Hebrew Lexicon. Easy mistake.

Your mom's a Hebrew lexicon...

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Your mom's a Hebrew lexicon...

Lol Nice.

[Craig Paxton]

Craig Paxton wrote this in another thread. Really? Rakia is perfectly fine Biblical Hebrew for firmament. Raukeeyang is a phonetic transliteration of the Sephardic accent. Rau (as in ha-ha), kee (rhymes with key), ang (an attempt at the guttural ayin sound).

Well....Let's be clear... First the made up word Raukeeyang is not Egyptian. If anything it is a Hebrew transliterations — Joseph was studying Hebrew with a Prof. Josuah Seixas at the time he obtained the papyri, and even though Joseph interpreted these figures during the Nauvoo period (after 1838), these transliterations are specifically in Seixas's style.

Secondly, these strokes represent water in which the crocodile swims — which makes sense in this context. If figure #11 is a palace fortification, then these crocodile-infested waters would be a second line of defense against intrusion, keeping the deceased doubly-safe.

I'd like to give credit where credit is due to a sight I can't link to or mention...but any thinking mormon will be able to figure it out...

[selek1]

I'd like to give credit where credit is due to a sight I can't link to or mention...but any thinking mormon will be able to figure it out...

Says the man who ridicules all "visions" as self-induced or made up...

[Craig Paxton]

Says the man who ridicules all "visions" as self-induced or made up...

CFR? Happy to admit to it if true...I just don't recall ever ridicuing all "visions" as self-induced or made up......doesn't mean it hasn't happened however...thats a pretty broad sweeping statement even for me..but if true let's see the CFR and I'll claim it...but I'll throw a crow pie in the oven for you just in case

Edited June 14, 2012 by Craig Paxton

[selek1]

CFR? Happy to admit to it if true...I just don't recall ever ridicuing all "visions" as self-induced or made up......doesn't mean it hasn't happened however...thats a pretty broad sweeping statement even for me..but if true let's see the CFR and I'll claim it...but I'll throw a crow pie in the oven for you just in case

I'm sorry, Craig. I would have thought the pun on "visions" and "sights" would have been apparent even to you....

Unfortunately, answering such a CFR would require that I consider either you or the pun with worthy of any serious engagement.

As I do not, I cannot.

Nor have I any need of a pie, thank you kindly.

As others here can attest, I am a very good cook, and am generally quite careful about what goes into my recipes.

Edited June 14, 2012 by selek1

[Craig Paxton]

I'm sorry, Craig. I would have thought the pun on "visions" and "sights" would have been apparent even to you....

Unfortunately, answering such a CFR would require that I consider either you or the pun with worthy of any serious engagement.

As I do not, I cannot.

Nor have I any need of a pie, thank you kindly.

As others here can attest, I am a very good cook, and am generally quite careful about what goes into my recipes.

I accept your apology

[volgadon]

Well....Let's be clear... First the made up word Raukeeyang is not Egyptian.

Yes, let's be clear. Raukeeyang is not a mad up word, it is in Biblical and subsequent forms of Hebrew.

If anything it is a Hebrew transliterations — Joseph was studying Hebrew with a Prof. Josuah Seixas at the time he obtained the papyri, and even though Joseph interpreted these figures during the Nauvoo period (after 1838), these transliterations are specifically in Seixas's style.

RIght, I said it was Hebrew, as is shaumayeem.

Secondly, these strokes represent water in which the crocodile swims — which makes sense in this context. If figure #11 is a palace fortification, then these crocodile-infested waters would be a second line of defense against intrusion, keeping the deceased doubly-safe.

I'd like to give credit where credit is due to a sight I can't link to or mention...but any thinking mormon will be able to figure it out...

I take it you've never heard of the cosmic water.

[Bill Hamblin]

Well....Let's be clear... First the made up word Raukeeyang is not Egyptian. If anything it is a Hebrew transliterations — Joseph was studying Hebrew with a Prof. Josuah Seixas at the time he obtained the papyri, and even though Joseph interpreted these figures during the Nauvoo period (after 1838), these transliterations are specifically in Seixas's style.

Secondly, these strokes represent water in which the crocodile swims — which makes sense in this context. If figure #11 is a palace fortification, then these crocodile-infested waters would be a second line of defense against intrusion, keeping the deceased doubly-safe.

I'd like to give credit where credit is due to a sight I can't link to or mention...but any thinking mormon will be able to figure it out...

Please quit embarrassing yourself. You simply don't know what you're talking about, even if you get your information from anonymous anti-Mormon sites (not sights).

[Robert F. Smith]

Well....Let's be clear... First the made up word Raukeeyang is not Egyptian. If anything it is a Hebrew transliterations — Joseph was studying Hebrew with a Prof. Josuah Seixas at the time he obtained the papyri, and even though Joseph interpreted these figures during the Nauvoo period (after 1838), these transliterations are specifically in Seixas's style.

So, Craig,

if you already knew that Raukeeyang was a Sephardic style transliteration of a Hebrew word (Book of Abraham facsimile 2:4 "the Hebrew word Raukeeyang"), why would you innocently declare that "Raukeeyang is not Egyptian" or that it is "completely made up"? That is exactly the sort of falsehood that Fawn Brodie declared about Nauvoo -- never bothering to check with a Hebraist, even though her husband was Jewish. Brodie never bothered to apologize for that blatant inaccuracy (among many others).

Secondly, these strokes represent water in which the crocodile swims — which makes sense in this context. If figure #11 is a palace fortification, then these crocodile-infested waters would be a second line of defense against intrusion, keeping the deceased doubly-safe.

Othmar Keel would see cosmic symbolism here, the primeval ocean frequently being indicated by zig-zag lines (facsimile 1:12).* The heavenly “expanse” or “firmament” of heaven is the celestial ocean, and the crocodile reminiscent of “Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers” (Ezk 29:3; = Rahab the dragon in Isa 51:9 ∥I Ne 8:9; Ps 89:10[11]), the KJV term for “dragon” here being Hebrew tannim/tannin = Ugaritic tnn “Tunnan” (a cosmic enemy defeated by Canaanite Anat; Baal Epic CAT 1.3 III 40; KTU 1.6 VI 51).

I'd like to give credit where credit is due to a sight I can't link to or mention...but any thinking mormon will be able to figure it out...

You need to own up to your mistaken calumnies, Craig, and this doesn't quite do it.

* Keel, Symbolism of the Biblical World, 41, figs. 36-38. The representation of waters with the choppy lines is standard in ancient Egyptian (C. Wilkinson & M. Hill, Egyptian Wall Paintings: The Metropolitan Museum of Art’s Collection of Facsimiles [NY, 1983], 40-42, 60-61).

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I'd like to give credit where credit is due to a sight I can't link to or mention...but any thinking mormon will be able to figure it out...

Well, Craig, what is your rebuttal? It simply appears that you were wrong on this one.

[WalkerW]

Surely this is familiar:

Edited June 15, 2012 by WalkerW

[altersteve]

Craig just got schooled.

[cdowis]

Well....Let's be clear... First the made up word Raukeeyang is not Egyptian.

Is "non sequitor" an English phrase? How about "et cetera", or "adieu"? Yep, this is just another adieu argument, according to apologetics.

Remember that Abraham taught the Egyptians astronomy, and it is very very very very possible that he used Hebrew words and phrases for concepts that were foreign to them. The German language is used for philosophy, nicht wahr.

Unfortunately your clever comments do not reflect intelligent thought.

Edited June 15, 2012 by cdowis

[volgadon]

Craig just got schooled.

Walker made Gustave Dore an offer he couldn't refuse.

I am a J-Red theory man myself, but this has got to count for else, else why not, say, a solar chariot?

[volgadon]

Unfortunately your clever comments do not reflect intelligent thought.

I definitely would not go as far as that. I consider Craig's argument demonstrably wrong, but that doesn't make him an idiot incapable of intelligent thought.

[mfbukowski]

Surely this is familiar:

Exactly!

[cdowis]

I definitely would not go as far as that. I consider Craig's argument demonstrably wrong, but that doesn't make him an idiot incapable of intelligent thought.

"idiot" == You are putting words in my mouth, and I find your comment insulting, . My assumption is that all of us are equally intelligent.

I could use the same phrase to describe some of my own posts -- to use clever words instead of using intelligent thought makes for a silly (e.g. "adieu") argument, but is no reflection on the individual

Edited June 16, 2012 by cdowis

[volgadon]

"idiot" == You are putting words in my mouth, and I find your comment insulting, . My assumption is that all of us are equally intelligent.

I could use the same phrase to describe some of my own posts -- to use clever words instead of using intelligent thought makes for a silly (e.g. "adieu") argument, but is no reflection on the individual

Pleeze stop putting words in my mouth.

thankyousoverymuch

I apologise, but your post came across as very insulting, in just that tenor.

[volgadon]

So, Craig,

if you already knew that Raukeeyang was a Sephardic style transliteration of a Hebrew word (Book of Abraham facsimile 2:4 "the Hebrew word Raukeeyang"), why would you innocently declare that "Raukeeyang is not Egyptian" or that it is "completely made up"? That is exactly the sort of falsehood that Fawn Brodie declared about Nauvoo -- never bothering to check with a Hebraist, even though her husband was Jewish. Brodie never bothered to apologize for that blatant inaccuracy (among many others).

Othmar Keel would see cosmic symbolism here, the primeval ocean frequently being indicated by zig-zag lines (facsimile 1:12).* The heavenly “expanse” or “firmament” of heaven is the celestial ocean, and the crocodile reminiscent of “Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers” (Ezk 29:3; = Rahab the dragon in Isa 51:9 ∥I Ne 8:9; Ps 89:10[11]), the KJV term for “dragon” here being Hebrew tannim/tannin = Ugaritic tnn “Tunnan” (a cosmic enemy defeated by Canaanite Anat; Baal Epic CAT 1.3 III 40; KTU 1.6 VI 51).

You need to own up to your mistaken calumnies, Craig, and this doesn't quite do it.

* Keel, Symbolism of the Biblical World, 41, figs. 36-38. The representation of waters with the choppy lines is standard in ancient Egyptian (C. Wilkinson & M. Hill, Egyptian Wall Paintings: The Metropolitan Museum of Art’s Collection of Facsimiles [NY, 1983], 40-42, 60-61).

In addition to that, see the Second Temple and Late Antiquity sources Nathaniel Deutsch used in his paper "Dangerous Ascents: Rabbi Akiba's Water Warning and Late Antique Cosmological Traditions."

The view that one encounters water in heaven was common in Jewish and Christian apocalyptic literature. For example, the Testament of Levi 2:7 declares, "And I entered from the first heaven and saw a huge sea hanging there"; the Testament of Abraham Recension B 8 has, "And Michael went out and took Abraham in the body on a cloud and lifted him up to the river Ocean"; while 2 Enoch 3:3 states, 'They placed me on the first heaven and showed me a very great sea, greater than the earthly sea."

[Damien the Leper]

Surely this is familiar:

Yikes...Leviathan! Which tradition are we talking about? Sea Monster or Keeper of Hell's Gates?

[volgadon]

Yikes...Leviathan! Which tradition are we talking about? Sea Monster or Keeper of Hell's Gates?

Both.