60 replies to this topic

[treehugger]

I received a text, which contain a message purported to be from Elder Bednar. At first I thought "Good for my friend who attended the Conference and heard Elder Bednar speak, after years away from Church, my friend is participating again". I googled what the friend sent.
A letter from S&I Administrators Council to all All Personnel (US Only)* describes the statements as "distorted and inaccurate"; which, in my opinion, does not mean absolute fabrications and outright lies, that is, like the Apocrypha there is some truth to be found.

More googling, I did find that apparently Elder Bednar may have made statements at Dixie College:

8 ) He [Elder Bednar]  prophesied that if Mitt Romney is elected the Presidential Candidate, the things of God will be made to look foolish in the media, specifically the temple He said, those that are not strong in the faith, may be shaken by the opposition that will arise in the near future. He said, the heat is being turned on and we need to be prepared.

and to Mission Presidents wife Sister Romney of the Mexico, Monterrey West Mission:
Source elderbryanwarner.blogspot.com

[Mission Presidents wife Sister Romney] expressed how when Elder Bednar came, they had a meeting with him afterwards. Elder Bednar expressed how the biggest concern of the Prophet and Quorum of the Twelve is that the members aren't converted. She mentioned a little about the political news with Mitt Romney, how Elder Bednar mentioned that in these future times, "All Hell is going to break loose". That Satan in these latter days is going to release "his wrath" and that if these members aren't converted, we will fall. It made me think of how many of us are REALLY converted into the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

Two persons, with no apparent reason to fabricate allege that Elder Bednar expressed concerns for the Church Membership should Mitt Romney get the Republican nomination for POTUS candidate.

I agree with the message attributed Elder Bednar, as I see it, he is urging the members of the Church to attain strong testimonies. I have often felt that there will come a time when all we can have to confirm the correctness of our positions (regardless of the forum) is a testimony of Gospel.

On a different note, provided the statements from Elder Bednar to Sister Romney and at Dixie College are generally accurate, should Romney step down to spare the Church and those who cannot weather the storm?  

*I view this email/letter with a grain of salt, first, it is not signed by anyone; second, if the letter is authentic it is addressed specifically and solely to the US personnel and not the general membership of the Church; third, the email/letter only refers to the statements as “distorted an inaccurate”.

Edited by treehugger, 24 May 2012 - 12:39 PM.

[KevinG]

If it weren't this candidacy it would be another public event.  I don't see Romney being the catalyst as much as the latest excuse for the forces of evil.

He should be at liberty to live his life and freely practice his faith up to and including the Presidency.

[Judd]

There are no doubt large portions of the church who lack in testimony, but I would highly doubt the FP and the 12 would have such little confidence in the general membership of the church.

Also, I believe that this far the light it has brought on the church has been largely positive.

[Darren10]

Quote

If Mitt Romney Nominated, Then What For The Church And Members?

Free tacos, I hope.

[Darren10]

KevinG, on 24 May 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

If it weren't this candidacy it would be another public event.  I don't see Romney being the catalyst as much as the latest excuse for the forces of evil.

He should be at liberty to live his life and freely practice his faith up to and including the Presidency.

I agree with you. There's nothing that'll be different about the presentation ofthe LDS Church and membership in them which hasn't already been presented. And I do not think that Mitt Romney's the centerpoint for the downfall of the Church. It'll move on as usual regardless of Romney. I have seen very good things though regarding how the LDS Church is presented since the nomination proces began (with two Mormons running) and since Romney's effectively cinlched the nomination.  Particularly positive is the LDS Church's emphasis on being good to others. What surprised me is how deeply Mitt Romney's a true man of service to others. I never would have known this had the media not produced a list of his services in the past as an LDS bishop.

[Garden Girl]

I agree that the Opposing camp will start to emphasize the Church more if Obama appears to be falling behind (already they are mostly tied at any given time... it  fluctuates slightly).  The other night on Hannity, they were talking about the opposition having to go back to 1965 to find something about Romney (the hair cutting incident), and Hannity said... Oh yeah, there was something brought up from the 1800's about some massacre...
So there will be some real attempts to discredit Romney through his faith, particularly since a good number of people from both sides are speaking in positive terms regarding Bain and other equity firms.  If and when this happens, whether it be in regard to Romney... or just generally... members' faith will be tested I'm sure... what are the scriptures about there being a "sifting" in the last days.

GG

[Avatar4321]

Buzzard, on 24 May 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

I don't want to turn this wholly into politics, but I read this morning about how the attacks on Romney for his role at Bain Capital were not getting much traction. Obama continues to slip (albeit slowly) in polls, and I wondered "what else will they come up with against Romney between now and November?". The more I thought about it, the less I liked the answer. If Obama is comfortably ahead in the fall, things may not get too bad. But if Obama trails and nothing else has stuck to the walls, we may very well see direct and sustained attacks on the church, not by Obama directly, but by his surrogates.
Since that seems to be the scenario that is shaping up, get ready for a wild ride. I suspect that we will hear things about our religion that will make most of us scratch our heads.

That's been my conclusion for a few months.

As for Romney stepping down to spare the Saints who aren't converted, to be blunt, if they arent prepared to handle whats coming, something else is going to challenge their faith and the result is going to be the same. I dont relish what's coming, but I dont think Romney should change tactics for that reason. The last days are coming. Things are going to get stirred up soon anyway. Did anyone honestly think this period of ease and safety would last indefinitely? The Lord was giving us time to prepare ourselves and so that everyone can learn his duty. It's time for the Priesthood to step up as prophecied.

If not us, who? If not now, when?

Edited by Avatar4321, 24 May 2012 - 08:12 PM.

[Freedom]

The pressures of the last days are inevitable. The wild fruit has to be cut out and cast into the fire at some point, it might as well start now. Perhaps there will come a day when mormons will protest against the 1st presidency much as Catholics are protesting now against the Pope. Just imagine a time when a group of members, including bishops and stake presidents hold up placards and subsequently get excommunicated. We have not seen opposition. We have seen amateurs fighting with the sword of ignorance. It won't always be so easy.

[thesometimesaint]

deleted

You have been warned in the past about making purely political posts in these threads.  We allow some leeway due to a Mormon candidate but we are not turning MDD into a political debate.  

Everyone else I hid purely and primarily political comments.  Stick to the topic and stay away from partisan comments as much as possible.  -Ares

Edited by Ares, 25 May 2012 - 12:20 PM.

[The Nehor]

treehugger, on 24 May 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

On a different note, provided the statements from Elder Bednar to Sister Romney and at Dixie College are generally accurate, should Romney step down to spare the Church and those who cannot weather the storm?  

"Some say, 'I do not like to do this [build temples], for we never began to build a temple without the bells of hell beginning to ring.' I want to hear them ring again. All the tribes of hell will be on the move, if we uncover the walls of this temple. But what do you think it will amount to? You have all the time seen what it has amounted to." -Brigham Young

Same principle. Or, more succinctly, the words of the theatrical Theoden of Rohan after hearing the size of the army coming to attack: "Let them come."

[Deborah]

I think we are seeing once again the bigotry of some people. Persecution is not new to the church but I don't see how a Romney presidency would bring more criticism than already arises over the building of temples. I do agree however that the members of the Church need to attain strong testimonies, but this is something that has been emphasized in the last several conferences. We are headed toward perilous times and those not founded on the rock will wash away in the storm. I am already seeing a great exodus of those who think they know more than the prophets and should heed the warning found in D&C 112:

Quote

25 And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord;

26 First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasp...hemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord.

27 Therefore, see to it that ye trouble not yourselves concerning the affairs of my church in this place, saith the Lord.

28 But purify your hearts before me; and then go ye into all the world, and preach my gospel unto every creature who has not received it;"

[alter idem]

The scriptures say that in the last days even the very elect will be deceived.  We also know that in the last days, Satan will rage in the hearts of men.  We should not be surprised if the election gets really ugly, we should expect it.  But that's no reason to give up--we're Saints!  We should expect persecution--it's part of the last days as well and fear of persecution of the church or it's people should not sway Romney from running.

[cdowis]

The Nehor, on 25 May 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:

Or, more succinctly, the words of the theatrical Theoden of Rohan after hearing the size of the army coming to attack: "Let them come."

After repelling a massive attack at Wake Island,  the Marines sent a message to HQ:  "Send us more Japs."

Edited by cdowis, 25 May 2012 - 07:00 PM.

[The Nehor]

alter idem, on 25 May 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

The scriptures say that in the last days even the very elect will be deceived.  We also know that in the last days, Satan will rage in the hearts of men.  We should not be surprised if the election gets really ugly, we should expect it.  But that's no reason to give up--we're Saints!  We should expect persecution--it's part of the last days as well and fear of persecution of the church or it's people should not sway Romney from running.

Add to that that we haven't seen any real persecution yet and I doubt Romney will cause any and I don't think we have much to worry about. When they start burning houses again I'll get excited. Until then it's mostly just words.

[blackstrap]

Things can happen quite quickly. Review the situation just 2 years before the Berlin wall came down. A couple of years before the Bosnian conflict atrosities happened,neighbors of different faiths were attending each others weddings etc.

[Stargazer]

I followed the link to the "Spurious Materials in Circulation" page, and was reminded of Snopes!  http://snopes.com/

[cdowis]

We need to be prepared for the possibility that, just a few weeks prior to the election, a prominent individual will leave the church because of its social policies regarding blacks and its "homophobia".

"I have had increasing difficulty reconciling my membership in this church with my personal commitment to fairness and equality to all people.  I can no longer remain indifferent to those policies."

Edited by cdowis, 26 May 2012 - 07:05 AM.

[Deborah]

alter idem, on 25 May 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

The scriptures say that in the last days even the very elect will be deceived.  

Actually the scripture adds the caveat "if it were possible":

Matthew 24: 24 "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." The Joseph Smith translation keeps that caveat. Which is why I think the very elect will be able to see through the deceptions.

[Garden Girl]

cdowis, on 26 May 2012 - 06:59 AM, said:

We need to be prepared for the possibility that, just a few weeks prior to the election, a prominent individual will leave the church because of its social policies regarding blacks and its "homophobia".

"I have had increasing difficulty reconciling my membership in this church with my personal commitment to fairness and equality to all people.  I can no longer remain indifferent to those policies."

Hello cdowis...
I note the sentence above in quotation marks... may I ask who the quote is from?  Is that a real quote?

GG

[Judd]

Garden Girl, on 26 May 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

Hello cdowis...
I note the sentence above in quotation marks... may I ask who the quote is from?  Is that a real quote?

GG

I believe it's a hypothetical statement from another prominent member in the US political sphere. At least that's how I see it.