93 replies to this topic

[DBMormon]

Cobalt, I like yours as well.  we should build cars together

[CV75]

Maybe some of this relates to the car analogy: Everyone is extended grace in many ways; the “saved” in “saved by grace” is the degree of benefit we enjoy to the degree we are willing to enjoy it. It is the “saved by,” not the “grace” itself that is conditional (not merited by) on “all we can do.”

Picking up from an earlier post about this, once we have the light of the Gospel, we are doing all we can do with the light we have, otherwise we would lose it. It is by grace that we keep or retain the light and build upon it (D&C 50:24, 40; 93:20). In this life we either move forward or all backward--"plateaus" are very, very brief (damnation is when they are not!). This is how we are saved by grace (a kingdom of glory) after all we can do.

Within the cohort of accountable people, anyone experiencing spiritual progress is doing so by doing all he can do, and he enjoys the gift of grace in many ways that he can recognize and be grateful for (he is “saved”). Anyone experiencing spiritual decline is not doing all he can do and so does not enjoy that which is extended to him in such forms as a constant invitation to repent, a basic resurrection, etc. Anyone that testifies of the spiritual progress they enjoy is doing all he can do.

[DBMormon]

cv75 - why did you use the word "plateaus" ?  just a weird reason for asking.  Had we discussed plateaus in this discussion?

[CV75]

reelmormon, on 24 May 2012 - 07:34 AM, said:

cv75 - why did you use the word "plateaus" ?  just a weird reason for asking.  Had we discussed plateaus in this discussion?

I used it to emphasize that while some may feel there is such a state as neither progressing nor regressing, I feel that such is not really the case. Many years ago President Kimball gave an address where he used the term and the message stayed with me. http://www.lds.org/g...ward-and-upward Where the discussion has touched on "doing all we can do (or not)" there is no such thing as a middle ground (plateau).

Edited by CV75, 24 May 2012 - 09:12 AM.

[Cobalt-70]

Cobalt-70, on 24 May 2012 - 04:45 AM, said:

I like that analogy. An alternate version of the analogy that takes it a bit further might be that Jesus is the oil company that provides the fuel, grace is the fuel, faith is the engine, repentance is the motion of the car, and baptism is the driver's license.

One more thing: the Holy Spirit is the GPS signal.

Edited by Cobalt-70, 24 May 2012 - 11:17 AM.

[DBMormon]

Quote

I used it to emphasize that while some may feel there is such a state as neither progressing nor regressing, I feel that such is not really the case. Many years ago President Kimball gave an address where he used the term and the message stayed with me. http://www.lds.org/g...ward-and-upward Where the discussion has touched on "doing all we can do (or not)" there is no such thing as a middle ground (plateau).

the reason I asked is I have a facebook page "LDS LEADERSHIP PRINCIPLES"  http://www.facebook.com/LDSLeadership
and my most recent post spoke of spiritual plateus

[DBMormon]

by the way I completely believe Elder Holland 100% when he says

"Obviously as the path of discipleship ascends, that trail gets ever more narrow until we come to that knee-buckling pinnacle of the sermon of which Elder Christofferson just spoke: “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” 13 What was gentle in the lowlands of initial loyalty becomes deeply strenuous and very demanding at the summit of true discipleship." - Elder Jeffrey R Holland"

I absolutely believe it gets harder and more strenous as we become more and more christlike as we follow him.... I just don't believe perfection is required in this life.... there is no bar...

Salvation is not found in the result of being perfect but in the effort to press forward with steadfastness

Edited by reelmormon, 24 May 2012 - 04:39 PM.

[CV75]

reelmormon, on 24 May 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

the reason I asked is I have a facebook page "LDS LEADERSHIP PRINCIPLES"  http://www.facebook.com/LDSLeadership
and my most recent post spoke of spiritual plateus

Interesting!

[CV75]

reelmormon, on 24 May 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

by the way I completely believe Elder Holland 100% when he says

"Obviously as the path of discipleship ascends, that trail gets ever more narrow until we come to that knee-buckling pinnacle of the sermon of which Elder Christofferson just spoke: “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” 13 What was gentle in the lowlands of initial loyalty becomes deeply strenuous and very demanding at the summit of true discipleship." - Elder Jeffrey R Holland"

I absolutely believe it gets harder and more strenous as we become more and more christlike as we follow him.... I just don't believe perfection is required in this life.... there is no bar...

Salvation is not found in the result of being perfect but in the effort to press forward with steadfastness

This is my take on the matter as well. Though as with everything else, it might depend on how one defines "salvation"... So I pay it safe and consider it to refer to the whole gamut of salvatory states! Salvation is definitiley found in being perfect, whenever and however the Lord judges that to be, according to the individual and his circumstances (both those he can control and those he cannot), etc., but most certainly when "the fulness of the perfect day shall burst upon [us]"; it is at the very same time found in the process of a work in progress.

[followerofemmanuel]

reelmormon, on 21 May 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

The Law

We say in speaking of Christ that he fulfilled the law. Do we ever consider what that means? In part at least, it means he kept the Law of Moses, every jot and tittle. He did it. He was perfect. Why is that such a big deal? You see, each of us must be justified in order to be resurrected and enter back into the presence of the Father and to be judged. To be justified is to be pardoned or found not guilty of your actions. There are two ways within Mainstream Christianity and a third way that the restored gospel and continuing revelation have added that one can and will be justified. Let’s only talk about the first here. We can keep the Law perfectly. God gave rules.

While the Ten commandments may be most recognized, as they were directly given from God to Moses, there are approximately 612 laws in the Law of Moses. God’s directions were pretty simple. Keep the 612 laws contained in the Law of Moses and you would enter back into the presence of your Heavenly Father. On the outside that sounds simple enough. Simply get up every day and be perfect in those 612 things. As you can guess the problem arises in the application stage of this test. It’s impossible. Even if one is only asked to keep the directly given Ten Commandments, this endeavor would still be impossible. There is none righteous, no not one (Romans 3:10). We all sin.

One of the things Latter-Day Saints are accused of often is that we are trying to earn our way to heaven or earn our salvation by doing good works. This sterotype can at least in part be blamed on ourselves. In the church it doesn't take long to find a member who holds this belief. We have to be careful that we aren’t trying to earn our way to Heaven by our works. That we are not measuring our good works as having merit in providing our salvation. The scriptures say if we are leaning on the Law of Moses or the Ten Commandments to save us then we will find ourselves on the wrong side of the judgment (Galatians 5:4). If you take pride in being almost perfect, your missing the point. If you look at others and measure your righteousness against theirs, your missing the boat. Don’t get me wrong your righteousness is required but not as merits towards your redemption (JST Romans 4:2).

The question that we would be best to ponder on is this – Why did God give us a Law knowing that we would inevitably fail at it. He could have just as easily given us a simple law. Perhaps just blink our eyes twice a week and blow bubbles once a year. If so Free Will would still be in place and many more of God’s children would make it back on the Law alone. Do we ever consider that Heavenly Father doesn’t intend for us to be perfect in the Law, that indeed he made the Law impossible on purpose. In fact 2nd Nephi 2:5 tells us that the Law was created in part so that we may know good from evil and that if our focus is on keeping the Law or Rules then we shall be miserable and cut off. The Law was given for a 2nd reason as well. We are taught in the scriptures that the Law is a schoolmaster designed to point us to Christ (Galatians 3:22-25) The Law is designed to push us in the direction of having faith in and following the Savior. Keeping the law perfectly was created to be impossible for a reason. We are supposed to fall short. Not only do we each fall short, but we are to take notice of it. We are to recognize the great Gulf that stands between us and the Glory that awaits us. Only by seeing how short we fall, according to the Law, are we willing admit we can not do it on our own and then humbly turn ourselves towards the Savior and look to him. I believe the Law is designed by nature to help us see our weaknesses so that we may be humble (Ether 12:27).

Great topic by the way.  I appreciated your thoughts and ideas on this topic. For me, I wonder if God gave us the law to show that no matter how hard we try, we can never keep law perfectly (only Jesus has).  Perhaps the law is designed to show us our weakness, to bring us to humility, too see our sin and the need for our Saviour.  The bible states if we have broken one commandment that we have broken them all...so it's like we don't even have a chance really.  Did he set us up to fail or to rely completly on him?  For me that causes me to want to live my best in obedience to his ways in gratitude for his love and mercy.

“…For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor” (Gal. 3:21-25).

and perhaps the law gives us insight into our Fathers Holiness and reminds us that He is perfect, we are sinners, in need of his mercy and grace.

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts, and your ways are not My ways.” [This is] the Lord’s declaration. “For as heaven is higher than earth, so My ways are higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts.”—Isaiah 55:8–9

[DBMormon]

Grace – The Enabling power of Jesus Christ

Grace is likely the most under appreciated principle of the gospel. Yet it is also one of the most needed and important. As we discussed earlier it is impossible for us to earn our Salvation. It is impossible for us to overcome our weakness on our own. It is impossible for us to be sanctified and saved in the Kingdom by our own merits. If we add the Grace of God we can do each of these things. God’s grace does several amazing things for us and I hope you might bear with me as we go through many of them. Grace is the power which enables us to become perfect. It is not a gift given at the end after all we can do. It is how we become both perfected in Him and truly perfect in some future point to be exalted While these two states of perfection are described later we need to know what gives us Grace and how we increase it. Without Grace we will always be unclean and imperfect and unable to truly rise above the natural man.

Grace enters the picture as soon as we begin to exercise real Faith (Ether 12:27, Romans 12:3) Ether 12:27 tells us that Christ can make our Weaknesses into Strengths. It is by Grace that this miracle occurs (2nd Corinthians 12:9). Grace varies in amount from person to person based on their faith and humility (James 4:6). We are also taught that once we have grace, if we begin to develop pride again that we can lose the grace we had. It is a gift and blessing that can only be given and kept by our meekness, faith, and continual trying to be Christlike. We know that all blessing are predicated on obedience to certain laws. Grace is a blessing, and it is predicated on continued faith and humility. John 1:16 and D&C 93:13 tell us that as we press forward in this law, Grace shall be added to Grace. That there is always more grace to gain or to lose based on our moving forward toward Christ or our turning from him.


There are some of you who still feel that this blessing of Grace is tied to our Works or to our keeping the law of commandments. It is not. It is only tied to Faith and humility where in it enters in. It then continues to be given to us in increasing increments as we progress in the Law of the Gospel (Faith, Repentance, Baptism, Holy Ghost, Endure to the end). We can see that from Romans 11:6. Even James tells us God gives Grace to the Humble, and we see from Ether that it is in being the natural man and falling short that we see our weakness and in return humble ourselves. Remember it is about turning to Christ not to our own efforts (2nd Timothy 1:9). That has been the plan from the beginning in the councils of heaven.

Paul shows us clearly that our Works if they are sincere are a result of Grace working within us. Indeed it is the Grace that leads to our doing things through this awesome gift. He also indicates that the grace comes first after his faith and that he has allowed it to work within him and not be given to him in vain (1 Corinthians 15:11). If we go to LDS.ORG and look up in the topical guide the word GRACE we see that it is the enabling power given to us to accomplish what we can’t on our own and that it is predicated on keeping this “law of the gospel”. It is included here in case there is ever a change in the online format so that it is accessible. The following three paragraphs are from the LDS.ORG site. Notice in referring to obedience to commandments Grace is based on our trying to keep them, not on our exact obedience. This is because we need to have the gift of Grace first before there is any hope of progressing in our path of perfection or true obedience.

Grace is a gift from Heavenly Father given through His Son, Jesus Christ. The word grace, as used in the scriptures, refers primarily to enabling power and spiritual healing offered through the mercy and love of Jesus Christ. To receive this enabling power, we must obey the gospel of Jesus Christ, which includes having faith in Him, repenting of our sins, being baptized, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and “trying” to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ for the rest of our lives (see Ephesians 2:8-9; James 2:17-22; 2 Nephi 25:23; 31:20). The grace of God helps us every day. It strengthens us to do good works we could not do on our own. The Lord promised that if we humble ourselves before Him and have faith in Him, His grace will help us overcome all our personal weaknesses (see Ether 12:27).

Rather than relying on so many other things, God wants us to rely on Christ and to recognize his grace is sufficient. We are told his grace is sufficient in several scriptures (D&C 18:31, Moroni 10:32, Ether 12:26-27, 2nd Corinthians 12:9, and D&C 17:8 )   . Moroni 10:32-33 tells us how Grace makes us Perfected in Christ and then allows us later on by progressing to be truly Perfect with him. 2nd Corinthians 12:9 helps see how Paul knowing he had God’s Grace could care less about his flaws, weakness, infirmities. That doesn’t mean he isn’t trying to choose the right or that he is telling us he is saved by grace alone. He is simply stating that as long as he is progressing, learning, and repenting; that Grace is being given to him and he recognizes it is better to have this gift than personal righteousness as one saves and the other doesn’t.

The Atonement and Repentance work together through the gift of Grace (Ephesians 1:7). Paul also seems to indicate that while he and others were spiritually dead that it was Grace which brought them into a life with Christ. There are lots of angles to see this scripture from, but I often wonder how we see Saul/Paul as this horrible man who worked to tear down the church including his participation in the stoning of Stephen and then after his vision on the road to Damascus as this person who received an undeserved blessing at the hands of God. Yet two things – 1) - do we know if Paul humbled himself in some way and asked God if this Christ was real to reveal him and 2) - Each of us is undeserving of any of the blessings God has in store for us. His Kingdom is perfect and we are not. Grace by definition implies being given something we do not deserve. Heavenly Father loves us that much. So what with the 2nd Nephi 25:23 “After all we can do”?. Reverse these two sentences in this scripture and I think we begin to better understand what Nephi was trying to say.

“After all we can do, It is by grace we are saved”. In other words, Even after all we can do, it is Grace that saves us. That doesn’t take away what we have to do, only that it is Grace and not the works that Save. Works are still essential part of the plan, but not as some checklist that when accomplished leads back to Heavenly Father and his Son. If there is still any doubt here than 2nd Nephi 10:24 should put an end to it.

“Wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile yourselves to the will of God, and not to the will of the devil and the flesh; and remember, after ye are reconciled unto God, that it is only in and through the grace of God that ye are saved.”

Edited by reelmormon, 25 May 2012 - 04:53 AM.

[DBMormon]

Fellow of Emmanuel - Thank you.  Also like your moniker Author and Finisher of of faith... that is what I truly believe... he finshes us.   we make an effort but it is his grace that finishes us

Edited by reelmormon, 25 May 2012 - 08:49 AM.

[DBMormon]

Log

Quote

May I contribute this reference?
Check my profile for more.

I agree with this papaer in all thr things required..... only disagreement is with be careful to recognize the difference in keeping the commandments becasue God has asked us to to push us to make our best effort to become like him and to push us to refine ourselves through his grace it perhaps being implied hat our perfect obedience has merit in rewarding us with exhaltation? which I do not believe it does

Edited by reelmormon, 25 May 2012 - 08:46 AM.

[DBMormon]

Mercy

Mercy is another wonderful gift from God and goes hand in hand with Grace. Robert Millet explained it this way. He saw Grace as lifting us to more than we can do on our own. He sees Mercy as giving more forgiveness than we deserve. We need Mercy as much as Grace as it is the gift that enables us to be forgiven as we repent. This gift is needed, as saying we are sorry doesn’t actually erase a wrong we did. His Mercy, undeserved as it is based on the law, removes the wrongs we have committed as we repent.

Moroni 10:3 reminds us the Lord has been Merciful to all his children through the ages. He wants us to know that while some see the God of the Old Testament as mean and full of wrath and jealousy, that this is the same Loving God of the New Testament. Indeed both are the Merciful Christ, son of the Living God. A Father and a Son who both so loved the world that they freely gave the Son's life, that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Alma 29:10 reminds us how we should strive to always remember the Mercy of God and its power to cleanse us from sin.

[zerinus]

reelmormon, on 26 May 2012 - 04:33 AM, said:

Mercy

Mercy is another wonderful gift from God and goes hand in hand with Grace. Robert Millet explained it this way. He saw Grace as lifting us to more than we can do on our own. He sees Mercy as giving more forgiveness than we deserve. We need Mercy as much as Grace as it is the gift that enables us to be forgiven as we repent. This gift is needed, as saying we are sorry doesn’t actually erase a wrong we did. His Mercy, undeserved as it is based on the law, removes the wrongs we have committed as we repent.

Moroni 10:3 reminds us the Lord has been Merciful to all his children through the ages. He wants us to know that while some see the God of the Old Testament as mean and full of wrath and jealousy, that this is the same Loving God of the New Testament. Indeed both are the Merciful Christ, son of the Living God. A Father and a Son who both so loved the world that they freely gave the Son's life, that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Alma 29:10 reminds us how we should strive to always remember the Mercy of God and its power to cleanse us from sin.

Except that mercy is not unconditional, but is made conditional on repentance:

Jacob 6:

5 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, I beseech of you in words of soberness that ye would repent, and come with full purpose of heart, and cleave unto God as he cleaveth unto you. And while his arm of mercy is extended towards you in the light of the day, harden not your hearts.

Mosiah 16:

12 Having gone according to their own carnal wills and desires; having never called upon the Lord while the arms of mercy were extended towards them; for the arms of mercy were extended towards them, and they would not; they being warned of their iniquities and yet they would not depart from them; and they were commanded to repent and yet they would not repent.

Mosiah 27:

28 Nevertheless, after wading through much tribulation, repenting nigh unto death, the Lord in mercy hath seen fit to snatch me out of an everlasting burning, and I am born of God.

Alma 3:

14 Thus the word of God is fulfilled, for these are the words which he said to Nephi: Behold, the Lamanites have I cursed, and I will set a mark on them that they and their seed may be separated from thee and thy seed, from this time henceforth and forever, except they repent of their wickedness and turn to me that I may have mercy upon them.

Alma 5:

33 Behold, he sendeth an invitation unto all men, for the arms of mercy are extended towards them, and he saith: Repent, and I will receive you.

Alma 12:

33 But God did call on men, in the name of his Son, (this being the plan of redemption which was laid) saying: If ye will repent and harden not your hearts, then will I have mercy upon you, through mine Only Begotten Son
34 Therefore, whosoever repenteth, and hardeneth not his heart, he shall have claim on mercy through mine Only Begotten Son, unto a remission of his sins; and these shall enter into my rest.

Alma 34:

15 And thus he shall bring salvation to all those who shall believe on his name; this being the intent of this last sacrifice, to bring about the bowels of mercy, which overpowereth justice, and bringeth about means unto men that they may have faith unto repentance.
16 And thus mercy can satisfy the demands of justice, and encircles them in the arms of safety, while he that exercises no faith unto repentance is exposed to the whole law of the demands of justice; therefore only unto him that has faith unto repentance is brought about the great and eternal plan of redemption.
17 Therefore may God grant unto you, my brethren, that ye may begin to exercise your faith unto repentance, that ye begin to call upon his holy name, that he would have mercy upon you

Alma 42:

13 Therefore, according to justice, the plan of redemption could not be brought about, only on conditions of repentance of men in this probationary state, yea, this preparatory state; for except it were for these conditions, mercy could not take effect except it should destroy the work of justice. Now the work of justice could not be destroyed; if so, God would cease to be God.

22 But there is a law given, and a punishment affixed, and a repentance granted; which repentance, mercy claimeth; otherwise, justice claimeth the creature and executeth the law, and the law inflicteth the punishment; if not so, the works of justice would be destroyed, and God would cease to be God.

31 And now, O my son, ye are called of God to preach the word unto this people. And now, my son, go thy way, declare the word with truth and soberness, that thou mayest bring souls unto repentance, that the great plan of mercy may have claim upon them. And may God grant unto you even according to my words. Amen.

Ether 11:

8 And the people began to repent of their iniquity; and inasmuch as they did the Lord did have mercy on them.

So as you can see, no matter what you do, you keep coming back to that dreaded thing called repentance!

[longview]

This is an interesting discussion.  But one thought has continued to persist in my mind throughout that does not appear to have been addressed.  As part of the process of "enduring to the end" we need to participate in the Sacrament which allows us to: (1) renew our baptismal covenant, (2) review our actions in the prior week [or weeks], (3) resolve to apply the teachings of the Savior to try to do better [or to BE better].  Obviously, if we have behaved badly or made a serious mistake, we should resolve the problem BEFORE participating in the sacrament.

It has been taught that we do not obtain ALL of the "benefit" of the Atonement at once in the next life.  But we do acquire a small increment of the Atonement each time we participate in the sacrament.  Thereby we become more exalted by small degrees continually to the end of life.  D&C explains that we should try to obtain "a portion of the Celestial spirit" in this life in hopes of qualifying for a Celestial Resurrection.

Then the Savior provides the full measure of His Atonement in the next life to take us ALL the way to "perfection".  On the other hand, if one chooses to become "inactive" or "play hooky" in this life, then he has disregarded the power of the Atonement and will have to suffer for his sins in the next life in order to "move on" to the "next step" [whatever that might be].

Another thing.  Elder Bednar has taught that the baptism and the sacrament allows us to express "willingness" to put the name of Christ on us but we can only actually do that when we obtain further ordinances in the Temple [with power from on high].

[followerofemmanuel]

longview, on 26 May 2012 - 06:41 AM, said:

This is an interesting discussion.  But one thought has continued to persist in my mind throughout that does not appear to have been addressed.  As part of the process of "enduring to the end" we need to participate in the Sacrament which allows us to: (1) renew our baptismal covenant, (2) review our actions in the prior week [or weeks], (3) resolve to apply the teachings of the Savior to try to do better [or to BE better].  Obviously, if we have behaved badly or made a serious mistake, we should resolve the problem BEFORE participating in the sacrament.

It has been taught that we do not obtain ALL of the "benefit" of the Atonement at once in the next life.  But we do acquire a small increment of the Atonement each time we participate in the sacrament.  Thereby we become more exalted by small degrees continually to the end of life.  D&C explains that we should try to obtain "a portion of the Celestial spirit" in this life in hopes of qualifying for a Celestial Resurrection.

Then the Savior provides the full measure of His Atonement in the next life to take us ALL the way to "perfection".  On the other hand, if one chooses to become "inactive" or "play hooky" in this life, then he has disregarded the power of the Atonement and will have to suffer for his sins in the next life in order to "move on" to the "next step" [whatever that might be].

Another thing.  Elder Bednar has taught that the baptism and the sacrament allows us to express "willingness" to put the name of Christ on us but we can only actually do that when we obtain further ordinances in the Temple [with power from on high].

So is your view like conditional grace?  Like if someone says, I'm taking you out for lunch...my treat (offer of salvation from sins if)...you pay what you can (by participating sacraments and obeying the law etc) and I'll cover the rest (grace for where you fall short).  I just want to really understand your perspective.

[zerinus]

followerofemmanuel, on 26 May 2012 - 07:06 AM, said:

So is your view like conditional grace?  Like if someone says, I'm taking you out for lunch...my treat (offer of salvation from sins if)...you pay what you can (by participating sacraments and obeying the law etc) and I'll cover the rest (grace for where you fall short).  I just want to really understand your perspective.

I don't know about him. I am not interested in what he is saying. But grace is conditional on repentance. It would be like saying to someone, "I will take you out to lunch, and give you a treat, on condition that you promise me you will be a good boy, behave yourself, and will not be naughty any more.

[followerofemmanuel]

zerinus, on 26 May 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

I don't know about him. I am not interested in what he is saying. But grace is conditional on repentance. It would be like saying to someone, "I will take you out to lunch, and give you a treat, on condition that you promise me you will be a good boy, behave yourself, and will not be naughty any more.

Thanks Zerinus, thanks for sharing that

[longview]

followerofemmanuel, on 26 May 2012 - 07:06 AM, said:

So is your view like conditional grace?  Like if someone says, I'm taking you out for lunch...my treat (offer of salvation from sins if)...you pay what you can (by participating sacraments and obeying the law etc) and I'll cover the rest (grace for where you fall short).  I just want to really understand your perspective.

No.  There are two parts to the Atonement [Grace].  First part is unconditional [totally free] which is given to EVERY person born into this world regardless if they were monstrous people such as Hitler, Attila the Hun, or any other depraved or violent perpetrators.  That gift is the resurrection entailing the reunification of the body and the spirit [your actual person] with some degree of glory [Celestial, Terrestrial, Telestial, ...]

The other part is conditional but NOT in the sense that the Savior needs us to do part of the work.  Nothing we do will MERIT any fraction of the Atonement.  We are totally dependent on Him.  But He does require us to exert ourselves in obedience, faith [extremely important], learning, wisdom, empathy, humility, all things that we experience in this "vale of tears".  These efforts are required in order to fulfill the purpose for having mortal [probationary] experiences and to fully participate in the process of the Atonement which our Lord so graciously has offered to us, which is to exalt us and allow us to become like Him.  But not everybody will want to exist in the Celestial realm, they may prefer lower kingdoms or even outer darkness.

zerinus, on 26 May 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

I don't know about him. I am not interested in what he is saying. But grace is conditional on repentance. It would be like saying to someone, "I will take you out to lunch, and give you a treat, on condition that you promise me you will be a good boy, behave yourself, and will not be naughty any more.

Not quite.  Repentance alone is not enough.  We will not MERIT anything with simple promises.  We need to go through a refining process . . .


Moroni 10:32

32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.

Doctrine and Covenants 93:20

20 For if you keep my commandments you shall receive of his fulness, and be glorified in me as I am in the Father; therefore, I say unto you, you shall receive grace for grace.