When Were Bom Land Prophecies Fulfilled?

[DWhitmer]

This topic has been ignored by most geography enthusiasts. Primarily the BoM is a spiritual book to serve spiritual purposes. Therefore, her spiritual promises and fulfilled prophecies should receive equal if not preferential treatment. Use verse or GA writings.

[The Nehor]

I for one think the prophecy that the Western Hemisphere is blessed is still awaiting fulfillment. After all....Canada is still here.

[Freedom]

[The Nehor]

I actually really like Canada. I just find that clip hilarious.

That and derailing threads started by DWhitmer is fun.

Edited May 4, 2012 by The Nehor

[selek1]

I wonder which CARMite has his her/hand inside DWhitmer...

Edited May 4, 2012 by selek1

[selek1]

We really shouldn't pick on Canada too much....after all, they only allowed foreigners to invade us twice.

[DWhitmer]

Unfortunately the land prophecies exclude lands with either a Gentile King or Queen so Canada won't work.

And this land shall be a land of liberty unto the Gentiles and there shall be

no kings upon the land

who shall raise up unto the Gentiles. (2 Nephi 10:11)

Edited May 4, 2012 by DWhitmer

[DWhitmer]

Here's another one: Land must have been supernaturally fractured, which fracturing is CLEAR and EVIDENT to this MOMENT.

Therefore, BoM lands cannot have any volcanoes. There are zero references to either ash, lava, or earthquakes in the BoM except when supernaturally done.

[rodheadlee]

Here's another one: Land must have been supernaturally fractured, which fracturing is CLEAR and EVIDENT to this MOMENT.

Therefore, BoM lands cannot have any volcanoes. There are zero references to either ash, lava, or earthquakes in the BoM except when supernaturally done.

What verses are those from?

[rodheadlee]

Unfortunately the land prophecies exclude lands with either a Gentile King or Queen so Canada won't work.

And this land shall be a land of liberty unto the Gentiles and there shall be

no kings upon the land

who shall raise up unto the Gentiles. (2 Nephi 10:11)

From what time period? Mexico doesn't have a king or a queen nor do any of the Central Ameican countries or IIRC, even the South American countries, a few dictators here and there.

[volgadon]

From what time period? Mexico doesn't have a king or a queen nor do any of the Central Ameican countries or IIRC, even the South American countries, a few dictators here and there.

[DWhitmer]

What verses are those from?

First let's recognize the poor scholarship by people like Garth Norman and other Mesoapologists who use volcanoes as a criteria for true BoM lands. In addition to what I already stated about the void of references to earthquakes, lava flows, and ash clouds is this emphatic statement by Nephi that what occurred at the coming of Jesus "was never before known":

5 And it came to pass in the thirty and fourth year in the first month on the fourth day of the month there arose a great storm

such an one as

never had been known

in all the land. (3 Nephi 8 )

.

Here are the fracturing of the land prophecies:

12 And all these things must surely come saith the prophet Zenos and the

rocks of the earth must rend

; (1 Nephi 19:12)

.

21 Yea at the time that he shall yield up the ghost there shall be thunderings and lightnings for the space of many hours and the earth shall shake and tremble and the rocks which are upon the face of this earth which are both above the earth and beneath which ye know at this time are solid or the more part of it is

one solid mass shall be broken up

22 Yea they shall be rent in twain and

shall ever after be found in seams and in cracks and in broken fragments upon the face of the whole earth yea

both above the earth and beneath

. (Helaman 14:21-22)

.

11 And there was a great and terrible destruction in the land southward.

12 But behold, there was a

more great and terrible destruction in the land northward

; for behold,

the whole face of the land was changed

, because of the tempest and the whirlwinds, and the thunderings and the lightnings, and the

exceedingly great quaking of the whole earth

;

13 And the

highways were broken up

, and the level roads were spoiled, and many smooth places became rough.

18 And behold the rocks were rent in twain yea they were broken up upon the face of the whole earth insomuch that

they were found in broken fragments and in seams and in cracks upon all the face of the land.

(3 Nephi 8:11-13, 18)

Edited May 4, 2012 by DWhitmer

[Freedom]

I just sent to the store and I found both milk and honey there so sorry, Canada is the promised land. Besides, we don't have a king. We have a queen.

[volgadon]

First let's recognize the poor scholarship by people like Garth Norman and other Mesoapologists who use volcanoes as a criteria for true BoM lands. In addition to what I already stated about the void of references to earthquakes, lava flows, and ash clouds is this emphatic statement by Nephi that what occurred at the coming of Jesus "was never before known":

5 And it came to pass in the thirty and fourth year in the first month on the fourth day of the month there arose a great storm

such an one as

never had been known

in all the land. (3 Nephi 8 )

Is this statement addressing the kind of storm, your claim, or is it addressing the extent and intensity of the storm?

[DWhitmer]

From what time period? Mexico doesn't have a king or a queen nor do any of the Central Ameican countries or IIRC, even the South American countries, a few dictators here and there.

etc.

The time period that applies to the coming forth of the BoM, which rules out both Canada and Mexico and most models including the "hemispheric" viewpoint to justify a unilateral "Zion" for all of N. and S. America, and modelers such as Meldrum, May, Olive, Coon, Aston, and most Mesoapologists.

[Duncan]

We really shouldn't pick on Canada too much....after all, they only allowed foreigners to invade us twice.

The Rolling Stones? Justin Bieber?

Edited May 4, 2012 by Duncan

[selek1]

The Rolling Stones? Justin Bieber?

I had not known the latter was Canadian- though that does explain to which queen Freedom was referring.

I withdraw my earlier statement calling for moderation and now insist that SAC nuke Winnipeg on principle.

Edited May 4, 2012 by selek1

[DWhitmer]

Is this statement addressing the kind of storm, your claim, or is it addressing the extent and intensity of the storm?

It's obvious after a thorough read of the record that it's both. Meldrum takes a supernatural whirlwind episode to deduce that BoM lands must include tornado allies and Mesoapologists take a supernatural earthquake to deduce there must be volcanoes on or near BoM land, despite the lack of them at any time else and the VERY SELECTIVE damage they caused.

What is alarming to me is the tendency of these theorists to strip God of any credit...very troubling.

[cdowis]

we don't have a king. We have a queen.

I understand the monarchy is strictly symbolic and has little or no actual political power. Please correct me if wrong.

[selek1]

What is alarming to me is the tendency of these theorists to strip God of any credit...very troubling.

What is alarming to me is when polemicists with an axe to grind impute actions or beliefs to "theorists" or "apologists" while simultaneously failing to provide any evidence for their assertion.

It smacks of both a "No True Scotsman" fallacy and a casual, at-arm's-length relationship with honesty and integrity.

Instead of telling us what they think, why don't you cite their work and demonstrate where they're wrong?

Also- as a courtesy, would you please stop high lighting your off-the-cuff comments in red?

That color is usually reserved for moderator intervention, and you keep getting my hopes up.

Edited May 4, 2012 by selek1

[selek1]

I understand the monarchy is strictly symbolic and has little or no actual political power. Please correct me if wrong.

Any woman who can single handedly ride shot gun on that brood of hers, and preserve the Corgi as a species is a force to be reckoned with.

On a more serious note- how many tens of thousands of Americans turned out to witness her last state visit?

We, as Mormons- and especially those who witnessed President Hinckley's tenure as Prophet- should be first in line to acknowledge just how influential a single individual with "no real power" can be.

[DWhitmer]

What is alarming to me is when polemicists with an axe to grind impute actions or beliefs to "theorists" or "apologists" while simultaneously failing to provide any evidence for their assertion.

I dislike intruders whose only point is to purposely derail the thread.

If you are wanting to act civilized and stick to the OP, what is the question exactly? Are you discounting the obvious, or asking for a CFR because you yourself are not familiar with their positions?

[DWhitmer]

I understand the monarchy is strictly symbolic and has little or no actual political power. Please correct me if wrong.

It is not symbolic, not now, nor when the BoM was coming forth. You must consider the since 1830 or earlier.

[selek1]

I dislike intruders whose only point is to purposely derail the thread.

Well, we all have our minor irritants, now don't we?

In point of fact, I am not here "merely to derail", but to address what I see as a very serious flaw in your reasoning and presentation.

If you are wanting to act civilized and stick to the OP, what is the question exactly? Are you discounting the obvious, or asking for a CFR because you yourself are not familiar with their positions?

You have attributed positions to an unspecified group and provided no evidence to back up your assertion.

Those are both huge red flags which speak directly to your credibility.

As an example, can you point out the problematic elements in the following statements?

"Some people believe that the Book of Mormon was written by fairies and delivered to Joseph Smith in a series of enchanted mushroom cups. This belief has serious implications about the credibility of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

Here's a hint: your assertions have exactly the same methodological weaknesses.

Edited May 4, 2012 by selek1

[DWhitmer]

...what I see as a very serious flaw in your reasoning and presentation...no evidence to back up your assertion.

...your credibility.

As an example, can you point out...

If you would like to check my debate or logic skills open a new thread. Speak to the subject matter or move on.