56 replies to this topic

[KevinG]

It happened again.  Some anti-Mormon got to a newly baptized family in our ward.  They were active and their son was in my Scout troop.  Suddenly they won't allow their children contact with Mormons at all.

Clever strategy that: "Leave and don't contact anyone from the LDS church again."  What are they afraid of we might strain some of the poison from the well?

[Lost in Ohio]

I have seen this happen too.   I think when all is said and done they will find their "victory" a hollow one.

[cinepro]

That's very odd.  I've never seen anything like that happen.  Do you know any more about the situation?  Did they say anything about what "anti-Mormon" stuff they heard?

[KevinG]

cinepro, on 26 April 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

That's very odd.  I've never seen anything like that happen.  Do you know any more about the situation?  Did they say anything about what "anti-Mormon" stuff they heard?

I was reasonably close the the family through Scouting.  I did not get to hear the offending topic, it may have been a collection of topics.  It was at the hands of local clergy (I won't identify the religion because that is not the topic)  There was no communication or explanation to the Saints - just a sudden shunning.  (and yes that is the proper use of the word).

This is the second close friend in a decade pulled suddenly away.  The first was heavily into apologetics but had a very difficult home life.  My suspicions there were she got tired of defending something she was not getting the blessings of from her husband and children.  As in this case a woman who would ask me anything- talk about any subject suddenly cut herself off.

[KevinG]

This is why I dabble in apologetics.  To inoculate my family and friends from sudden shock and awe tactics.

[cdowis]

I am curious whether the home and visiting teachers had been visiting them on a regular basis.  Sometimes it is easy to forget those who are active, and assume that all is well.  I had been assigned as a home teacher to a counselor in the Elder's quorum.  After a few visits I discovered they were having a serious problem with the church.  Hopefully I was able to help them to work their way thru it, but I moved away and don't know what eventually happened

I try to greet and meet people before Sacrament meetings to let them know that someone is happy to see them, and would notice if they stopped coming.  I suspect that the family you mentioned found new friends elsewhere and when they stopped coming, perhaps it took awhile before anyone noticed.  Their new friends gave them advice, and they took it.

Edited by cdowis, 26 April 2012 - 12:27 PM.

[KevinG]

cdowis, on 26 April 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

I am curious whether the home and visiting teachers had been visiting them on a regular basis.  Sometimes it is easy to forget those who are active, and assume that all is well.  I had been assigned as a home teacher to a counselor in the Elder's quorum.  After a few visits I discovered they were having a serious problem with the church.  Hopefully I was able to help them to work their way thru it, but I moved away and don't know what eventually happened

I try to greet and meet people before Sacrament meetings to let them know that someone is happy to see them, and would notice if they stopped coming.  I suspect that the family you mentioned found new friends elsewhere and when they stopped coming, perhaps it took awhile before anyone noticed.  Their new friends gave them advice, and they took it.

cdowis, on 26 April 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

I am curious whether the home and visiting teachers had been visiting them on a regular basis.  Sometimes it is easy to forget those who are active, and assume that all is well.  I had been assigned as a home teacher to a counselor in the Elder's quorum.  After a few visits I discovered they were having a serious problem with the church.  Hopefully I was able to help them to work their way thru it, but I moved away and don't know what eventually happened

I try to greet and meet people before Sacrament meetings to let them know that someone is happy to see them, and would notice if they stopped coming.  I suspect that the family you mentioned found new friends elsewhere and when they stopped coming, perhaps it took awhile before anyone noticed.  Their new friends gave them advice, and they took it.

It happened within two weeks time.  But your advice is good.  We should not assume everyone is doing OK.

[T-Shirt]

cinepro, on 26 April 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

That's very odd.  I've never seen anything like that happen.  Do you know any more about the situation?  Did they say anything about what "anti-Mormon" stuff they heard?

The Stake Medium Council Blog.

[Log]

T-Shirt, on 26 April 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

The Stake Medium Council Blog.

A potentiality that I'm sure Cinepro would find most regretful if true.  (Or, more simply: OOOOOOHHHH SNAP!)

Edited by Log, 26 April 2012 - 12:39 PM.

[KevinG]

Ouch!

[Senator]

T-Shirt, on 26 April 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

The Stake Medium Council Blog.

You've got it out for Cinepro, don't ya?

[Pahoran]

KevinG, on 26 April 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

It happened again.  Some anti-Mormon got to a newly baptized family in our ward.  They were active and their son was in my Scout troop.  Suddenly they won't allow their children contact with Mormons at all.

Clever strategy that: "Leave and don't contact anyone from the LDS church again."  What are they afraid of we might strain some of the poison from the well?

Why shouldn't they be proud?  You don't expect them to have any qualms of conscience about this sort of behaviour, do you?

Regards,
Pahoran

[why me]

KevinG, on 26 April 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

It happened again.  Some anti-Mormon got to a newly baptized family in our ward.  They were active and their son was in my Scout troop.  Suddenly they won't allow their children contact with Mormons at all.

Clever strategy that: "Leave and don't contact anyone from the LDS church again."  What are they afraid of we might strain some of the poison from the well?

This family may not have had a testimony from the beginning. If they were willing to give it all up and shun their former friends and the church, it shows that they never had a good testimony of the gospel. Sad, but perhaps true. Usually, people with testimonies would check to see if what was said was true or get an explanation from a church source.

[Senator]

KevinG, on 26 April 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

Clever strategy that: "Leave and don't contact anyone from the LDS church again."  What are they afraid of we might strain some of the poison from the well?

Hey, at least they're not one of the "you can leave the church, but can't leave the church alone" types. That's a good thing, right?

[Xander]

KevinG, on 26 April 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

It happened again.  Some anti-Mormon got to a newly baptized family in our ward.  They were active and their son was in my Scout troop.  Suddenly they won't allow their children contact with Mormons at all.

Clever strategy that: "Leave and don't contact anyone from the LDS church again."  What are they afraid of we might strain some of the poison from the well?

According to Okrahomer, that's impossible. All the Mormons in the United States are self-avowed Mormons.

But more seriously, this is pretty much what happens when people are clued in on the things the Church should have told people in the beginning. Sorry, but it is the truth. I've seen it happen plenty of times and the Church and its membership know how important it is to keep new members close to their chest. It is why it is important for the Church to involve so much of a members life with Church activities throughout each week. If they're spending all their time with fellow believers, there is little chance for them to get a critical perspective of Mormonism.

You might take comfort in this silly notion that there is an "anti-Mormon" Church run by the Devil and that is has strange mystical powers over some of new members, but the more reasonable scenario here is that they were upset because they found out some things that the missionaries didn't tell them. The reason new members are more susceptible to such influences is because their conditioning process is still in its infancy.

Mormons call it a victory for anti-Mormonism (your boogy-man), but everyone else calls it a victory for critical thought. You cannot complain that they didn't hear your side. They did. But they were only persuaded when given a fraction of the information they needed to make an informed decision. That's really what it boils down to. They're ignoring Mormons now for the same reasons ex-Amway/Quixtar/Herbal-Life members generally ignore those groups as well. It usually isn't personal, but when it is, it is usually because they felt like they were intentionally misled.

Maybe the Church should look further into this when coming up with newer strategies for retention.

[Xander]

Senator, on 26 April 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

Hey, at least they're not one of the "you can leave the church, but can't leave the church alone" types. That's a good thing, right?

LOL.

Touche!

[Senator]

why me, on 26 April 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

This family may not have had a testimony from the beginning. If they were willing to give it all up and shun their former friends and the church, it shows that they never had a good testimony of the gospel. Sad, but perhaps true.

Would you say that is true of, say, Oliver Cowdery?

[why me]

cdowis, on 26 April 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

I am curious whether the home and visiting teachers had been visiting them on a regular basis.  Sometimes it is easy to forget those who are active, and assume that all is well.  I had been assigned as a home teacher to a counselor in the Elder's quorum.  After a few visits I discovered they were having a serious problem with the church.  Hopefully I was able to help them to work their way thru it, but I moved away and don't know what eventually happened

I try to greet and meet people before Sacrament meetings to let them know that someone is happy to see them, and would notice if they stopped coming.  I suspect that the family you mentioned found new friends elsewhere and when they stopped coming, perhaps it took awhile before anyone noticed.  Their new friends gave them advice, and they took it.

The problem here is simple: if they depend on others for a community feeling, they may not had a testimony of the gospel. People are not perfect and I am sure that they are now among imperfect people too. Something else happened. Most likely, someone discussed the problems with church history and what BY said in the discourses etc. This threw them for a loop and when they checked the internet and discovered the information for themselves, away they went. But by not talking with you about it or anyone else, shows some fault with them.

[BCSpace]

Quote

Hey, at least they're not one of the "you can leave the church, but can't leave the church alone" types. That's a good thing, right?

Not until they remove their names from the record.  Until then, we are stuck with trying to visit them on a regular basis.  Not that I shirk from that duty........

[Xander]

KevinG, on 26 April 2012 - 12:07 PM, said:

This is why I dabble in apologetics.  To inoculate my family and friends from sudden shock and awe tactics.

From what I've seen in apologetics, it does much more than that. It attempts to inoculate people from reason and truth. Just listen to some of the stuff people here say. Mfbukowski says we should literally invent our own truth. Whatever we need to maintain belief is good enough for him, because what really matters most is that you stay in the Church. Truth can be a friend or a nuisance, but it doesn't really matter which. Most others have embraced this pseudo-philosophy of thinking any possibility is good enough to justify belief. To this way of thinking, plausibility and probability are just rhetorical tactics used by critics. (i.e. "isn't it possible that Joseph Smith's scribes were trying to prove they could produce a translation of the BoA?")