Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
wenglund

The Book Of Abraham--A Spiritual Perspective

168 posts in this topic

I'm not ashamed of being a man either. I am ashamed of men who think that being a man gives them some sort of exclusive right to a position of service based on nothing but the shape of their genitalia, especially absent any actual argument in their favor.

While I believe there is a plethora of evidence in support of my perception (depending upon how one interprets the evidence--see, for instance the quote from Joseph Smith above), I don't wish for this thread to devolve into a battle of the sexes. And, so, I will just say let's respect our differences.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited by wenglund
0

Share this post


Link to post

I'm not ashamed of being a man either. I am ashamed of men who think that being a man gives them some sort of exclusive right to a position of service based on nothing but the shape of their genitalia, especially absent any actual argument in their favor.

So you disagree with this then?

All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.

http://www.lds.org/family/proclamation?lang=eng
0

Share this post


Link to post

While I believe there is a plethora of evidence in support of my perception (depending upon how one interprets the evidence--see, for instance the quote from Joseph Smith above), I don't wish for this thread to devolve into a battle of the sexes. And, so, I will just say let's respect our differences.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Sorry- didn't see this. My above question clearly has nothing to do with the BOA, so I withdraw it. Perhaps if Jeremy could answer it in a way which brings us back to the BOA it would be appropriate, with Wade's approval.

0

Share this post


Link to post

I can't say for sure, but I did a search of the History of the Church by Joseph Smith, and while I found mention of God as our "Heavenly Father" as early as May of 1829, and God was referred to as the Father of our spirits in January of 1834, it is uncertain whether the saints thought of these things in terms of a pre-existence, or as most Christians thought of them (as at the inception of our mortality).

Had they been reading their Bibles, perhaps "most Christians" should have seen it correctly.

Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

(Heb 12:9)
0

Share this post


Link to post

Actually, that is the root of the problem here. The issue that some of the ladies, and some of the more liberal men, have with patriarchy and priesthood is the perception of the priesthood conferring higher status upon someone.

It's all about them power and status issues and such, and not about the ability and duty to serve.

Priesthood is not merely the ability to serve. Anyone can serve. Priesthood is both a mystical power, and a social authority. You can say that those who have the priesthood are only trying to serve people, but that doesn't change the fact that they exercise authority over the people they serve, the same way a king exercises authority over his subjects. The only difference is that while a king may serve his people by enforcing temporal laws, the priest (except in a theocracy such as existed in the Utah territory under Brigham Young, or under Moses) may only serve his people by enforcing ecclesiastical laws. He may excommunicate you, subject you to church discipline, and withhold from you the blessings of heaven.

0

Share this post


Link to post

And, that contradicts or clarifies what I wrote... how, exactly?

0

Share this post


Link to post
This one is probably much better: https://byustudies.b...aspx?title=5879

I just finished reading this article, and it is good and echoes what I stated earlier, though understandably it goes into greater detail on the evolution of LDS beliefs in regards to the preexistence.

Of particular interest was the maturation of Joseph's own beliefs on the subject, which in some respects post-date by months and years some of the revelations he received on the subject--which indicates to me that he wasn't, as some may suppose, the author of those revelations, including the Book of Abraham. :good:

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

0

Share this post


Link to post
Had they been reading their Bibles, perhaps "most Christians" should have seen it correctly.

(Heb 12:9)

As seemingly self-evident as that passage may appear to you and me, the article posted earlier by calmoriah and quoted in my post above, explains how most Christians, and for a time even LDS, reasonably interpreted passages like this in ways consistent with their dis-belief or lack of belief in the preexistence of mankind. Very interesting.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

0

Share this post


Link to post

Priesthood is not merely the ability to serve. Anyone can serve. Priesthood is both a mystical power, and a social authority. You can say that those who have the priesthood are only trying to serve people, but that doesn't change the fact that they exercise authority over the people they serve, the same way a king exercises authority over his subjects. The only difference is that while a king may serve his people by enforcing temporal laws, the priest (except in a theocracy such as existed in the Utah territory under Brigham Young, or under Moses) may only serve his people by enforcing ecclesiastical laws. He may excommunicate you, subject you to church discipline, and withhold from you the blessings of heaven.

I guess you don't give many priesthood blessings.

It's hard to imagine an Elder's quorum president excommunicating anyone.

And boy, visiting the sick and listening to problems- there's a good example of enforcing ecclesiastical laws. Yessiree.

0

Share this post


Link to post

I guess you don't give many priesthood blessings.

It's hard to imagine an Elder's quorum president excommunicating anyone.

And boy, visiting the sick and listening to problems- there's a good example of enforcing ecclesiastical laws. Yessiree.

The Elder's Quorum president is an example of an "all service, no authority" calling within the priesthood. Certainly, a very thankless job. But the Elder's Quorum is still the supreme authority in matters governing the elder's quorum. Also, the Elder's Quorum president, and even a male priesthood holder without a calling, is understood to have more authority within his family than his wife, even if she is the General Relief Society President. Though he is expected to receive counsel from his subordinates in the family, ultimately, he has the final say.

"In the home the presiding authority is always vested in the father, and in all home affairs and family matters, there is no other authority paramount." Joseph F. Smith, 1902.
"Let us begin by saying that a Latter-day Saint husband or father presides over his wife and family in much the same way a bishop, stake president, or elders quorum president presides over the specific group to which he is called." (
)
Edited by Cobalt-70
0

Share this post


Link to post

Had they been reading their Bibles, perhaps "most Christians" should have seen it correctly - Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? (Heb 12:9)

Considering the way you interpret Hebrews 12:9, let's look at another passage:

"Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness,

neither shadow of turning" (James 1:17).

What does Father of lights mean?

Thanks,

Jim

0

Share this post


Link to post

Considering the way you interpret Hebrews 12:9, let's look at another passage:

"Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness,

neither shadow of turning" (James 1:17).

What does Father of lights mean?

Thanks,

Jim

Those who have the light of Christ.

Conscience is a manifestation of the Light of Christ, enabling us to judge good from evil. The prophet Mormon taught: “The Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God. . . . And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged” (Moroni 7:16, 18).

http://www.lds.org/study/topics/light-of-christ?lang=eng

0

Share this post


Link to post

Wait a minute - The Earth was built somewhere else in the universe and shipped to it's current orbit? Does anyone else think this sounds like Magrathea, from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Sorry- didn't see this. My above question clearly has nothing to do with the BOA, so I withdraw it. Perhaps if Jeremy could answer it in a way which brings us back to the BOA it would be appropriate, with Wade's approval.

On a related Book of Abraham matter, which touches somewhat on the so-called gender issues, among several others, is the general precept of equality. I dare say that in the last century or so, if not longer, this notion has gained increasing importance around the world, and for some people it seems to be of paramount importance.

I am sure there are a lot of viable reasons to explain why this precept has become so prominent and elevated in our collective mind, though I don't personally wish to discuss them here.

What is pertinent to me and this thread, however, is that with as much importance as has been given to the precept of equality, what is to be made of the passage in the Book of Abraham which says: "If atwo things exist, and there be one above the other, there shall be greater things above them...These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am amore intelligent than they all"? (Abr. 3:16,19)

The entire chapter seems to speak of inequality in governing and also ordinal rankings using the stars and planets as a metaphor.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited by wenglund
0

Share this post


Link to post

The entire chapter seems to speak of inequality in governing and also ordinal rankings using the stars and planets as a metaphor.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I totally agree; there are and will be those who qualify for different kingdoms, obviously. As I see it "equality" of the sexes is one question and the other is gender roles.

It is no illusion that women are different than men, and I think that relates to the whole notion of the dialectical nature of reality, unity of opposites, opposition in all things, yin and yang, etc. I have no problem with gender roles and think they are God given and meant to be complimentary and could argue the point endlessly but obviously won't. ;) at least not here.

But I agree with you about the ranking of the planets- and of course we know well the analogy of the glory of the sun, moon, and stars with unequal ranking.

0

Share this post


Link to post
I have no problem with gender roles and think they are God given and meant to be complimentary and could argue the point endlessly but obviously won't. ;) at least not here.
It will be very interesting to me to find out what gender roles are a result of eternal gender differences and what were 'assigned' us (God given) in order to better advance the purpose of God (to bring joy).
0

Share this post


Link to post

I totally agree; there are and will be those who qualify for different kingdoms, obviously. As I see it "equality" of the sexes is one question and the other is gender roles.

It is no illusion that women are different than men, and I think that relates to the whole notion of the dialectical nature of reality, unity of opposites, opposition in all things, yin and yang, etc. I have no problem with gender roles and think they are God given and meant to be complimentary and could argue the point endlessly but obviously won't. ;) at least not here.

But I agree with you about the ranking of the planets- and of course we know well the analogy of the glory of the sun, moon, and stars with unequal ranking.

For that matter, the precept of progression, which is essential to the gospel, in some respects flies in the face of equality. It is intended that what we may have become today, and may yet become tomorrow, ought not be equal to, but rather much better in many ways, to what we were yesterday. :good:

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

0

Share this post


Link to post

Is the heart equal to the mind? To me, in some respects the heart is superior to the mind, and in other respects the mind is superior to the heart, and each are remarkably different (not equal) in shape and function from each other. Both are vital, but not equal.

Would it make sense for the heart to take on the role of the mind, or vice versa? To me, each are far better suited for their respective natural, God-given roles.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

0

Share this post


Link to post

One can live without emotion, but can one live without thought (in the sense of actually functioning).

However, what gives value to any experience is the emotional or affective content so who would really want to live without emotion?

(The Vulcan choice to promote logic over emotion was an emotional choice......;))

Edited by calmoriah
0

Share this post


Link to post

One can live without emotion, but can one live without thought (in the sense of actually functioning).

However, what gives value to any experience is the emotional or affective content so who would really want to live without emotion?

(The Vulcan choice to promote logic over emotion was an emotional choice...... ;))

I was thinking of the heart in both the literal and figurative sense of the word, but even still your point is well taken.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

0

Share this post


Link to post

On a related Book of Abraham matter, which touches somewhat on the so-called gender issues, among several others, is the general precept of equality. I dare say that in the last century or so, if not longer, this notion has gained increasing importance around the world, and for some people it seems to be of paramount importance.

I am sure there are a lot of viable reasons to explain why this precept has become so prominent and elevated in our collective mind, though I don't personally wish to discuss them here.

What is pertinent to me and this thread, however, is that with as much importance as has been given to the precept of equality, what is to be made of the passage in the Book of Abraham which says: "If atwo things exist, and there be one above the other, there shall be greater things above them...These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am amore intelligent than they all"? (Abr. 3:16,19)

The entire chapter seems to speak of inequality in governing and also ordinal rankings using the stars and planets as a metaphor.

I think quite the opposite. The chapter puts God and humanity on the same scale, which makes them equal. There are no glass ceilings for humanity as there are in other Christian faiths. God wants us to be equal to himself.

On your broader point, "equality" is not just some newfangled secular idea. Acts 10:34: "God is no respector of persons." Galatians 3:28: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." 2 Cor. 8:14: "At the present time your plenty will supply what they need, so that in turn their plenty will supply what you need. Then there will be equality." Mosiah 27:3: "And there was a strict command throughout all the churches that there should be no persecutions among them, that there should be an equality among all men." 4 Nephi 1:3: "And they had all things in common among them; therefore there were not rich and poor, bond and free, but they were all made free, and partakers of the heavenly gift." D&C 78:6: "For if ye are not equal in earthly things ye cannot be equal in obtaining heavenly things."

0

Share this post


Link to post

[Edit: Well, it appears Cobalt beat me to the punch while I was typing.]

In the last century or so, if not longer, this notion [of 'the general precept of equality'] has gained increasing importance around the world, and for some people it seems to be of paramount importance.

As this very thread shows, equity is not a concern which has gained particularly great importance, prominence, or elevation in our collective mind in "modern" times at all.

Dictionary.com says that equity is "the quality of being fair or impartial; fairness; impartiality: the equity of Solomon. Synonyms: disinterest, equitableness, impartiality, fair-mindedness, fairness, justness, evenhandedness, objectivity; justice, probity. Antonyms: bias, discrimination, inequity, injustice, partiality, partisanship, prejudice, unfairness, unreasonableness; injustice."

Since it specifically names Solomon, let's start with him: King Solomon spoke his Proverbs so that his hearers would come to know Lady Wisdom and honor their Father and Mother by keeping their instruction and perceiving the words of understanding: "To receive the Instruction of Wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity." (Proverbs 1:3) "Then shalt thou understand righteousness, and judgment, and equity; yea, every good path." (Proverbs 2:9)

("Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets!" Proverbs 1:20)

As Ecclesiastes 2:21 says, "for there is a man whose labour is in Wisdom, and in knowledge, and in equity; yet to a man that hath not laboured therein shall he leave it for his portion. This also is vanity and a great evil."

In Ezekiel 18, the Lord asks "O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal? Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord God. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin."

Isaiah seems pretty concerned with equality, too; "with righteousness shall [Yahweh] judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth." (11:4 -- and also 2 Nephi 21:4 and 30:9)

"Our transgressions are multiplied before thee [God], and our sins testify against us: for our transgressions are with us; and as for our iniquities, we know them; in transgressing and lying against Yahweh, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood. And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter." (Isaiah 59:12)

Malachi 2:6 says that "the law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity."

Psalms 98:8 says "let the hills be joyful together before Yahweh; for he cometh to judge the earth: with righteousness shall he judge the world, and the people with equity." And Psalms 99:4 continues to say that "the king’s strength also loveth judgment; thou dost establish equity, thou executest judgment and righteousness in Jacob."

"And not many days hence the Son of God shall come in his glory; and his glory shall be the glory of the Only Begotten of the Father, full of grace, equity, and truth, full of patience, mercy, and long-suffering, quick to hear the cries of his people and to answer their prayers." (Alma 9:26)

"Yea, well doth he cry, by the voice of his angels that: I will come down among my people, with equity and justice in my hands." (Alma 10:21)

"And they began again to prosper and to wax great; and the twenty and sixth and seventh years passed away, and there was great order in the land; and they had formed their laws according to equity and justice." (3 Nephi 6:4)

"Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven." (Colossians 4:)

"Neither can [people of the next world] die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection." (Luke 20:36)

As members of the Church, we've also Covenanted to uphold certain Doctrines; for instance, we are to "present the case, after the evidence is examined, in its true light before the council; and every man is to speak according to equity and justice." (D&C 102:16)

"In your temporal things you shall be equal, and this not grudgingly, otherwise the abundance of the manifestations of the Spirit shall be withheld." (D&C 70:14) "For if ye are not equal in earthly things ye cannot be equal in obtaining heavenly things." (D&C 78:6)

And as far as our public civic life is concerned: "We believe that all governments necessarily require civil officers and magistrates to enforce the laws of the same; and that such as will administer the law in equity and justice should be sought for and upheld by the voice of the people if a republic, or the will of the sovereign." (D&C 134:3)

So yes, correct, it's true that for some people equality seems to be of paramount importance. "Hear this, I pray you, ye heads of the house of Jacob, and princes of the house of Israel, that abhor judgment, and pervert all equity." (Micah 3:9)

"These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day." (Matthew 20:12)

"Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God." (John 5:18) As if that wasn't enough, He also asked Mary to "go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." For "Wisdom is justified of all her children." (Luke 7:35)

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men." (Philippians 2:6)

"The saints shall be filled with his glory, and receive their inheritance and be made equal with him." (D&C 88:107) "They who dwell in his presence are the church of the Firstborn; and they see as they are seen, and know as they are known, having received of his fulness and of his grace; and he makes them equal in power, and in might, and in dominion." (D&C 76:94)

This is where the Radical Freedom and Equality of the Book of Abraham comes in.

The quote above from Abraham 3 excises with a tragic ellipsis the most vital part of that lesson, which comes in at verse 18: "If there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal."

Utterly mindblowing. Our mere smarts are not the core part of us. The Gospel of Intelligences teaches that despite superficial gender-based biological differences, superficial differences in wisdom, differences in all worldly things, that the fundamental spark of Intelligence which each individual fundamentally is is eternal and self-existing and therefore no one, not a single God, can claim that enforced inequities are just.

God is the most intelligent spark of Intelligence, and yet He doesn't use that to enforce "roles"; instead, He wants to bring us all up to inherit all He has. He was once a man like us, growing from one small degree to another after worlds came rolling into existence, and He uses His greater wisdom to help others evolve into the best versions of themselves that they can be.

"Thus they become high priests forever, after the order of the Son, the Only Begotten of the Father, who is without beginning of days or end of years, who is full of grace, equity, and truth. And thus it is. Amen." (Alma 13:9)

As humankind's advocate, Christ's work is to save our world by teaching us to become as Good as He and the Father and the Mother and everyone else in the Divine Council have already done. Then the Kingdom in Heaven and the Kingdom on Earth can blend together and unite and we can take part fully in the At-One-Ment of all Uncreated Intelligences because we will become one-in-heart by upholding the Plan of Salvation, which mission is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of all Uncreated Intelligences in glorified tabernacles, shining bodily temples. God doesn't want to enforce inequities, He wants to abolish them.

As Bushman writes, "the universe is a school for these free, self-existing intelligences. [Joseph Smith taught that] God, finding 'himself in the midst of spirit and glory because he was greater[,] saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself.' God nurtures the intelligences, giving them laws to help them progress to greater capacity. 'God has power to institute laws to instruct the weaker intelligences that thay may be exhalted with himself.' He is their teacher, not their maker. Each one is free to choose."

This is not the strict enforcement of some gender-based "role" -- the only "role" humans have is to be saviors of humanity, lest we be as salt that has lost its savor and is thenceforth good for nothing but to be cast out and trodden underfoot. When we accept the Gospel, the Plan of Salvation, we commit to being the Saviors of Humanity in whatever way we can -- ie, we all take upon ourselves the name of Christ -- "Anointed One" -- "that every [person] might speak in the name of God the Lord ["Anointed One"], even the Savior of the world." (D&C 1:20)

There are quite enough beautiful biological differences between people to get all the beautiful dialectical symbolism of light and dark, yin and yang, right and left, alchemical marriages, opposition in all things, etc., without inventing rigid "roles" for each other that must be adhered to lest we be thought unnatural.

The scriptures we have upheld by common consent do not list a single instance of the word "role". The word simply does not appear, and any "God-given" roles must therefore be inferred, and usually inaccurately. Certainly there are a lot of "roles" one could infer for men from Leviticus that we would be horrified to uphold today. There is no instance of a God-given "woman's place" or a "man's place". Zip. I know men who are "nurturing" and women who are "aggressive." I've never known a single stereotype of gender to be accurate across the board.

The principle of eternal progression means that inequities will be overcome - for instance, we have progressed since the days of Exodus from bartering women like cattle to occasionally treating each other as, y'know, vaguely equal, every now and then, when we're feeling generous. Witness the fact that Utah was among the first to grant women suffrage. It'd be nice if our communal progression wasn't so vehemently opposed from some quarters.

Edited by JeremyOrbe-Smith
1

Share this post


Link to post
I think quite the opposite. The chapter puts God and humanity on the same scale, which makes them equal.

Both a 300 lb man and a 100 lb man may be weighed by the same scale. Using the same scale doesn't make them equal, certainly not in terms of weight. But, I am familiar with the way in which you seem to interpret statements that clearly say up, to mean down, metaphorically speaking. How you can read equality into a passage filled with expression of divergent governance, divergent times and manor of reckoning, greater and lessor, above and below, etc. is a mystery to me. But, as always, to each their own.

There are no glass ceilings for humanity as there are in other Christian faiths. God wants us to be equal to himself.

As far as I can recall, God doesn't say he wishes for us to become equal to him. Instead, he says he wishes for us to become one with him. Two very different, non-equal, precepts in my estimation.

On your broader point, "equality" is not just some newfangled secular idea. Acts 10:34: "God is no respector of persons." Galatians 3:28: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." 2 Cor. 8:14: "At the present time your plenty will supply what they need, so that in turn their plenty will supply what you need. Then there will be equality." Mosiah 27:3: "And there was a strict command throughout all the churches that there should be no persecutions among them, that there should be an equality among all men." 4 Nephi 1:3: "And they had all things in common among them; therefore there were not rich and poor, bond and free, but they were all made free, and partakers of the heavenly gift." D&C 78:6: "For if ye are not equal in earthly things ye cannot be equal in obtaining heavenly things."

While some of the passages you quoted don't actually speak to equality (certainly not in the way some understand the term today), one cannot reasonably interpret my comments as suggesting that the precept of equality had no place in the world or in the scriptures more than a century ago. I was very careful to state things in such a way as to avoid that mistaken perception. Instead, the careful reader will see that I spoke to the marked increase in importance of the precept over the last century.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

0

Share this post


Link to post
As far as I can recall, God doesn't say he wishes for us to become equal to him. Instead, he says he wishes for us to become one with him. Two very different, non-equal, precepts in my estimation.

Nope. As I noted above: "The saints shall be filled with his glory, and receive their inheritance and be made equal with him." (D&C 88:107) "They who dwell in his presence are the church of the Firstborn; and they see as they are seen, and know as they are known, having received of his fulness and of his grace; and he makes them equal in power, and in might, and in dominion." (D&C 76:94)

1

Share this post


Link to post

Is the heart equal to the mind? To me, in some respects the heart is superior to the mind, and in other respects the mind is superior to the heart, and each are remarkably different (not equal) in shape and function from each other. Both are vital, but not equal.

Would it make sense for the heart to take on the role of the mind, or vice versa? To me, each are far better suited for their respective natural, God-given roles.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Exactly, and I would extend this to areas of discourse as well. Religion and science, in my opinion, have little to do with each other and often end up "speaking past" each other. They each have different goals and objectives and serve different purposes.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.