Norm Chow Blocking Mormon Player From Byu Transfer (And Byu Only)

[wenglund]

But I stand by my characterization of MLM's as a fraudulent business model.

OK, let's see what you got.

They enrich a few to the detriment of many.

So does Walmart.

They are the least efficient way to distribute a product, requiring a markup far above what you would see in a retail setting due to the many layers of commission that must be paid.

OK, it is more expensive than Walmart, but so is Kay's Jewelry -- there are many levels of middle-men, commissions, etc in the sale of diamonds. Anyway, how is this "fraudulent", as you claim?

So far, you are batting zero, but keep going.

The fact that they thrive in Utah is a blight on the name of our great state, and to a degree, on the culture that perpetrates their continued success.

So, it is "fraudulent" because you say so. Why don't you call the police?

Not to derail this thread too much further, but to me, what make MLM's problematic and potentially fraudulent is the same thing that makes certain pyramid schemes and chain letters problematic: 1) they blur the lines between buyer and sell, and 2) they blur the lines of what is being sold--goods and services or marketing structures; which can 3) wreck havoc on the demand/supply curve and cause all sorts of inefficiencies, and most critically, and depending upon how the MLM is structured 4) at a certain generation of the down-line, they would need to sell the marketing scheme to in excess of the worlds population (an impossibility) in order to recover their investment, not to mention the enormous and dis-beneficial strain it puts on family and friend relationships.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Buzzard]

Buzzard, on 25 April 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

But I stand by my characterization of MLM's as a fraudulent business model.

OK, let's see what you got.

This is one challenge that is too easy to rise to. You cannot say you didn't ask for it.

They enrich a few to the detriment of many.

So does Walmart.

No, over a million people are employed by WalMart. The majority don't make a lot, usually 8-10 dollars per hour, but they do make something, and every WalMart has 3-5 managers makling 50-180K/year. Warehouse, Headquarters, plus district and regional staffs make decent compensation. They run lean as do most retailers these day, but at least every employee makes more working for WalMart than they spend for the privilege of working there. Unfortunately, the cannot said of of MLM's. A business professor at BYU who actually spent a year as a MLM distributor gathered information from MLM corporate documents. His results are here, near the bottom of the page: http://mlm-thetruth....shocking-stats/ , To summarize his findings, 99% of MLM distributors spend more on expenses than they take in from commissions. Literally, the only people who make money from MLM's are the founders and the very top layers. Their homes and cars are bought with the dues and signup fees and monthly autoships of everyone beneath them, who are lead to believe they can partake in the same affluence, while it is mathematically impossible.

They are the least efficient way to distribute a product, requiring a markup far above what you would see in a retail setting due to the many layers of commission that must be paid.

OK, it is more expensive than Walmart, but so is Kay's Jewelry -- there are many levels of middle-men, commissions, etc in the sale of diamonds. Anyway, how is this "fraudulent", as you claim?

I understand the difference in retail markup between a discounter and a specialty merchant. But let me give you a concrete example. The company I work for today manufactures and distributes many lines of merchandise. But their original product upon founding was a line of vitamins and supplements. Today, you can buy that product on my companies website for 64.95 for a months supply. And trust me, we make a nice profit on the retail sale of that product. We wholesale it for less, and make a reasonable margin on those sales as well.

Back when the company was young, before I worked there, they were struggling to find avenues of distribution. For a while, they tried MLM distribution, but the quality of the product meant that it quickly found it's way into legitimate retail channels, which offered the promise of higher volume than being another MLM vitamin and supplement company. The retail of those 64.95 vitamins under MLM distribution, over a decade ago? $160. To price it for less would have meant that all the layers of commission built into the eventual retail delivery could not have been profitably paid. I'll leave to you to decide if the pricing structure required in an MLM is reasonable and proper, or approaches usury, and yes, fraud.

So far, you are batting zero, but keep going.

My batting average, I humbly submit, would seem to be higher than the chance of making a living-or even a reasonable side income-as an MLM distributor.

The fact that they thrive in Utah is a blight on the name of our great state, and to a degree, on the culture that perpetrates their continued success.

So, it is "fraudulent" because you say so. Why don't you call the police?

Because long before I showed up, MLM's, and their lawyers and political donations persuaded the powers that be to leave them alone. That being said, more than one MLM tycoon has found himself on the wrong side of jail bars. Here: http://en.wikipedia....i/Kevin_Trudeau And here: http://www.mlmwatchdog.com ./Report_Global_pros_Scam.html

Unfortunately, my opinion is not universally held in our fair state and country. But you may be assured it is not an uninformed nor lightly arrived at.

EVERYONE get back on topic if you want to stay in the thread..

[Hamilton Porter]

Not to derail this thread too much further, but to me, what make MLM's problematic and potentially fraudulent is the same thing that makes certain pyramid schemes and chain letters problematic: 1) they blur the lines between buyer and sell, and 2) they blur the lines of what is being sold--goods and services or marketing structures; which can 3) wreck havoc on the demand/supply curve and cause all sorts of inefficiencies, and most critically, and depending upon how the MLM is structured 4) at a certain generation of the down-line, they would need to sell the marketing scheme to in excess of the worlds population (an impossibility) in order to recover their investment, not to mention the enormous and dis-beneficial strain it puts on family and friend relationships.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I disagree with this. Walmart enriches us all.

Nelson

BA, Economics (BYU '05)

[Jaybear]

I'm pretty sure he will have to sit out a year according to NCAA rules. I couldn't quote you the rule though.

Its called the Riley Nielsen rule, named after current BYU starting QB for whom arrangements were made to transfer from Utah State to BYU while he was serving a mission, where he was immediately allowed to play.

The players were allowed to transfer at that time without sitting a year. The NCAA rules are fairly complicated but my guess is Norm got tired of losing players to BYU after returning from a mission.

What players has Norm lost to BYU following a mission? Ben Olsen went to UCLA to play with Norm. Jake Murphy transferred to Utah to play for Norm.

The stuff that goes on beteween coaches, teams, conferences and the NCAA is crazy and any well versed coach will use the rules to his advantage. It's not just a Norm thing.

.... and some programs break the rules. If Wadsworth knew he had a scholarship waiting for him, despite not having an offer out of high school, someone brook the rules.

My guess is that Norm said anywhere but BYU, because he believes BYU broke/bent the rules.

[Buzzard]

EVERYONE get back on topic if you want to stay in the thread..

Sorry about that. It's just one of my pet peeves, I do tend to go off when the subject comes up. On an unrelated note, Norm Chow can't seem to forget that he was passed over for Head Coach when LaVell Edwards retired, and since then has tried to gig BYU any chance he gets, even though he coached there for 30+ years.

[Doug the Hutt]

Smac97's OP quoting the original article contained this tidbit regarding missions:

Wadsworth recorded a number of special teams tackles in 2009, but has spent the last two years on his church-mandated mission. His family denies BYU coaches contacted him about transferring during his time away. He has three years worth of football eligibility left. Coming out of high school, he was recruited by Arizona, BYU and Utah, but his best offers came from Arizona State and Hawai'i.

The original article mentions nothing about his mission being "mandated":

Wadsworth recorded a number of special teams tackles in 2009, but has spent the last two years on his church mission. His family denies BYU coaches contacted him about transferring during his time away. He has three years worth of football eligibility left. Coming out of high school, he was recruited by Arizona, BYU and Utah, but his best offers came from Arizona State and Hawai'i.

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2012/4/25/2973908/hawaii-mormon-player-byu-transfer-norm-chow

Smac97, assuming the website didn't alter the verbiage, what did you seek to prove by putting words in the author's mouth and making it appear that the author has a view of the Church that makes him think that God (through the Church) commands/mandates/requires people to go on missions?

[wenglund]

I disagree with this. Walmart enriches us all.

Nelson

BA, Economics (BYU '05)

Walmart isn't an MLM. My comments were specific to MLMs. With that correction out of the way, let's get back on topic.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[KevinG]

Mandated?

Missionaries are not allowed to date women or men while serving.

[KevinG]

Chow just hates the idea of Wadsworth lining up against his team and the risk of getting his quarterback broken in half. It is all about self preservation.

[Hamilton Porter]

I have known John Wadsworth and several of his brothers for years. John is without doubt one of the finest, most honest individuals in the Church. He and his wife have 11 children and a growing number of grandchildren. He has served faithfully in Bishoprics, Stake Presidencies and as a Mission President. His personal history is compelling and includes great personal hardship--including the death of both parents when he was very young. Since his mother was President Hinckley's younger sister, the Hinckley's stepped in (along with other family members) to help the older siblings keep the family together. There is much--very much--to admire and appreciate about this exceptional family.

As far as I know, there is absolutely nothing about his business or personal life that would prevent him from worthily entering the House of the Lord. It seems unfair and inappropriate to call upon negative MLM stereoptypes in order to pass judgement here.

Is that their sales pitch? I'm not buying it.

[Pahoran]

Smac97's OP quoting the original article contained this tidbit regarding missions:

Wadsworth recorded a number of special teams tackles in 2009, but has spent the last two years on his church-mandated mission. His family denies BYU coaches contacted him about transferring during his time away. He has three years worth of football eligibility left. Coming out of high school, he was recruited by Arizona, BYU and Utah, but his best offers came from Arizona State and Hawai'i.

The original article mentions nothing about his mission being "mandated":

Wadsworth recorded a number of special teams tackles in 2009, but has spent the last two years on his church mission. His family denies BYU coaches contacted him about transferring during his time away. He has three years worth of football eligibility left. Coming out of high school, he was recruited by Arizona, BYU and Utah, but his best offers came from Arizona State and Hawai'i.

http://www.sbnation....nsfer-norm-chow

Smac97, assuming the website didn't alter the verbiage, what did you seek to prove by putting words in the author's mouth and making it appear that the author has a view of the Church that makes him think that God (through the Church) commands/mandates/requires people to go on missions?

I read it yesterday; it said "church-mandated mission."

Why did you assume that Smac had put words in anyone's mouth? Don't you know how easy it is to edit an electronic document?

Regards,

Pahoran

[Okrahomer]

Is that their sales pitch? I'm not buying it.

Whose sales pitch? Which part don't you "buy"?

[Hamilton Porter]

Whose sales pitch? Which part don't you "buy"?

Noni juice's sales pitch? This CEO is a great guy?

[Okrahomer]

Noni juice's sales pitch? This CEO is a great guy?

No. It's just mine, so I’ll own it. I think if you had the chance to meet him and know more about him and his family, you'd find him to be a great guy too.

P.S. I actually know one of his brothers better. He's a terrific fellow as well.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Okrahomer

[Log]

All great salesmen seem to be great guys. They could hardly be successful if they appeared otherwise.

[Ares]

The MLM discussion is closed and those who continued it are taking a break for 24 hours. Don't ignore the mods!