62 replies to this topic

[BCSpace]

The chancellor here is Jerry Falwell Jr. who invited Romney to speak.

Quote

By Friday morning, more than 700 comments had been posted on the school's Facebook page about the Thursday announcement - a majority of them decidedly against the Chancellor Jerry Falwell Jr.’s invitation, citing that the school had taught them Mormonism isn’t part of the Christian faith.

“I can’t support Romney and I am happy I decided not to walk (in the commencement) this year,” wrote student Josh Bergmann. “Liberty University should have gotten a Christian to speak not someone who practices a cult. Shame on you Liberty University.”

Janet Loeffler, a 53-year-old freshman at Liberty, expressed her anger at the decision when contacted by CNN. She also sent a copy of the page of the freshman textbook “The Popular Encyclopedia of Apologetics” which includes the passage, “Mormon doctrine stands in stark contrast to Jewish and Christian monotheism, which teaches that there is only one true God and that every other ‘God’ is a false god.”

Loeffler’s daughter, Sarah Misch, 33, of Unionville, Virginia, who is also a student at the school said, “I am glad I am not graduating this year. I would not want to end my studies at a Christian university by being sent in to the world at commencement by a Mormon. We came to Liberty because of our faith in Jesus; not for political reasons.”

Holly Stanton Morgan, another student, posted to Facebook, “I am glad that my husband and I won’t be attending his commencement. Mormonism is not Christianity. My commencement is next year. Hopefully they choose more wisely.”

Mark DeMoss, a Liberty graduate, member of the Board of Trustees and a senior adviser to the Romney campaign, said on Friday, “We have had a Jewish commencement speaker, we have had a Catholic commencement speaker, and so, I think people are certainly entitled to their opinion. Social Media certainly provides an outlet for people’s opinions, but I think it is a great thing for the university.”

..............................................

Not all Facebook comments were negative, though. Tom Johnson added, “Mitt Romney has been invited to give a motivational speech, not a religious sermon. His religious beliefs do not have anything to do with his ability to give a motivational speech at commencement.”

And Kathy Creech added, “I, for one, am pleased that the future President of the United States will be speaking there!”

http://religion.blog...udent-response/

I think most will show up anyway.  Curiosity will kill this cat.  And, unlike some at other colleges we can think of, I predict the audience here will politely listen.

Edited by BCSpace, 23 April 2012 - 09:57 AM.

[calmoriah]

Quote

citing that the school had taught them Mormonism isn’t part of the Christian faith

Hardly surprising the reaction considering this...

Did they have the same protests for the Jewish speaker?

I wonder if they teach that Catholicism is a pagan religion as it seems strange that having a Catholic speaker is included with the "nonChristian" speakers (LDS and Jewish).

Edited by calmoriah, 23 April 2012 - 10:33 AM.

[thesometimesaint]

Romney can speak wherever he is invited. However I'd have serious reservations about any invitation from that "Christian" school.

[CQUIRK]

Most of the nasty comments left on their facebook page were not from those that attended the college I heard, but from basically anyone (including your typical drive-by troll), that happened to be friends with the university's facebook page and certainly love to bash the church online.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I applaud Liberty for inviting him.  I am not surprised though by some of the students out rage. I think that Jerry Jr is trying to build more bridges. This is an interesting story. Having served my mission were I met a lot of Liberty students and adherents to Thomas Rhodes Baptist church. Nice people in general. I talk with the Dean at Liberty. Nice guy.

[USU78]

Mola Ram Suda Ram, on 25 April 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

I applaud Liberty for inviting him.  I am not surprised though by some of the students out rage. I think that Jerry Jr is trying to build more bridges. This is an interesting story. Having served my mission were I met a lot of Liberty students and adherents to Thomas Rhodes Baptist church. Nice people in general. I talk with the Dean at Liberty. Nice guy.

Jerry Jr. is apparently a greater son than his bigot of a father.  My wife was the only Mormon in her high school in Lynchburg, the home of Liberty U.  She was pretty badly treated, the Church had only recently sent missionaries back into Lynchburg at the point she joined (they were subject still to getting roughed-up and shot at and whatnot through the '60s).  Jerry himself famously burned a Book of Mormon at his pulpit in his church there in Lynchburg.

BUT you're right to have hope.  Back in about 1952 my father got a job in a town in northern CA with a very influential Baptist padre.  That padre pushed his families to refuse their permission to play for the new Mormon high school football coach.  The players ignored him and so did the parents.  The padre went farther, but without success to attack my family and force them from the town.  By the time we left in 1954, the padre had a change of heart:  he blocked my folks' ability to back their packed up vehicle from the driveway and, in tears, asked for my father's forgiveness for what he'd done:  "I didn't know you.  What they taught me in divinity school was not true.  Please forgive me."

Sometimes it takes a generation.  Jerry Sr. was a liar, but he was lied to as well.  I like to think that he's been brought up to speed by now.

[volgadon]

Wonderful post, welcome back.

[Ryan.Samples]

Mola Ram Suda Ram, on 25 April 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

I applaud Liberty for inviting him.

And why exactly do you applaud the school for inviting him?

[Ryan.Samples]

CQUIRK, on 24 April 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

Most of the nasty comments left on their facebook page were not from those that attended the college I heard, but from basically anyone (including your typical drive-by troll), that happened to be friends with the university's facebook page and certainly love to bash the church online.

The nasty comments perhaps, but I assure you the student body is none too pleased with this decision and they too were out in force on the page.

[Ryan.Samples]

thesometimesaint, on 23 April 2012 - 11:23 AM, said:

Romney can speak wherever he is invited. However I'd have serious reservations about any invitation from that "Christian" school.

Care to elaborate on your use of quotation marks there? Very curious about the point you're driving home.

[Stargazer]

Ryan.Samples, on 27 April 2012 - 07:31 PM, said:

Care to elaborate on your use of quotation marks there? Very curious about the point you're driving home.

I'm not trying to speak for TSS, but there may be some resentment among some LDS here on this board towards the school for its attitude regarding members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  One might even say that the attitude is an un-Christlike attitude.  Which may possibly explain the quote marks in TSS's post.  Please understand that I don't particularly care that the official theology of Liberty excludes the LDS Church from its definition of "Christian" -- the quote marks in this case are intended to indicate that a word's definition is being referred to.  Liberty is entitled to its definitions, even if I don't agree with them.

But getting their knickers in a knot over a visit by a member of the LDS church?  He's not there to discuss theology.  It is possible he may be the next President of the United States, and his visit is in connection with this possibility.  Are these protesting students such purists that they cannot abide a member of another faith come to speak regarding a matter which will impact them?  What is Liberty, anyway, some kind of Christian Madrasa?

I understand that Joe Lieberman, a Jew, came to Liberty during his presidential campaign.  Did he get such treatment?  Perhaps when he came as a Presidential candidate Facebook didn't exist, but did he get protested, too?

What is the point of the protesting, anyway?  "We hate Mormons!"?

One of my sons is married to the daughter of a Baptist minister.  This gentleman, knowing my son is at least on paper LDS, cheerfully told him once that if he were ever driving down a road and saw 2 Mormon elders riding their bicycles along the side, that he would run them down if he thought there weren't any witnesses.  Is this the spirit of "Christianity"?  Would any of these fine Liberty students feel the same way?

[blackstrap]

For all the openmindedness that is supposed to exemplify the university environment,there sure are a lot of attempts to stiffle speech ,particularly  some on the right of the political spectrum. If students are that upset,then don't go to the speech.The tape of an empty house would serve their cause better.Politicians can take almost anything except being ignored.

[Ryan.Samples]

Stargazer, on 27 April 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

Would any of these fine Liberty students feel the same way?

I'm certain there are several, and I suspect a few would even suggest they are doing the Lord's work in running over a few LDS missionaries. Of course, let's not be one-sided and think that we can't find similar whackos within the BYU system or at SVU.

In order to understand the "sane" students' perspective, you have to try to think from their point of view. They went to a school that denounces the LDS Church as a false religious system. They belong to faith groups that the LDS Church in turn says comprise the church of the devil. There's a degree of "oil and water" here from the outset. Is it so unreasonable that they expect someone from their worldview to serve as their commencement speaker? The school was purportedly founded on values of proclaiming God's truth and making "Champions for Christ." It doesn't make sense to invite a speaker who can't send them out with a word of encouragement to be that Champion for Christ. From the students' perspective, Romeny doesn't know Christ so he can't very well speak to that point. Regardless of whether you agree with the theology, that's their main complaint.

The attached issue is whether anyone should care if the speaker is Mormon or Jewish or Agnostic, and that proves a subjective concept. I personally would rather see the school invite people that share our worldview. They see it as a PR stunt (and man is it proving successful). It also stands in their decision to pursue as an institution partisan (Republican) politics. The administration does not hide this fact. I would suggest they have elevated politics over religious convictions, but that's my take.

[Ryan.Samples]

blackstrap, on 27 April 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

For all the openmindedness that is supposed to exemplify the university environment,there sure are a lot of attempts to stiffle speech ,particularly  some on the right of the political spectrum. If students are that upset,then don't go to the speech.The tape of an empty house would serve their cause better.Politicians can take almost anything except being ignored.

It is indeed all about politics. It's rather disgusting in my mind.

There was some chatter about whether the students would get up and walk out as Romney takes the podium. Perhaps a few will do so, but I'd be surprised to see a mass exodus. Apparently some folks are going so far as to defer walking until 2013.

[blackstrap]

Is there a requirement at Liberty ,that in order to fully graduate,one MUST attend commencement and 'walk' ? In the past there was such a requirement at BYU,with some exceptions allowed. I was able to legitimately use one of the exceptions and ,suprisingly,don't have any regrets for missing the pomp and ceremony.

[Ryan.Samples]

I have been told you are not required to attend. Someone just this week told me she wasn't going to bother to walk, but now I can't remember who it was. She said it had to do with not wanting to sit in the blazing sun or purchase another cap and gown that will hang in the closet for no purpose. No mention from her of Romney and all that.

[bluebell]

Ryan.Samples, on 27 April 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

In order to understand the "sane" students' perspective, you have to try to think from their point of view. They went to a school that denounces the LDS Church as a false religious system. They belong to faith groups that the LDS Church in turn says comprise the church of the devil.

Where does the LDS church say that?

[Ryan.Samples]

bluebell, on 27 April 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

Where does the LDS church say that?

The First Vision makes it pretty plain (JS - History 1.19). See also D&C 1:30. McConkie's Mormon Doctrine offers an excellent summary of the Church's position, s.v. "Church of the Devil."

Your response actually stands in line with the reaction I get from all my Mormon friends. It's like they've never heard this notion that if theirs is the only true church on earth, the others are by definition false. I don't know if it's the new younger generation of Mormons or something, but my peers seem very unfamiliar with this church doctrine and its implications.

*edited for typo

Edited by Ryan.Samples, 27 April 2012 - 10:30 PM.

[Sleeper Cell]

Ryan.Samples, on 27 April 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

  
In order to understand the "sane" students' perspective, you have to try to think from their point of view. They went to a school that denounces the LDS Church as a false religious system. They belong to faith groups that the LDS Church in turn says comprise the church of the devil. There's a degree of "oil and water" here from the outset. Is it so unreasonable that they expect someone from their worldview to serve as their commencement speaker? The school was purportedly founded on values of proclaiming God's truth and making "Champions for Christ." It doesn't make sense to invite a speaker who can't send them out with a word of encouragement to be that Champion for Christ. From the students' perspective, Romeny doesn't know Christ so he can't very well speak to that point. Regardless of whether you agree with the theology, that's their main complaint.

It seems to me that part of becoming a “Champion for Christ” is learning how to treat non-Christians in a Christian manner.  

Even if you see being a “Champion for Christ” strictly in terms of “proclaiming God’s truth,”  I fail to see how protesting a commencement speaker for being a non-believer would be an effective Christian witness to non-believers.

[Ryan.Samples]

Sleeper Cell, on 27 April 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

It seems to me that part of becoming a “Champion for Christ” is learning how to treat non-Christians in a Christian manner.  

Even if you see being a “Champion for Christ” strictly in terms of “proclaiming God’s truth,”  I fail to see how protesting a commencement speaker for being a non-believer would be an effective Christian witness to non-believers.

If the students perceive their university to be selling out its religious values for political purposes, then I would expect them to react according to their conscience as the Spirit so guides. If the LDS church started inviting all sorts of Republicans to speak during Conference I'd expect more than a few Mormons to have a problem with that. Granted commencement is not the same as Conference, but I can understand how many folks expect a religious speaker there. One needs only to look at BYU's recent commencement speaker history to see the kind of practice LU grads apparently desire: someone from their "camp."

Commencement isn't a religious event per se, but some folks think that at an Evangelical school it should be. I'd just like to see the school actually live up to its claims; if you say you're willing to bring in folks from all walks of life, give us a communist atheist next year.

And, again, folks are miffed at the PR and politics that drive such decisions. I don't blame them.