Adam And The Priesthood

[bu11fr0g]

When and how did Adam get the priesthood?

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

I wrote a post not long ago trying to examine the scriptural foundations of the cosmological Priesthood, which is without father or mother and without beginning of days. My view is that Adam = Many = 'adm/mankind, with Sacred Drama in the Garden = Temple/Premortal Existence. In the Celestial Order/Garden, men and women are equal and hold Priesthood (Greek hiereus, Hebrew kohen = minister/Priest, presbyter = "elder" = pres/before + root of bous/cow = "old enough to be trusted to shepherd"). Priesthood is temporarily lost in the Fall to our mortal tabernacles; Restored through the Gospel in order to advance to next stage during eternal progression in which we minister to each other according to the principles of righteousness and all worthy people are worshipped in the full At-one-ment. Edited April 22, 2012 by JeremyOrbe-Smith

[thesometimesaint]

From his father.

Edited April 22, 2012 by thesometimesaint

[cinepro]

When and how did Adam get the priesthood?

It would have to have been from God the Father, since no one else had a body with which they could "lay hands."

[theplains]

I wrote a post not long ago trying to examine the scriptural foundations of the cosmological Priesthood ... and all worthy people are worshipped in the full At-one-ment.

In your related post, you said "For this reason, I also give worth (worship = worth-ship) to all who are currently part of the Church

of the Lamb in their hearts, or who would be if they were able ... The only people -- the only potential Gods -- unworthy of my

personal worship are those with a spirit of bloodshed, who desire ..."

Do you believe there are any non-Gods (grammar?) in the Church of the Lamb?

Thanks,

Jim

[zerinus]

When and how did Adam get the priesthood?

According to the Doctrine and Covenants, there is at least one other prophet who received his priesthood directly from God, and that was Esaias:

D&C 84:

11 And Gad [received the priesthood] under the hand of Esaias;

12 And Esaias received it under the hand of God.

In the same section it also says that Adam had the priesthood, which he must have obtained in the same way:

16 And from Enoch to Abel, who was slain by the conspiracy of his brother, who received the priesthood by the commandments of God, by the hand of his father Adam, who was the first man—

This verse also informs us that Adam was a real person, not some kind of metaphor, and he was the first man.

Edited April 22, 2012 by zerinus

[Ryan.Samples]

According to the Doctrine and Covenants, there is at least one other prophet who received his priesthood directly from God, and that was Esaias:

D&C 84:

11 And Gad [received the priesthood] under the hand of Esaias;

12 And Esaias received it under the hand of God.

In the same section it also says that Adam had the priesthood, which he must have obtained in the same way:

16 And from Enoch to Abel, who was slain by the conspiracy of his brother, who received the priesthood by the commandments of God, by the hand of his father Adam, who was the first man—

This verse also informs us that Adam was a real person, not some kind of metaphor, and he was the first man.

Do you know of any scripture reference that explicity discusses the mode by which Adam received the priesthood?

[cdowis]

No.

[Log]

This is as close as you're going to get:

64 And it came to pass, when the Lord had spoken with Adam, our father, that Adam cried unto the Lord, and he was caught away by the Spirit of the Lord, and was carried down into the water, and was laid under the water, and was brought forth out of the water.

65 And thus he was baptized, and the Spirit of God descended upon him, and thus he was born of the Spirit, and became quickened in the inner man.

66 And he heard a voice out of heaven, saying: Thou art baptized with fire, and with the Holy Ghost. This is the record of the Father, and the Son, from henceforth and forever;

67 And thou art after the order of him who was without beginning of days or end of years, from all eternity to all eternity.

68 Behold, thou art one in me, a son of God; and thus may all become my sons. Amen.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Log

[Ryan.Samples]

You'll have to certify its accuracy for this non-Mormon, but here is an interesting statement:

"The Priesthood was first given to Adam; he obtained the First Presidency, and held the keys of it from generation to generation. He obtained it in the Creation, before the world was formed...."

From Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith Compiled by Joseph Fielding Smith and the church historian's staff, as per http://www.boap.org/LDS/Joseph-Smith/Teachings/T4.html.

Implications? Do these words stand with equal authority to the standard works, if they are JS' teaching?

[zerinus]

This is as close as you're going to get:

Thank you Log. Verse 67 in particular seems to suggest some kind of priesthood ordination.

[zerinus]

Implications? Do these words stand with equal authority to the standard works, if they are JS' teaching?

No. One problem with the Teachings is that a lot of the time they are not verbatim quotes. We don't have everything that he said. Joseph also gave his sermons impromptu, without prior preparation; whereas he dictated his revelations in careful measured tones, and asked them to be read back to him for accuracy. And of course, they are not canonised. What is not canonised is not equal to what is.

[wenglund]

No. One problem with the Teachings is that a lot of the time they are not verbatim quotes. We don't have everything that he said. Joseph also gave his sermons impromptu, without prior preparation; whereas he dictated his revelations in careful measured tones, and asked them to be read back to him for accuracy. And of course, they are not canonised. What is not canonised is not equal to what isn't.

Additionally, as mentioned in the other thread, Joseph's understanding of certain things evolved over time and in some cases it took a while for his own understanding to catch up with what had earlier been revealed to him. His evolving understand is not equal to his canonized revelations.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Curtis Weber]

Adam received the fulness of the priesthood right after he was baptized in water in Moses 6:64-68:

64 And it came to pass, when the Lord had spoken with Adam, our father, that Adam cried unto the Lord, and he was caught away by the Spirit of the Lord, and was carried down into the water, and was laid under the water, and was brought forth out of the water.

65 And thus he was baptized, and the Spirit of God descended upon him, and thus he was born of the Spirit, and became quickened in the inner man.

66 And he heard a voice out of heaven, saying: Thou art baptized with fire, and with the Holy Ghost. This is the record of the Father, and the Son, from henceforth and forever;

67 And thou art after the order of him who was without beginning of days or end of years, from all eternity to all eternity.

68 Behold, thou art one in me, a son of God; and thus may all become my sons. Amen.

[Curtis Weber]

Oops, I was late to the punch. Zernius, it does not merely imply some kind of priesthood ordination, it is the priesthood ordination, the only one that really matters, as in JST Genesis 14:26-29:

26 Now Melchizedek was a man of faith, who wrought righteousness; and when a child he feared God, and stopped the mouths of lions, and quenched the violence of fire.

27 And thus, having been approved of God, he was ordained an high priest after the order of the covenant which God made with Enoch,

28 It being after the order of the Son of God; which order came, not by man, nor the will of man; neither by father nor mother; neither by beginning of days nor end of years; but of God;

29 And it was delivered unto men by the calling of his own voice, according to his own will, unto us many as believed on his name.

[mfbukowski]

Thank you Log. Verse 67 in particular seems to suggest some kind of priesthood ordination.

I think it IS an ordination, God using the correct terms instead of the somewhat more colloquial "Melchizadek Priesthood" to stand in for the words he actually used.

Works for me.

I don't see any of this as a serious "problem" for us- since Joseph got the Priesthood through supernatural means, it is not a jump or a "gotcha" to think that anyone else could not have possibly gotten it the same way.

I mean if one would pursue this as a "gotcha" I can come up with one better- where did the Priesthood come from in the BOM? There were no Levites among Lehi's group.

Obviously we know the answer- the Nephites had the Melchizadek Priesthood and were ordained supernaturally as well. No gotchas here! A miracle or two, but no gotchas!

From my point of view- once you accept the supernatural which I do- (as a possibility- dunno how much God uses it- that's his business!) a perfectly good answer to any question is "because God did it", or alternatively, "God wanted it that way".

Catholics come up with "it's a mystery" all the time and are not ashamed to use that as an explanation- yet we think we need chapter and verse for everything.

We don't.

[Ryan.Samples]

Obviously we know the answer- the Nephites had the Melchizadek Priesthood and were ordained supernaturally as well. No gotchas here! A miracle or two, but no gotchas!

That introduces a whole new question along the same lines. Why the sudden, inexplicable removal of priesthood limitations in the New World but not the old? Why were "new world saints" suddenly operating under new rules?

[mfbukowski]

That introduces a whole new question along the same lines. Why the sudden, inexplicable removal of priesthood limitations in the New World but not the old? Why were "new world saints" suddenly operating under new rules?

No change- its just that no Levites were available. Every time an Elder blesses the sacrament, he is a member of the Melchizadek Priesthood officiating in the ordinances of the "lesser priesthood"- the Aaronic. This is the situation in the BOM. Priesthood offices include all the offices "under" the one last bestowed, so being a "Priest" includes being a deacon and a teacher.

I know you are new, and also not a member, so this is probably not familiar to you, but this sort of thing happens all the time.

The bishop of the ward is actually the president of the Aaronic priesthood, but he is a High Priest also and a holder of the Melch. Priesthood.

I would suggest reading Gospel Principles for some fundamentals on what we believe- it will save a lot of questions for you I think.

Edit: Here is a link that might help you find that book, and it goes directly to a relevant chapter

http://www.lds.org/m...zation?lang=eng

Bishop

A bishop is ordained and set apart to preside over the Aaronic Priesthood in a ward. He is the president of the priests quorum (see D&C 107:87–88). When he is acting in his Aaronic Priesthood office, a bishop deals primarily with temporal matters, such as administering finances and records and directing care for the poor and needy (see D&C 107:68).

A bishop is also ordained a high priest so he can preside over all members in the ward (see D&C 107:71–73; 68:15). A bishop is a judge in Israel (see D&C 107:74) and interviews members for temple recommends, priesthood ordinations, and other needs. It is his right to have the gift of discernment.

Edited April 28, 2012 by mfbukowski

[Ryan.Samples]

No Levites were available. Every time an Elder blesses the sacrament, he is a member of the Melchizadek Priesthood officiating in the ordinances of the "lesser priesthood"- the Aaronic.

I know you are new, and also not a member, so this is probably not familiar to you, but this sort of thing happens all the time.

The bishop of the ward is actually the president of the Aaronic priesthood, but he is a High Priest also and a holder of the Melch. Priesthood.

So Lehi had the Melch when he came across the ocean?

[Ryan.Samples]

No change- its just that no Levites were available. Every time an Elder blesses the sacrament, he is a member of the Melchizadek Priesthood officiating in the ordinances of the "lesser priesthood"- the Aaronic. This is the situation in the BOM. Priesthood offices include all the offices "under" the one last bestowed, so being a "Priest" includes being a deacon and a teacher.

I know you are new, and also not a member, so this is probably not familiar to you, but this sort of thing happens all the time.

The bishop of the ward is actually the president of the Aaronic priesthood, but he is a High Priest also and a holder of the Melch. Priesthood.

I would suggest reading Gospel Principles for some fundamentals on what we believe- it will save a lot of questions for you I think.

Edit: Here is a link that might help you find that book, and it goes directly to a relevant chapter

http://www.lds.org/m...zation?lang=eng

I own it, but thanks for the link.

Curious question then. If to hold the Melch you must first hold the Aaronic, and if under the Mosaic Covenant only Levites can hold the Aaronic priesthood, how could anyone other than a Levite hold the Melch?

[mfbukowski]

I own it, but thanks for the link.

Curious question then. If to hold the Melch you must first hold the Aaronic, and if under the Mosaic Covenant only Levites can hold the Aaronic priesthood, how could anyone other than a Levite hold the Melch?

Incorrect. You do not need to hold the Aaronic to hold the Melchizadek. Melchizadek himself is an example- he is described as a priest before Levi even lived.

Genesis 14

¹⁸And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

¹⁹And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:

²⁰And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

In fact- I hadn't noticed this, but this is arguably the example I cited above- an "Elder" blessing the bread and water

[mfbukowski]

So Lehi had the Melch when he came across the ocean?

By what authority did Lehi, a non-Levite priest, offer sacrifices?

Paul Y. Hoskisson, associate professor of ancient scripture, Brigham Young University. From the beginning of the world, God has sought to bless his children by bestowing on his worthy sons the Melchizedek Priesthood, “the Holy Priesthood, after the Order of the Son of God” (D&C 107:3; see also Alma 13:7). Scripture affirms that Adam, Abel, Enoch, Noah, Melchizedek, Abraham, Moses, and others held this priesthood (see D&C 84:14–16, 25; D&C 107:53; Moses 6:67).

The Melchizedek Priesthood was to have continued among the descendants of Israel in order to bless the inhabitants of the earth. Through Moses, for example, God expressed to the children of Israel the desire to make of them a royal generation of priesthood holders (See Ex. 19:5–6). But because the children of Israel were disobedient in the days of Moses, the keys of the Melchizedek Priesthood were withdrawn from them (see Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3 vols., comp. Bruce R. McConkie, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1954–56, 3:83–85; see also Bruce R. McConkie, The Mortal Messiah, 4 vols., Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1979–81, 1:60).

Thus, from the days of Moses until the coming of Christ in the meridian of time, the inhabitants of Israel were not generally given the Melchizedek Priesthood, and only the Levites held the Aaronic Priesthood and administered the obligations and duties of the law of Moses.

The Lord, however, did not leave his people, the Israelites, without the guidance of Melchizedek Priesthood leadership. All the prophets held the higher priesthood, having been ordained by the hand of God (see Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 180–81). It was by right of this higher priesthood that the Old Testament prophets performed their labors in the name of the God of Israel and could officiate in the ordinances of the Aaronic Priesthood, just as today bishops in the Church officiate in an Aaronic Priesthood office by right of the Melchizedek Priesthood.

About 600 B.C., Lehi was called as one of these prophets to preach repentance to the inhabitants of Israel, a people who generally did not hold the priesthood. When he left Jerusalem at God’s command, Lehi was aware that he and his family were forming a separate branch of the house of Israel (see 1 Ne. 15:12). Though the Book of Mormon does not explicitly state so, Lehi, like all other prophets in Old Testament times, held the Melchizedek Priesthood.

For this reason, the Nephites, without having Levites among them, could rightfully officiate in the ordinances of the law of Moses. Thus, in Book of Mormon lands, the Nephites administered the ordinances and blessings of the law of Moses before the coming of Christ and the law of the gospel after the coming of Christ by the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood.

Also, Nephi’s consecration of Jacob and Joseph to be priests and teachers was, as Joseph Fielding Smith explained, “a general assignment to teach, direct, and admonish the people,” not an ordination to specific offices in the Aaronic Priesthood (see Answers to Gospel Questions, 5 vols., Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1957, 1:124–25).

It seems clear, then, that before Jesus Christ visited the Nephites and organized the Church in its fulness, Lehi and later Nephite prophets and Church leaders presided in various religious capacities by virtue of the Melchizedek Priesthood. In the Book of Mormon, this divine authority is referred to as “the holy order of God” (Alma 5:44; Alma 13:1; Alma 43:1–2; see also 2 Ne. 6:2).

Although the Book of Mormon does not at first glance seem to place emphasis on Melchizedek Priesthood lines as we do today, yet it is from beginning to end the record kept by the holders and administrators of that priesthood among the Nephites. Moreover, the Book of Mormon is its own best illustration of the roles and responsibilities of Melchizedek Priesthood holders among the inhabitants of this earth. In it we find examples of righteous men and women who allowed the Melchizedek Priesthood to bless their lives. In the words of Alma, one of the great prophets and Melchizedek Priesthood leaders in the Book of Mormon, those who were ordained to the higher priesthood were to “teach [Christ’s] commandments unto the children of men, that they also might enter into his rest” (Alma 13:6). Those who study the Book of Mormon and apply its teachings in their lives have a greater appreciation for the blessings and ordinances that can be received through the Melchizedek Priesthood.

http://www.lds.org/ensign/1994/03/i-have-a-question?lang=eng

[Ryan.Samples]

That doesn't make any sense. You earlier stated "Every time an Elder blesses the sacrament, he is a member of the Melchizadek Priesthood officiating in the ordinances of the "lesser priesthood"- the Aaronic."

If the Melch doesn't first require Aaronic priesthood (first I've ever heard this claim) then how can an elder officiate in a priesthood he never held? Don't you have to have the priesthood to officiate therein? That seems to me a rhetorical question.

[mfbukowski]

That doesn't make any sense. You earlier stated "Every time an Elder blesses the sacrament, he is a member of the Melchizadek Priesthood officiating in the ordinances of the "lesser priesthood"- the Aaronic."

If the Melch doesn't first require Aaronic priesthood (first I've ever heard this claim) then how can an elder officiate in a priesthood he never held? Don't you have to have the priesthood to officiate therein? That seems to me a rhetorical question.

Easy does it- you are the one who doesn't understand the doctrine.

The Melchizadek priesthood INCLUDES all the offices of the lesser priesthood. IF you had read the article I sent you you would have known that.

Today, indeed, the Aaronic priesthood is usually given to kids as they grow up, and then they receive the Melchizadek Priesthood at the age of 18 or older.

REMEMBER MELCHIZADEK HIMSELF HAD THAT PRIESTHOOD YEARS BEFORE THE BIRTH OF LEVI.

I'm not here to waste time. If you want to learn I will help teach you- but no snarky comments, ok? It DOES make perfect sense

[mfbukowski]

The FBI has authority which includes the authority of the deputy sheriff of Podunk USA and they can take over any investigation they want to- because they have more authority.

An FBI agent does not need to be first appointed a deputy sheriff of Podunk to do so.

Get it now??