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Adam And The Priesthood


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#1 bu11fr0g

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:00 AM

When and how did Adam get the priesthood?
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#2 JeremyOrbe-Smith

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:32 AM

I wrote a post not long ago trying to examine the scriptural foundations of the cosmological Priesthood, which is without father or mother and without beginning of days. My view is that Adam = Many = 'adm/mankind, with Sacred Drama in the Garden = Temple/Premortal Existence. In the Celestial Order/Garden, men and women are equal and hold Priesthood (Greek hiereus, Hebrew kohen = minister/Priest, presbyter = "elder" = pres/before + root of bous/cow = "old enough to be trusted to shepherd"). Priesthood is temporarily lost in the Fall to our mortal tabernacles; Restored through the Gospel in order to advance to next stage during eternal progression in which we minister to each other according to the principles of righteousness and all worthy people are worshipped in the full At-one-ment.

Edited by JeremyOrbe-Smith, 22 April 2012 - 02:04 PM.

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#3 thesometimesaint

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:56 AM

From his father.

Edited by thesometimesaint, 22 April 2012 - 08:57 AM.

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#4 cinepro

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 09:22 AM

When and how did Adam get the priesthood?



It would have to have been from God the Father, since no one else had a body with which they could "lay hands."
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#5 theplains

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 10:01 AM

I wrote a post not long ago trying to examine the scriptural foundations of the cosmological Priesthood ... and all worthy people are worshipped in the full At-one-ment.

In your related post, you said "For this reason, I also give worth (worship = worth-ship) to all who are currently part of the Church
of the Lamb in their hearts, or who would be if they were able ... The only people -- the only potential Gods -- unworthy of my
personal worship are those with a spirit of bloodshed, who desire ..."

Do you believe there are any non-Gods (grammar?) in the Church of the Lamb?

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#6 zerinus

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 11:48 AM

When and how did Adam get the priesthood?

According to the Doctrine and Covenants, there is at least one other prophet who received his priesthood directly from God, and that was Esaias:

D&C 84:

11 And Gad [received the priesthood] under the hand of Esaias;
12 And Esaias received it under the hand of God.

In the same section it also says that Adam had the priesthood, which he must have obtained in the same way:

16 And from Enoch to Abel, who was slain by the conspiracy of his brother, who received the priesthood by the commandments of God, by the hand of his father Adam, who was the first man

This verse also informs us that Adam was a real person, not some kind of metaphor, and he was the first man.

Edited by zerinus, 22 April 2012 - 11:49 AM.

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#7 Ryan.Samples

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 10:16 PM

According to the Doctrine and Covenants, there is at least one other prophet who received his priesthood directly from God, and that was Esaias:

D&C 84:

11 And Gad [received the priesthood] under the hand of Esaias;
12 And Esaias received it under the hand of God.

In the same section it also says that Adam had the priesthood, which he must have obtained in the same way:

16 And from Enoch to Abel, who was slain by the conspiracy of his brother, who received the priesthood by the commandments of God, by the hand of his father Adam, who was the first man

This verse also informs us that Adam was a real person, not some kind of metaphor, and he was the first man.


Do you know of any scripture reference that explicity discusses the mode by which Adam received the priesthood?
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#8 cdowis

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 10:24 PM

No.
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#9 Log

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 10:48 PM

This is as close as you're going to get:

64 And it came to pass, when the Lord had spoken with Adam, our father, that Adam cried unto the Lord, and he was caught away by the Spirit of the Lord, and was carried down into the water, and was laid under the water, and was brought forth out of the water.

65 And thus he was baptized, and the Spirit of God descended upon him, and thus he was born of the Spirit, and became quickened in the inner man.

66 And he heard a voice out of heaven, saying: Thou art baptized with fire, and with the Holy Ghost. This is the record of the Father, and the Son, from henceforth and forever;

67 And thou art after the order of him who was without beginning of days or end of years, from all eternity to all eternity.

68 Behold, thou art one in me, a son of God; and thus may all become my sons. Amen.


Edited by Log, 26 April 2012 - 10:49 PM.

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#10 Ryan.Samples

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 11:05 PM

You'll have to certify its accuracy for this non-Mormon, but here is an interesting statement:

"The Priesthood was first given to Adam; he obtained the First Presidency, and held the keys of it from generation to generation. He obtained it in the Creation, before the world was formed...."

From Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith Compiled by Joseph Fielding Smith and the church historian's staff, as per http://www.boap.org/...chings/T4.html.

Implications? Do these words stand with equal authority to the standard works, if they are JS' teaching?
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#11 zerinus

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 11:41 PM

This is as close as you're going to get:

Thank you Log. Verse 67 in particular seems to suggest some kind of priesthood ordination.
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#12 zerinus

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 11:53 PM

Implications? Do these words stand with equal authority to the standard works, if they are JS' teaching?

No. One problem with the Teachings is that a lot of the time they are not verbatim quotes. We don't have everything that he said. Joseph also gave his sermons impromptu, without prior preparation; whereas he dictated his revelations in careful measured tones, and asked them to be read back to him for accuracy. And of course, they are not canonised. What is not canonised is not equal to what is.
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#13 wenglund

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 11:03 AM

No. One problem with the Teachings is that a lot of the time they are not verbatim quotes. We don't have everything that he said. Joseph also gave his sermons impromptu, without prior preparation; whereas he dictated his revelations in careful measured tones, and asked them to be read back to him for accuracy. And of course, they are not canonised. What is not canonised is not equal to what isn't.


Additionally, as mentioned in the other thread, Joseph's understanding of certain things evolved over time and in some cases it took a while for his own understanding to catch up with what had earlier been revealed to him. His evolving understand is not equal to his canonized revelations.

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#14 Curtis Weber

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 01:59 PM

Adam received the fulness of the priesthood right after he was baptized in water in Moses 6:64-68:


64 And it came to pass, when the Lord had spoken with Adam, our father, that Adam cried unto the Lord, and he was caught away by the Spirit of the Lord, and was carried down into the water, and was laid under the water, and was brought forth out of the water.

65 And thus he was baptized, and the Spirit of God descended upon him, and thus he was born of the Spirit, and became quickened in the inner man.


66 And he heard a voice out of heaven, saying: Thou art baptized with fire, and with the Holy Ghost. This is the record of the Father, and the Son, from henceforth and forever;


67 And thou art after the order of him who was without beginning of days or end of years, from all eternity to all eternity.


68 Behold, thou art one in me, a son of God; and thus may all become my sons. Amen.
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#15 Curtis Weber

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 02:08 PM

Oops, I was late to the punch. Zernius, it does not merely imply some kind of priesthood ordination, it is the priesthood ordination, the only one that really matters, as in JST Genesis 14:26-29:


26 Now Melchizedek was a man of faith, who wrought righteousness; and when a child he feared God, and stopped the mouths of lions, and quenched the violence of fire.

27 And thus, having been approved of God, he was ordained an high priest after the order of the covenant which God made with Enoch,

28 It being after the order of the Son of God; which order came, not by man, nor the will of man; neither by father nor mother; neither by beginning of days nor end of years; but of God;

29 And it was delivered unto men by the calling of his own voice, according to his own will, unto us many as believed on his name.
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#16 mfbukowski

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 05:52 PM

Thank you Log. Verse 67 in particular seems to suggest some kind of priesthood ordination.

I think it IS an ordination, God using the correct terms instead of the somewhat more colloquial "Melchizadek Priesthood" to stand in for the words he actually used.

Works for me.

I don't see any of this as a serious "problem" for us- since Joseph got the Priesthood through supernatural means, it is not a jump or a "gotcha" to think that anyone else could not have possibly gotten it the same way.

I mean if one would pursue this as a "gotcha" I can come up with one better- where did the Priesthood come from in the BOM? There were no Levites among Lehi's group.

Obviously we know the answer- the Nephites had the Melchizadek Priesthood and were ordained supernaturally as well. No gotchas here! A miracle or two, but no gotchas!

From my point of view- once you accept the supernatural which I do- (as a possibility- dunno how much God uses it- that's his business!) a perfectly good answer to any question is "because God did it", or alternatively, "God wanted it that way".

Catholics come up with "it's a mystery" all the time and are not ashamed to use that as an explanation- yet we think we need chapter and verse for everything.

We don't.
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#17 Ryan.Samples

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 06:29 PM

Obviously we know the answer- the Nephites had the Melchizadek Priesthood and were ordained supernaturally as well. No gotchas here! A miracle or two, but no gotchas!


That introduces a whole new question along the same lines. Why the sudden, inexplicable removal of priesthood limitations in the New World but not the old? Why were "new world saints" suddenly operating under new rules?
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#18 mfbukowski

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 07:10 PM


That introduces a whole new question along the same lines. Why the sudden, inexplicable removal of priesthood limitations in the New World but not the old? Why were "new world saints" suddenly operating under new rules?

No change- its just that no Levites were available. Every time an Elder blesses the sacrament, he is a member of the Melchizadek Priesthood officiating in the ordinances of the "lesser priesthood"- the Aaronic. This is the situation in the BOM. Priesthood offices include all the offices "under" the one last bestowed, so being a "Priest" includes being a deacon and a teacher.

I know you are new, and also not a member, so this is probably not familiar to you, but this sort of thing happens all the time.

The bishop of the ward is actually the president of the Aaronic priesthood, but he is a High Priest also and a holder of the Melch. Priesthood.

I would suggest reading Gospel Principles for some fundamentals on what we believe- it will save a lot of questions for you I think.

Edit: Here is a link that might help you find that book, and it goes directly to a relevant chapter
http://www.lds.org/m...zation?lang=eng



Bishop

A bishop is ordained and set apart to preside over the Aaronic Priesthood in a ward. He is the president of the priests quorum (see D&C 107:87–88). When he is acting in his Aaronic Priesthood office, a bishop deals primarily with temporal matters, such as administering finances and records and directing care for the poor and needy (see D&C 107:68).
A bishop is also ordained a high priest so he can preside over all members in the ward (see D&C 107:71–73; 68:15). A bishop is a judge in Israel (see D&C 107:74) and interviews members for temple recommends, priesthood ordinations, and other needs. It is his right to have the gift of discernment.


Edited by mfbukowski, 27 April 2012 - 07:20 PM.

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#19 Ryan.Samples

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 07:16 PM

No Levites were available. Every time an Elder blesses the sacrament, he is a member of the Melchizadek Priesthood officiating in the ordinances of the "lesser priesthood"- the Aaronic.

I know you are new, and also not a member, so this is probably not familiar to you, but this sort of thing happens all the time.

The bishop of the ward is actually the president of the Aaronic priesthood, but he is a High Priest also and a holder of the Melch. Priesthood.


So Lehi had the Melch when he came across the ocean?
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#20 Ryan.Samples

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 07:22 PM

No change- its just that no Levites were available. Every time an Elder blesses the sacrament, he is a member of the Melchizadek Priesthood officiating in the ordinances of the "lesser priesthood"- the Aaronic. This is the situation in the BOM. Priesthood offices include all the offices "under" the one last bestowed, so being a "Priest" includes being a deacon and a teacher.

I know you are new, and also not a member, so this is probably not familiar to you, but this sort of thing happens all the time.

The bishop of the ward is actually the president of the Aaronic priesthood, but he is a High Priest also and a holder of the Melch. Priesthood.

I would suggest reading Gospel Principles for some fundamentals on what we believe- it will save a lot of questions for you I think.

Edit: Here is a link that might help you find that book, and it goes directly to a relevant chapter
http://www.lds.org/m...zation?lang=eng


I own it, but thanks for the link.

Curious question then. If to hold the Melch you must first hold the Aaronic, and if under the Mosaic Covenant only Levites can hold the Aaronic priesthood, how could anyone other than a Levite hold the Melch?
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