Serious Question: Why Do Believers Fight To Stay Alive When Faced With Death?

[altersteve]

[The Nehor]

It they were viscerally despirately fearful of that possibility, they would have done something about it a long time ago.

But they didn't. On the other hand, we don't fail to keep ourselves alive at all costs if we can.

PS: You would be just as insanely fearful of the blackness if you were staring down the barrel of a gun even if you had no more family on earth and nothing left to do.

So are you asking whether I logically fear death or instinctually fear death? I know I fear it in the latter way. If I am drowning I will flail for the surface. If I have a gun pulled on me animal instincts will rise up and encourage me to fight or flee.

Do I fear death logically? No. Do I fear dying? A little, the process of getting there will probably hurt a bit.

I am content to live or die. I'm under orders from God to not seek death so I don't. I'm not worried about missing out. I will have plenty of time to be alive and dead in any case. Plus I suspect that in heaven all joy and pleasure from experiences are shared and that that is part of the joy so I will have missed nothing.

[Tarski]

It they were viscerally despirately fearful of that possibility, they would have done something about it a long time ago.

But they didn't. On the other hand, we don't fail to keep ourselves alive at all costs if we can.

PS: You would be just as insanely fearful of the blackness if you were staring down the barrel of a gun even if you had no more family on earth and nothing left to do.

I will always have something to live for.

Which makes me think that you don't really believe that what comes after death counts as living.

I don't think it counts either.

Don't tell others what they believe or don't believe.

Edit: OK then, change "think that" to "wonder if".

Edited May 1, 2012 by Tarski

[seriously honestly]

...but once it is not worth living

Entirely a matter of perspective

[thesometimesaint]

seriously honestly:

All that is certain is that we are alive today and that someday we will die. The eventuality of my death doesn't bother me near as much as how I live my life now.

[seriously honestly]

seriously honestly:

All that is certain is that we are alive today and that someday we will die. The eventuality of my death doesn't bother me near as much as how I live my life now.

...so...does that mean you are agreeing with my former post? Not sure what you are getting at.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Entirely a matter of perspective

I live in constant pain, perspective is important, but I have earned a release from this hell I am living in…I just can’t figure out what God is up too? When I see him I will be asking….What took so long! Pain is just too much at one point and people are ready to go. I know I am.

[thesometimesaint]

Pa Pa:

If I take enough meds I don't feel the pain, but they zombify me. So it is a balancing act, a little too much and my breathing stops, and I have to remember to breathe. Too little and the pain returns with a venegence. That being said I've had a good life with a family that loves and cares for me. So if God calls me back I'm ready to go. But I'm in no big hurry either.

Edited May 1, 2012 by thesometimesaint

[Carborendum]

Ok I understand ... not dying prematurealy...but...why fight the enevitible? When death is literally knocking on your door

How do you know it is inevitable? Maybe to your friend, it was not inevitable until long after you believed it was.

Death is always literally knocking on my door. Do I just give up and stop eating? No. I like food.

Not only is there a lot of pain often associated with the dying process (which I'd really like to avoid) but there are things about this life that we don't want to give up. I want to be able to interact with my children as they grow up. I'd like to hold my first grandchild in my arms. I'd like to have the fun of throwing a baseball around with my grandchildren. If I die, I won't have that.

Is there a better place? What does that have to do with it? We have some real treasures in this life for which there are no substitutes. Are there better things? Yes. But they are supplements not substitutes.

I will say this. I will fight until it occurs TO ME that it is inevitable and imminent. At that point, I'll say I'd rather not fight it any longer. I just need to make the best of the time I've got. Maybe your friend felt like fighting was the best way to spend that limited time. It is difficult for someone else to judge just what is going on in a dying person's mind.

[cinepro]

In answer to the question, in large part it's the survival instinct, something that is so strong in us we will fight to hold onto life. But even when we've accepted the inevitable our loved ones may still be holding us here.

My first thought was also the "survival instinct". Wherever it comes from, I think we all have a basic desire to stay alive. And for all of our "faith", there are still many unknowns about death, and most people have a fear of the unknown as well.

It's also possible that Craig's "illustration" doesn't apply to all people of faith. Certainly, there have been people who faced death with dignity, bravery and acceptance throughout history.

I've told my kids that I don't care how I die, I just hope it isn't something stupid (aka a Darwin Award).

And I've told them that if I die before their mother, it's likely she'll find someone else who can bring her companionship, and I want her to be happy. So his death must look like an accident.

[BlueDreams]

I've always said that if some tragic accident happened and I die with the white light and everything, I'd wait patiently on the other side for whoever comes to greet me and tell them to put me back immediately, cuz I'm not done...I don't care how peaceful it is up here. My major reason for wanting to be alive isn't a doubt about there being something beyond here. I firmly believe/know that there is. I want to be alive because I feel I have a purpose to fulfill down here and I know deep down I haven't entirely fulfilled it.

It short I'm not ready to say I'm finished.

My G-Grandma on the otherhand couldn't figure out why she was still kicking and breathing at the end. She was more than ready to pass when she did. She wanted to return to her husband, then dead for 8+ years. Her children were grown, her grandchildren, and even some of her great-grandchildren. When she did pass, I (nor most of my family) wasn't sad. I only cried once shortly during her funeral because I'd miss her. Largely most of us were relieved. Overall her funeral was a cheerful event/family reunion with delicious funeral potatoes.

There's plenty of reasons to stay alive and plenty of people who are also content to die. For both I think it entails about feeling whether or not it's their time or not. (Along with instinct).

With luv,

BD

[mbh26]

I've always said that if some tragic accident happened and I die with the white light and everything, I'd wait patiently on the other side for whoever comes to greet me and tell them to put me back immediately, cuz I'm not done...I don't care how peaceful it is up here. My major reason for wanting to be alive isn't a doubt about there being something beyond here. I firmly believe/know that there is. I want to be alive because I feel I have a purpose to fulfill down here and I know deep down I haven't entirely fulfilled it.

I really have to admire your will on that. It's a special thing to have found that much meaning in your life. I doubt many people find that ever.

Perhaps the next life would give me a different perspective. I still struggle to understand how people would ever want to come back. I know I wouldn't. Thankfully, it's not a choice I have to consider or make at least in a very dramatic or direct sense as it i for those in an NDE.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Pa Pa:

If I take enough meds I don't feel the pain, but they zombify me. So it is a balancing act, a little too much and my breathing stops, and I have to remember to breathe. Too little and the pain returns with a venegence. That being said I've had a good life with a family that loves and cares for me. So if God calls me back I'm ready to go. But I'm in no big hurry either.

I am just tired of the pain the meds...all of it. 8 more months and my son is home and my work is done!

[cinepro]

This comment in the Book of Mormon seems to apply:

[39] And it came to pass that there were many who died, firmly believing that their souls were redeemed by the Lord Jesus Christ; thus they went out of the world rejoicing.

Alma 46

So there have been some Christians who did go "out of the world rejoicing". Why we don't do that today, or whether or not we should, I don't know...

Edited May 2, 2012 by cinepro

[The Nehor]

So there have been some Christians who did go "out of the world rejoicing". Why we don't do that today, or whether or not we should, I don't know...

I've seen it.

[thesometimesaint]

Pa Pa:

I've been dealing with it for 19 years. Hugged one of my kids as he went and returned from a mission. Then as they had families of their own, and now have wached as my oldest granddaughter launches herself into adulthood. I've had to keep myself busy with life even with my declining health. I'd like to hold my GreatGrandkids in my arms. Though in all likelihood I probably won't. I have no intention of going gently into that good night. I intend to live each and every day to the best I can till my last breath.

[Kenngo1969]

No offense taken. Alma 32: "and now behold, after ye have tasted this light is your knowledge perfect? Behold I say unto you, Nay; neither must ye lay aside your faith, for ye have only exercised your faith to plant the seed that ye might try the experiment to know if the seed was good."

Hebrews 11: Now ^afaith is the ^bsubstance of things ^choped for, the ^devidenceof things not seen.

Both refute faith as knowledge. Faith, at best, is hope and belief.

Ralph Waldo Emerson: The faith that stands on authority is not faith

You did a good job cherry-picking a couple verses from those chapters. I didn't refer you to any specific verses. I referred you to the entire chapters. Read them in their entirety and get back to me. Alma 32, in particular, does a good job explaining how faith becomes knowledge.

[Tepui]

Don't know if this helps:

Sir Thomas More, from the movie "A Man for All Seasons"

Listen, Meg, God made the angels to show Him splendor, as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But Man He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of his mind. If He suffers us to come to such a case that there is no escaping, then we may stand to our tackle as best we can, and, yes, Meg, then we can clamor like champions, if we have the spittle for it. But it's God's part, not our own, to bring ourselves to such a pass. Our natural business lies in escaping. If I can take the oath, I will.

Thomas More, per the script, was fighting for his life. He had no desire to die by the hand of the King. (But he couldn't take the oath.) There's nothing wrong with fighting for your life, though the outcome is inevitable.

Mormon, Moroni, Joseph Smith, etc.

[Cold Steel]

As an agnostic, non-believer I completely understand why someone of my ilk would fight to enjoy and live this life for as long as possible and to its fullest extent…this being the only life I believe I will ever experience…I want to enjoy and live THIS life for as long as it is enjoyable.

People have self preservation hard wired into them. It's a part of life. Not until we pass do we wonder what all the fuss was about. Latter-day Saints are not immune from this hard wiring. If we didn't have a natural fear of death, we wouldn't struggle for life. President Kimball almost gave up his battles with cancer before he became president of the church, but President Lee told him to fight with every tool he had available. While having heart surgery by Russell M. Nelson, now of the Quorum of the Twelve, Elder Kimball almost died. Nelson gave him a blessing that revived him and was inspired during that blessing that Kimball would one day be President of the Church. That was odd to say the least, as President Lee was in (seemingly) better health, younger and more robust. Nevertheless, he suddenly died shortly thereafter and Elder Kimball became President.

I have a friend who has been in chronic pain for the last decade or so. He lives on narcotics and says he prays every day for death. He's LDS and appears to have no fear of death whatsoever.

Some people view death differently than others. Some have families--children and wives/husbands--and they have something to live for. Not all are equally motivated. And some folks just fear death.

I've read a number of life-after-life experiences and was impressed by two, The Message, by Lance Richardson, and I Stand All Amazed, by Elane Durham. Both are LDS. Elane was shown things when she "died" that later caused her to join the church. I recommend both if you'd like to give them to your friend. Both are listed on Amazon.

[Storm Rider]

I think wether we fight for our life or not depends upon the circumstances of our ending. There are examples of many of the first apostles who willing allowed themselves to be crucified, early Christians who willingly allowed themselves to be burned to death; yet others fought when they were accosted or committed suicide (I am thinking of Masada).

I think it is natural that when accosted in a life or death struggle to fight back. However, when taken, tried, condemned, and taken to cross, some may be able to emulate the example of our Master and die willingly. Others may fight to the bitter end of their struggle.

Context is everything.

[TAO]

I think there is a very... simple reason we fight to stay alive. There are things we wish we could do, fix, or experience. This isn't a bad thing, it's just human nature. Sometimes God doesn't want us to die. Sometimes he does. It's just our job to be prepared for when he comes for us, so we won't be upset, but be happy. =)

Edited May 3, 2012 by TAO

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Pa Pa:

I've been dealing with it for 19 years. Hugged one of my kids as he went and returned from a mission. Then as they had families of their own, and now have wached as my oldest granddaughter launches herself into adulthood. I've had to keep myself busy with life even with my declining health. I'd like to hold my GreatGrandkids in my arms. Though in all likelihood I probably won't. I have no intention of going gently into that good night. I intend to live each and every day to the best I can till my last breath.

So would I...but I am OK with doing it in the next life.

[Lightbearer]

While at first glance this OP is rather offensive and intimates that those who "claim to know" are just lying or whistling past the graveyard... I do have an answer, first we were placed on this earth for a reason (more than just obtaining a physical body), each of us were given certain tutorials to complete while in this mortal school. Some are required to endure this veil of tears longer than others, each of our experiences were custom made for us, unlike the atheistic belief that we are hear by some cosmic game of chance, we are here to learn to become exalted. God's work and glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man, and so nothing happens in this life that is without reason, This time is given for us to prepare to meet God, we can either eat drink and be merry and waste our probation or we can take the precious time we have been given to improve ourselves and to bless the lives of others. My father is 92 years old and after my mother passed on he actually wanted to leave this mortal life... in fact he had an experience when he almost passed on, he met the keeper of the gate, and was told that his misson was not yet done, that he would have to go back. He is still with us and although his eyes are bad, his health is great for a 92 year old, and he never misses his Church meetings and gives his family and friends the account of his testimony of the truthfulness of the Gospel. Some would say "he lived a long good life and ought to leave" but I say he is still doing a great work, he is a living inspiration of "enduring to the end" and I hope he lives many more years because he would be greatly missed. Some would say if a person cannot "contribute" to society they ought to die. This is one of the reasons why I could never allow someone with this philosophy to get in power in the government. Would we want those who are crippled or infirm or retarded all to be exterminated? That would be a horrid society, without compassion, without humanity... So the reason believers fight to live is because we love life, we love to help others, we do not want to give up when life gets hard. It is through the trials of life that we grow in faith, which is far more than a mere belief or hope. It can become a sure knowledge that surpasses all understanding, and with faith we have hope for a better world. As Mormon told his son Moroni:

"And now, my beloved son, notwithstanding their hardness, let us labor diligently; for if we should cease to labor, we should be brought under condemnation; for we have a labor to perform whilst in this tabernacle of clay, that we may conquer the enemy of all righteousness, and rest our souls in the kingdom of God." (Book of Mormon | Moroni 9:6)

[thesometimesaint]

Pa Pa:

We'll all have a full in-basket when we leave this life behind, but I intend to make a good dent in it.

Edited May 3, 2012 by thesometimesaint

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Pa Pa:

We'll all have a full in-basket when we leave this life behind, but I intend to make a good dent in it.

I will be 55 later this month...I have been all over the world, raised a good family...I just don't see why the pain needs to continue?