77 replies to this topic

[rodheadlee]

Craig Paxton: There are several reasons for my wife and I personally.

1)We are not sealed yet.

2)The next reason for me personally is it's my job to live longer than my wife so I can care for her. After 2 cancer surgeries I doubt she'll go for number 3. She is reasonalby healthy right now but she has expessed a desire to not go through that again.

3) We're not done doing the work we are supposed to be doing for the Lord

4) We have older parents that will need hospice care sooner or later and no other family member will do it We've done 2 already and we have experience at it.

5) Endure till the end

[Tarski]

MorningStar, on 10 April 2012 - 09:55 AM, said:

Or maybe they're afraid they haven't lived a good enough life?

It they were viscerally despirately fearful of that possibility, they would have done something about it a long time ago.
But they didn't. On the other hand, we don't fail to keep ourselves alive at  all costs if we can.

PS: You would be just as insanely fearful of the blackness if you were staring down the barrel of a gun even if you had no more family on earth and nothing left to do.

[Thinking]

College Football!!

[MorningStar]

Tarski, on 10 April 2012 - 07:23 PM, said:

It they were viscerally despirately fearful of that possibility, they would have done something about it a long time ago.
But they didn't. On the other hand, we don't fail to keep ourselves alive at  all costs if we can.

PS: You would be just as insanely fearful of the blackness if you were staring down the barrel of a gun even if you had no more family on earth and nothing left to do.

I will always have something to live for.

[Kenngo1969]

LDSToronto, on 10 April 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

Because faith is not knowledge, death is the ultimate call of all wagers. Anxiety hides in the shadows of faith; as faith is but a guess, equal to all others.

H.

No offense, but no, it's not.  Alma 32 and Hebrews 11.

[rodheadlee]

Thinking, on 10 April 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

College Football!!

Can I add that to my list?

[Buzzard]

Thinking, on 10 April 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

College Football!!

Well, BYU Football, anyway.  And BYU Basketball as well.

[rpn]

Oh, I think that this is a human thing.  Humans are famous for seeking treatments to hang on a little more, regardless of their faith or lack there off.  It is the major reason for the huge cost of health care --- ineffective end of life interventions.  

But there are plenty of faith oriented people who reject such treatment for the very reason you mentioned, that it is silly to fight and spend out resources to prolong life without quality of life, especially when you are joyfully going home to a God you believe will welcome you and family who are waiting there.

Trouble is, not a few of us still have things we are working out and some of us want the extra time to get better at the things we should have gotten better at earlier.

[Stargazer]

thesometimesaint, on 10 April 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

Stargazer:

I'm still at the point where my younger Grandkids laugh at my jokes. Maybe when they get a little older they'll just moan.

Yes.  One of my daughters asked her mother something, and her mother told he she should ask me instead.  The daughter demurred, saying she didn't want to know THAT much about the matter.

That's right.  Ask me what time it is and I will explain in great detail how to build a clock.

[LDSToronto]

Kenngo1969, on 11 April 2012 - 05:43 AM, said:

No offense, but no, it's not.  Alma 32 and Hebrews 11.

No offense taken. Alma 32: "and now behold, after ye have tasted this light is your knowledge perfect? Behold I say unto you, Nay; neither must ye lay aside your faith, for ye have only exercised your faith to plant the seed that ye might try the experiment to know if the seed was good."

Hebrews 11: Now ^afaith is the ^bsubstance of things ^choped for, the ^devidenceof things not seen.

Both refute faith as knowledge. Faith, at best, is hope and belief.

Ralph Waldo Emerson: The faith that stands on authority is not faith

[altersteve]

[The Nehor]

Tarski, on 10 April 2012 - 07:23 PM, said:

It they were viscerally despirately fearful of that possibility, they would have done something about it a long time ago.
But they didn't. On the other hand, we don't fail to keep ourselves alive at  all costs if we can.

PS: You would be just as insanely fearful of the blackness if you were staring down the barrel of a gun even if you had no more family on earth and nothing left to do.

So are you asking whether I logically fear death or instinctually fear death? I know I fear it in the latter way. If I am drowning I will flail for the surface. If I have a gun pulled on me animal instincts will rise up and encourage me to fight or flee.

Do I fear death logically? No. Do I fear dying? A little, the process of getting there will probably hurt a bit.

I am content to live or die. I'm under orders from God to not seek death so I don't. I'm not worried about missing out. I will have plenty of time to be alive and dead in any case. Plus I suspect that in heaven all joy and pleasure from experiences are shared and that that is part of the joy so I will have missed nothing.

[Tarski]

MorningStar, on 10 April 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:

Quote

It they were viscerally despirately fearful of that possibility, they would have done something about it a long time ago.
But they didn't. On the other hand, we don't fail to keep ourselves alive at all costs if we can.

PS: You would be just as insanely fearful of the blackness if you were staring down the barrel of a gun even if you had no more family on earth and nothing left to do.

I will always have something to live for.

Which makes me think that you don't really believe that what comes after death counts as living.
I don't think it counts either.

Don't tell others what they believe or don't believe.

Edit: OK then, change "think that" to "wonder if".

Edited by Tarski, 01 May 2012 - 03:48 PM.

[seriously honestly]

Craig Paxton, on 10 April 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

...but once it is not worth living

Entirely a matter of perspective

[thesometimesaint]

seriously honestly:

All that is certain is that we are alive today and that someday we will die. The eventuality of my death doesn't bother me near as much as how I live my life now.

[seriously honestly]

thesometimesaint, on 01 May 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:

seriously honestly:

All that is certain is that we are alive today and that someday we will die. The eventuality of my death doesn't bother me near as much as how I live my life now.

...so...does that mean you are agreeing with my former post? Not sure what you are getting at.

[Pa Pa]

seriously honestly, on 01 May 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

Entirely a matter of perspective

I live in constant pain, perspective is important, but I have earned a release from this hell I am living in…I just can’t figure out what God is up too? When I see him I will be asking….What took so long! Pain is just too much at one point and people are ready to go. I know I am.

[thesometimesaint]

Pa Pa:

If I take enough meds I don't feel the pain, but they zombify me. So it is a balancing act, a little too much and my breathing stops, and I have to remember to breathe. Too little and the pain returns with a venegence. That being said I've had a good life with a family that loves and cares for me. So if God calls me back I'm ready to go. But I'm in no big hurry either.

Edited by thesometimesaint, 01 May 2012 - 10:20 AM.

[Carborendum]

Craig Paxton, on 10 April 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

Ok I understand ... not dying prematurealy...but...why fight the enevitible?  When death is literally knocking on your door

How do you know it is inevitable?  Maybe to your friend, it was not inevitable until long after you believed it was.

Death is always literally knocking on my door.  Do I just give up and stop eating?  No.  I like food.

Not only is there a lot of pain often associated with the dying process (which I'd really like to avoid) but there are things about this life that we don't want to give up.  I want to be able to interact with my children as they grow up.  I'd like to hold my first grandchild in my arms.  I'd like to have the fun of throwing a baseball around with my grandchildren.  If I die, I won't have that.

Is there a better place?  What does that have to do with it?  We have some real treasures in this life for which there are no substitutes.  Are there better things?  Yes.  But they are supplements not substitutes.

I will say this.  I will fight until it occurs TO ME that it is inevitable and imminent.  At that point, I'll say I'd rather not fight it any longer.  I just need to make the best of the time I've got.  Maybe your friend felt like fighting was the best way to spend that limited time.  It is difficult for someone else to judge just what is going on in a dying person's mind.

[cinepro]

Deborah, on 10 April 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

In answer to the question, in large part it's the survival instinct, something that is so strong in us we will fight to hold onto life. But even when we've accepted the inevitable our loved ones may still be holding us here.

My first thought was also the "survival instinct".  Wherever it comes from, I think we all have a basic desire to stay alive.  And for all of our "faith", there are still many unknowns about death, and most people have a fear of the unknown as well.

It's also possible that Craig's "illustration" doesn't apply to all people of faith.  Certainly, there have been people who faced death with dignity, bravery and acceptance throughout history.

I've told my kids that I don't care how I die, I just hope it isn't something stupid (aka a Darwin Award).

And I've told them that if I die before their mother, it's likely she'll find someone else who can bring her companionship, and I want her to be happy.  So his death must look like an accident.