Serious Question: Why Do Believers Fight To Stay Alive When Faced With Death?

[Craig Paxton]

As an agnostic, non-believer I completely understand why someone of my ilk would fight to enjoy and live this life for as long as possible and to its fullest extent…this being the only life I believe I will ever experience…I want to enjoy and live THIS life for as long as it is enjoyable.

But why do I repeatedly see believers with cancer or organ failure or some other medical malady, fight with every fiber of their being, submit to every possible evasive medical procedure known to extend their life for a few more years or months, to their last possible fighting breath? Why do this IF they in fact have a supposedly better life waiting for them on some mystical “other side” and believe or even claim to “KNOW” that this better life exists? Why put up such a valiant fight?

I have a dear deeply believing LDS friend who has under gone all kinds of medical procedures…terrible surgeries, chemo…months of supposed recovery in absolute misery…to fight his cancer that at the present looks to be winning despite his valiant fight to beat the inevitable. He is currently in hospice care and his days are now near an end.

His promised priesthood blessing of a full recovery unfulfilled…he still never lost hope…and has now finally resigned to his ultimate fate….but not until he fought so hard to remain in this life…despite having the firm belief that a better life awaited him.

While I would never ask him this question... I do ask it here…why fight so hard if the so called next life is so much better…is it that knowing really isn’t knowing? Is it the question of all of the uncertainty that believers claim but when faced with reality choose really knowing rather than claimed knowing?

I really want to understand…please help me to do so.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Craig Paxton

[MorningStar]

Seriously?

Because we want to be with our loved ones here as long as possible. That's natural. We don't want them to be heartbroken either. I'm not afraid of dying. I'm afraid of my husband and children being devastated.

We also want to make sure we're ready to die and that we learned everything we were meant to learn.

[HiJolly]

I am a cancer survivor, Craig. In 2007 I was diagnosed, operated on, treated and 'released'. I could have chosen to die, I suppose. But my oldest two kids had just gotten married, and I was in my 40's.

Today I have 4 wonderful grandkids, a good marriage myself, and 2 more kids engaged to be married in June.

Why wouldn't I want to live for that? With 9 children of my own, I may have dozens of grandkids! When death finally comes, I am sure I will welcome it. But I don't mind my human nature (and desires) which crave continued life.

HiJolly

[Craig Paxton]

Seriously?

Because we want to be with our loved ones here as long as possible. That's natural. We don't want them to be heartbroken either. I'm not afraid of dying. I'm afraid of my husband and children being devastated.

We also want to make sure we're ready to die and that we learned everything we were meant to learn.

Ok I understand wanting to stay here on this earth for as long as possible...and not dying prematurealy...thats a given...but that wasn't my question...why fight the enevitible? When death is literally knocking on your door...why continue to fight against it? From my perspecitve...its as if those who are waging these fights literally would rather stay here...fight to stay here rather than literally face death...ok I get that...but IF I bleieved that there was a better life on the other side wiating for my...I'd want to return to a loving father and deceased family members...IF that is what I bleived...but that is not what I see happeneing ...instead these faithful people are fighting to stay here...rather than face death...I find it curious.behavior if they believe what they claim....particularly in light of the fact that we all die...and even those who die claim to believe that they will be with those family members left behind.

[Calm]

I have known those who have chosen to let nature take its course and those who have chosen to spend every last ounce of energy on fighting and those in between, who fight and fight hard up to a certain point and then feel they have done enough and let go.

In almost every case it is caring about what they can still do for and with their loved ones that they base their decision on, whether they believe others still need them.

[Maidservant]

I hate taking naps and I always have. I'm always afraid I might miss something.

I am not afraid of being dead (although I can't imagine I would enjoy any dying process), although I personally don't think that anything "better" is waiting for me simply on the fact of my death. For me, being dead is still being alive, just missing a section of my being (a body) and being in another room that makes it extremely difficult (though not impossible) to communicate with my children or others I love. Of course, it is difficult the other way also--communicating with my husband and my dad and my grandparents that have passed.

But I am afraid of missing out on the 'fun' here. Which I have examined in myself several times without a final conclusion. I mean . . . ok, so I don't want to die because I haven't gotten that book published yet (very small, selfish example to illustrate the point). But I ask myself . . . am I saying there will never be an opportunity to share my writing as eternity progresses? So there is a lot to examine there.

For me, if I die, it will mean that I have failed to unlock the key or find and employ the secret to staying alive. I don't think human beings should die and that the reason we are dying is because we think we should and are consenting to that. . . . but I'm still thinking through this too.

I am not sure what I would do for myself in the case of a catastrophic illness. I have some ideas (head for the holistic stuff rather than the medical profession, for example), but I just can't say. But I do know many LDS people with Living Wills where they wish to die peacefully and not have heroic efforts.

I think your friend will have his own answer, and it will be based on who he is in the entire, not because he falls into a category that you made, "believer". Whatever his reasons for fighting for life will probably be personal and would not apply to other human beings. Why don't you ask him? That sounds like a great conversation for both of you .

[Craig Paxton]

I am a cancer survivor, Craig. In 2007 I was diagnosed, operated on, treated and 'released'. I could have chosen to die, I suppose. But my oldest two kids had just gotten married, and I was in my 40's.

Today I have 4 wonderful grandkids, a good marriage myself, and 2 more kids engaged to be married in June.

Why wouldn't I want to live for that? With 9 children of my own, I may have dozens of grandkids! When death finally comes, I am sure I will welcome it. But I don't mind my human nature (and desires) which crave continued life.

HiJolly

I completely respect your desire to live...and to want to stay here...and congrats in beating cancer...so are you saying that you fought to stay here for your wanting more experiences with your family or becasue you loved THIS life? Personally I would fight with everything I have becasue for me this is all I have...Is your motivation really the same as mine? I'm just trying to get inside believers heads and understand their motivation

[HiJolly]

but IF I bleieved that there was a better life on the other side wiating for my...I'd want to return to a loving father and deceased family members...IF that is what I bleived...but that is not what I see happeneing ...

What I see here is a false, one dimensional caricature of real people. It's completely fake, Craig.

HiJolly

[HiJolly]

I completely respect your desire to live...and to want to stay here...and congrats in beating cancer...so are you saying that you fought to stay here for your wanting more experiences with your family or becasue you loved THIS life? Personally I would fight with everything I have becasue for me this is all I have...Is your motivation really the same as mine? I'm just trying to get inside believers heads and understand their motivation

This life is cruel, harsh, unforgiving, brutal and worse. But yes, I love this life. I think mostly because of my relationship with God, He has helped me see the joy and beauty of it all. But that's my experience.

No, I really don't think this life is all I have. But there is great value in living life as though it WERE all I have. I appreciate the fact that athiests can cherish life just as much as I do. I think we *all* should, for whatever reason.

HiJolly

[mercyngrace]

Too much I've left undone yet...

[Maidservant]

becasue you loved THIS life?

There may be some deeper assumptions in how you are asking this (entire) question. Not sure. But for Latter-day Saints at least, we believe we wanted to come here to this life on purpose. You could just as well ask . . . why in the world would we leave our heavenly home where we had it pretty good, in order to arrive on this two-bit planet where we get to suffer? Weeeeee! So if you or anyone can answer that question, then maybe the part where we don't want to die that much either would also be answered. Why did we come here at ALL? We must have wanted to be here in the first place for a reason--love, adventure, sacredness.

It's a good question, Craig, it is . . . but I think the answers are personal to each person, not doctrinal to a certain category of people.

[thesometimesaint]

Craig Paxton:

All we know is that this life is 100% fatal. We are ALL really doing is just prolonging the inevitable.

We don't know what is premature. My mom lived to 93 was that premature when I have aunts and uncles that lived to be 103?

Some do give up, but the vast majority don't. It seems to be a built in that we want to live a meaningful, to us, life however long that happens to turn out.

I have loved ones on both sides of the veil. Which ones should I choose to be with?

Edited April 10, 2012 by thesometimesaint

[MorningStar]

Oh, so if we really believed in God, "you're dying" would be good news, right?

[Tarski]

Seriously?

Because we want to be with our loved ones here as long as possible.

You have more loved ones on the other side: Jesus, Heavenly Father, the Holy Ghost (nobody thinks of him for some reason) and any desceased family members such as grandparents just for starters.

Not only that, but people, even religious people, routinely show extreme fear in the face of death and struggle to stay alive even in cases where their lives are unpleasant and even when family members are all gone. They even desparately beg for their life when confronted by an assailant with a weapon.

Why the extreme fear when looking down the barrel of a gun?

The reason: They viscerally fear the unknown and the possibility of nonexistence. Even people of faith know deep down that they really "do not know".

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

As an agnostic, non-believer I completely understand why someone of my ilk would fight to enjoy and live this life for as long as possible and to its fullest extent…this being the only life I believe I will ever experience…I want to enjoy and live THIS life for as long as it is enjoyable.

But why do I repeatedly see believers with cancer or organ failure or some other medical malady, fight with every fiber of their being, submit to every possible evasive medical procedure known to extend their life for a few more years or months, to their last possible fighting breath? Why do this IF they in fact have a supposedly better life waiting for them on some mystical “other side” and believe or even claim to “KNOW” that this better life exists? Why put up such a valiant fight?

I don't know...I would not. If I hurt this much at 55, I don't know how I would endure for 20 or 30 more years. I do want to live until next month when my new granddaughter gets here.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[thesometimesaint]

Tarski:

I have no fear of death. It is how that comes about that is the problem.

[Buzzard]

Well, I'm kind of in that boat. My cancer is not end stage, but it is no longer curable. So while it might be a few years, barring a traffic accident, I know what will cause my demise. And I have thought long and hard about this subject. So a few of my thoughts:

-This mortal life is a great and precious gift from God. To treat it lightly, like a cloak to be discarded when it gets a little frayed, would seem to my way of thinking to be throwing that gift back into his face. Also, given my current hightly imperfect state, a little bit more time to sand down some rough edges before I have to look God in the eye and account for my time here may not be a bad idea.

-I hope to stave off the inevitable for a while, but once my current regimen is no longer effective, it is not a given that I will use the next line of defense, because the side effects are so much harsher. Are a few months of misery worth it? Short answer is that I don't know, I plan of making that call when it gets to that point. But much to my wife's consternation, I have already told her and the doc that I may not be interested in the "mean and nasty" chemo if a reasonable chance for a cure is not out there-and the current state of medicine is that it is not.

-Another reason for hanging around is that I enjoy the company of my family and friends. I would like to see my daughter home from her mission, married, and grandchildren. The first is pretty much assured, the second and third depend on events beyond my control. So while I don't fear death, there are some things about mortality I'm not anxious to miss out on.

-I'm sure that the next life is a "better place", but there are some sensations of mortality I also enjoy. I love the feel of a hard uphill hike, your lungs (or in my case, what is left of them) bursting, your legs begging for mercy, but then you top out on a ridge or peak and see the big world laid out below you. It's a feeling that's hard to understand unless you experience it. In other words, some things we experience in this life probably won't be available in the next. Just like there will be new ones there to look forward to.

BTW, there is nothing like the certainty that the days of your probation are more limited than you thought they were to focus your mind and spirit on getting right with God. Shouldn't be that way, but that's human nature, i guess.

[MorningStar]

You have more loved ones on the other side: Jesus, Heavenly Father, the Holy Ghost (nobody thinks of him for some reason) and any desceased family members such as grandparents just for starters.

Not only that, but people, even religious people, routinely show extreme fear in the face of death and struggle to stay alive even in cases where their lives are unpleasant and even when family members are all gone. They even desparately beg for their life when confronted by an assailant with a weapon.

Why the extreme fear when looking down the barrel of a gun?

The reason: They viscerally fear the unknown and the possibility of nonexistence. Even people of faith know deep down that they really "do not know".

Or maybe they're afraid they haven't lived a good enough life?

Yes, I have loved ones on the other side, but I have family to take care of here.

[Freedom]

Craig,

I think you bring up a very valid point. There have been a few talks by church leaders about being at peace with the inevitable, be it death, disease or other hardship. Some do fight in vain, spending resources of time and money on a lost cause when they could be spending their last days and hours with loved ones. There is great value in fighting for life, but there are those who fight out of fear rather than out of good will. We are to endure to the end, not give up when we have had enough; nevertheless there are many who fear death despite their beliefs. Sometimes it is because they do not have their life in order, sometimes it is because they do not actually belief what they profess. You made a comment about a priesthood blessing promising healing that never came. This talk considers the frailties of man in giving blessings:

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2010/04/healing-the-sick?lang=eng&query=priesthood+blessings

I know some who fear death, but I know many more faithful saints who welcome it when the time comes because they have raised their family well and have enjoyed the tender mercies of God. We are by an large hopelessly flawed. We all profess beliefs that we do not follow. We know we should eat property and exercise but dread it nonetheless. We all know we should get along with family but often loath family gatherings. We know what is right but we all, atheists and deists alike, lack commitment or lack of a true testimony of what is right. If we really believed it is important to get a proper education, why do so many fall short? It is our natural inclination to be loathsome, those who have discipline overcome and live what they believe.

[Buzzard]

You have more loved ones on the other side: Jesus, Heavenly Father, the Holy Ghost (nobody thinks of him for some reason) and any desceased family members such as grandparents just for starters.

Not only that, but people, even religious people, routinely show extreme fear in the face of death and struggle to stay alive even in cases where their lives are unpleasant and even when family members are all gone. They even desparately beg for their life when confronted by an assailant with a weapon.

Why the extreme fear when looking down the barrel of a gun?

The reason: They viscerally fear the unknown and the possibility of nonexistence. Even people of faith know deep down that they really "do not know".

You keep thinking that if it makes you feel better. As someone looking down that barrel, I have no doubts at all as to my continued existence beyond death.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

You keep thinking that if it makes you feel better. As someone looking down that barrel, I have no doubts at all as to my continued existence beyond death.

Amen

[Mark Beesley]

As an agnostic, non-believer I completely understand why someone of my ilk would fight to enjoy and live this life for as long as possible and to its fullest extent…this being the only life I believe I will ever experience…I want to enjoy and live THIS life for as long as it is enjoyable.

But why do I repeatedly see believers with cancer or organ failure or some other medical malady, fight with every fiber of their being, submit to every possible evasive medical procedure known to extend their life for a few more years or months, to their last possible fighting breath? Why do this IF they in fact have a supposedly better life waiting for them on some mystical “other side” and believe or even claim to “KNOW” that this better life exists? Why put up such a valiant fight?

I have a dear deeply believing LDS friend who has under gone all kinds of medical procedures…terrible surgeries, chemo…months of supposed recovery in absolute misery…to fight his cancer that at the present looks to be winning despite his valiant fight to beat the inevitable. He is currently in hospice care and his days are now near an end.

His promised priesthood blessing of a full recovery unfulfilled…he still never lost hope…and has now finally resigned to his ultimate fate….but not until he fought so hard to remain in this life…despite having the firm belief that a better life awaited him.

While I would never ask him this question... I do ask it here…why fight so hard if the so called next life is so much better…is it that knowing really isn’t knowing? Is it the question of all of the uncertainty that believers claim but when faced with reality choose really knowing rather than claimed knowing?

I really want to understand…please help me to do so.

In Doctine and Covenants 138:50 we read,

"For the dead had looked upon the long absence of their spirits from their bodies as a bondage."

Yes, we look forward to that day of rest when we will no longer be subject to temptation and mortal weakness. But that day is after the resurrection. Before then we have to endure a state of separation of the spirit from the body. At present we do not entirely understand what that will be like, but we do know, based on President Smith's vision, that it is not an entirely pleasant experience, unless you're into bondage.

The great blessing that we enjoy which is denied to Lucifer and those who rebelled is the privilege of having a physical body. It seems only natural, and is probably inbred because of our spiritual natures, that we will want to hold onto this physical body for as long as possible.

Think about about it. the believer knows that this lifetime is the only time he or she will ever have to learn from the unique experience of mortality. Whatever knowlege we glean from this life through our experiences, that knowledge rises with us in the resurrection. See D&C 130:18-19.

[Mudcat]

Hi Craig,

As an Evangelical, I have some views that are different from LDS. But I think we would at least share the common view that as Christians, we aren't just bideing our time in our mortal bodies until eternity "begins" so to speak. We are already in an eternal situation. Our physical death doesn't change that.

LDS seem to believe we existed before our present state. Personally I don't. I do believe from the moment of faith in Christ, we are regenerated in a spiritually eternal sense. So there is some commonality in our views, though not complete consistency.

That being said, the Bible alone establishes that we are called to do good works for God, that we will be tested, we will have trials, we will suffer and through all this we will also be blessed. I imagine the BoM, D and C, and so on teach a similar premise.

I see no Scriptural precedent, that we should roll over and die, because we get some bad news about our health. Paul expresses his own thoughts in his letter to the Philippians when says, "For me to live is Christ, to die is gain." Christian are challenged to struggle with this life, so that the fruit of the Spirit can be expressed through us.

Regards,

Mudcat

Edited April 10, 2012 by Mudcat

[CV75]

While I would never ask him this question... I do ask it here…why fight so hard if the so called next life is so much better…is it that knowing really isn’t knowing? Is it the question of all of the uncertainty that believers claim but when faced with reality choose really knowing rather than claimed knowing?

I really want to understand…please help me to do so.

I suggest that you do ask him or his family, as this will be the most direct experience you can have n getting an honest answer to an honest question, which is a key element to really udnerstanding. You have to put yourself out there "with real intent" and in a way that shows him or his family that you want to know because you love them and will do something noble with the answer.

I do think that the reasons a beleiver would fight to stay alive would mirror those of any other person. Some may be deemed noble, and some are not.

Perhaps staying alive is how he feels he can best honor his stewradship. Perhaps others rely on him doing so, or he thinks there is some benefit to others the longer he hangs on. Perhaps there is something else he wants to experieince and learn, as difficult and painful as sch an experieince can be. Perhaps he is listening to the still small voice instructing him to fight for life. Perhaps he is drawing closer to the things of the spirit and finding great meaning in this life or fighting for it, and that offsets any other consideration.

[CV75]

...and as I think of it, "this life" and the "next life" are only a reflection of each other, so loving one is loving the other, and dealing with one is dealing with the other. Decisions affecting one is always in reference to the other, which is how just about any meanigful decision is made.