249 replies to this topic

[Chris Smith]

If anyone's interested, I posted a writeup of last night's gay student panel on my blog. Note that the summary is based on a liveblog put together by The Student Review. I couldn't actually get inside to hear what was said for myself, because people were packed in around the doors. Lots of folks got turned away for lack of room.

Edited by Chris Smith, 05 April 2012 - 02:44 AM.

[CV75]

Chris Smith, on 05 April 2012 - 02:43 AM, said:

If anyone's interested, I posted a writeup of last night's gay student panel on my blog. Note that the summary is based on a liveblog put together by The Student Review. I couldn't actually get inside to hear what was said for myself, because people were packed in around the doors. Lots of folks got turned away for lack of room.

From my perspective, Christian love and understanding in the context of the Restored Gospel would frame the exchange more like this: if somebody says, 'I'm gay,' you should say 'Okay, why are you telling me this?’ before asking, ‘what can I do to help you through this?' I think it is less presumptuous--what does a gay person automatically need to be "helped through" that a straight person doesn’t?

[BlueDreams]

The forum was great! though I had to leave a little early for a group project, I did get good notes of all the people who participated, minus the Q&A.. I'll post some from this later, but I'm super busy today....I don't know when though.  Just so you know Chris, I got there an hour early, and that's the only reason I got a seat. By 6:30 the seats were taken and people began sitting all over the floor. I hope they'll do it again in the future in a bigger room and make it a more open event. I understand why they didn't though...it was a first time event and there had been a number of calls of complaints, insisting that it should be cancelled. and a protest of sorts about it being allowed. But man, was it good!



With luv,
BD

Edited by BlueDreams, 05 April 2012 - 06:06 AM.

[lostinmd]

I believe it is only a matter of a decade or so before those leading GLBT lifestyles will be given full access to Church rights.  I am excited at the idea.

[mbh26]

I guess it's hard for me to understand what it means to be "gay?"  Are you only attracted to the same gender or do you just prefer your own gender?  I remember the heartbreak of one of my favorite companions in the mission.  He came home to his parents getting divorced.  The reason was his father had decided he was gay. In my mind he must have been bisexual, otherwise how did he procreate?  I'm sure a lot of heterosexuals would like to have other sexual partners, but they sacrifice that to maintain the family unit.  How is what this man was called upon to sacrifice different?  For me there shouldn't be any place for that type of selfish lifestyle choice in a religion that is trying to uphold the family unit.

Regardless of what I think, I don't think we'll ever see gay marriages solemnized in Mormon temples in my lifetime.

Edited by mbh26, 05 April 2012 - 11:31 AM.

[jskains]

lostinmd, on 05 April 2012 - 07:06 AM, said:

I believe it is only a matter of a decade or so before those leading GLBT lifestyles will be given full access to Church rights.  I am excited at the idea.

Yes, then we can allow even more non-standard sexual lifestyles access just because someone wants it. Pedophilia, Incest... I mean, they can't CONTROL it, so the Church should just stop making it a sin!

Alcoholism too. That's just not fair. They can't CONTROL their alchoholism, so the Word of Wisdom makes them feel bad and unloved. Time to ditch it..

JMS

JMS has left the building.

[David T]

jskains, on 05 April 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

Yes, then we can allow even more non-standard sexual lifestyles access just because someone wants it. Pedophilia, Incest... I mean, they can't CONTROL it, so the Church should just stop making it a sin!

Equating sexual assault of children with homosexuality = FAIL

Edited by David T, 05 April 2012 - 08:42 AM.

[wenglund]

David T, on 05 April 2012 - 08:24 AM, said:

Equating sexual assault of children with homosexuality = FAIL

Comparing sexually defiling of children with sexually defying of homosexuals = Success

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Wade is out of the thread.

[lostinmd]

wenglund, on 05 April 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

Comparing sexually defiling of children with sexually defying of homosexuals = Success

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

wow Wade, this is very telling of who you are as a person.  So you want to be remembered as a person that equates GLBT lifestyles with the ruthless and disgusting actions of pdeophilia?

[blueadept]

Chris Smith, on 05 April 2012 - 02:43 AM, said:

If anyone's interested, I posted a writeup of last night's gay student panel on my blog. Note that the summary is based on a liveblog put together by The Student Review. I couldn't actually get inside to hear what was said for myself, because people were packed in around the doors. Lots of folks got turned away for lack of room.

Thanks for the blog.  I'm impressed that the panel was even given the opportunity to do this.  I'm glad to hear the event was successful.  Those that have an issue with dialoguing, as some posters apparently do, have some REAL issues to deal with.

[LeSellers]

There's a difference between saying that all homosexuals are pedophiles and saying that the sin of homosexuality (the action of homosex) and the sin of pedophilia are both reprehensible.

It is, however, interesting that homosexual pedophiles are a disproportionately large proportion of all pedophiles. Male pedophiles attacking boys and female pedophiles attacking girls are homosexual pedophiles, by definition. Somehow homosexual apologists try to draw a distinction between homosexuals who only engage with other adult homosexuals and homosexuals who engage with both other adults and with children, too. There are none I've ever heard of who engage solely with children of their same sex; when it involves children, it also involves adults, and this is true for heterosexual pedophiles, as well. Just as homosexuals tend to focus on their own sex, pedophiles tend to focus on on one sex or the other. When that focus is their own sex, they are homosexual pedophiles.

It seems undeniable to me, but I guess homosexual apologists must see it differently.

Lehi

Lehi has left the thread.

[wenglund]

lostinmd, on 05 April 2012 - 08:35 AM, said:

Wow Wade, this is very telling of who you are as a person.  So you want to be remembered as a person that equates GLBT lifestyles with the ruthless and disgusting actions of pdeophilia?

Geez, lost, do you want to be remembered as the person who twisted my comments beyond recognition? My comments were confined to "sexual defilement," and said nothing about lifestyles and ruthlessness. Sexual defilement is sexual defilement, just as sin is sin. What about this don't you get?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[wenglund]

blueadept, on 05 April 2012 - 08:38 AM, said:

Thanks for the blog.  I'm impressed that the panel was even given the opportunity to do this.  I'm glad to hear the event was successful.  Those that have an issue with dialoguing, as some posters apparently do, have some REAL issues to deal with.

CFR that some posters have a problem with dialoguing.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[David T]

wenglund, on 05 April 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

Sexual defilement is sexual defilement, just as sin is sin. What about this don't you get?

Fornication and Adultery between consenting homosexuals = Fornication and Adultery between consenting heterosexuals.
Heterosexual Rape = Homosexual Rape. Rape is rape is rape.

Rape and assault  in any degree (especially when a child is victimized) is NOT EVER to be equalled with the willful and mutual choice of consenting adults.

Edited by David T, 05 April 2012 - 09:05 AM.

[Sky]

Chris Smith, on 05 April 2012 - 02:43 AM, said:

If anyone's interested, I posted a writeup of last night's gay student panel on my blog. Note that the summary is based on a liveblog put together by The Student Review. I couldn't actually get inside to hear what was said for myself, because people were packed in around the doors. Lots of folks got turned away for lack of room.

Thanks for sharing this.  Homosexuality is an issue that cannot continue to be such a hush-hush subject or stigmatized...it needs to be more openly talked about and acknowledged in the Church. That doesn't necessarily mean that we have to compromise on our doctrine that homosexual acts are sinful.  But our gay/SSA brothers and sisters deserve to be acknowledged and treated with dignity.  We lose too many of them.

[blueadept]

wenglund, on 05 April 2012 - 08:53 AM, said:

CFR that some posters have a problem with dialoguing.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

jskains getting booted from the thread should be sufficient enough of a CFR IMHO

[wenglund]

David T, on 05 April 2012 - 08:56 AM, said:

Would you agree with the following, wade?

Fornication and Adultery between homosexuals = Fornication and Adultery between heterosexuals.

Sexual assault of children is in a completely different league.

To avoid the potential semantic confusion with words like "adultery," let me just say that I agree that within the set of sexual defilements there are differentiation in terms of the kind and severity of sexual defilements, and thus a range of subsets.

However, to me, not all hetero-sex is included in the set of sexual defilement and sin, whereas all homo-sex and sex with children are included in that set.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Senator]

CV75, on 05 April 2012 - 04:40 AM, said:

From my perspective, Christian love and understanding in the context of the Restored Gospel would frame the exchange more like this: if somebody says, 'I'm gay,' you should say 'Okay, why are you telling me this?’ before asking, ‘what can I do to help you through this?' I think it is less presumptuous--what does a gay person automatically need to be "helped through" that a straight person doesn’t?

We're told that SSA is a malady. Every malady has its own set of unique challenges.

[wenglund]

blueadept, on 05 April 2012 - 09:15 AM, said:

jskains getting booted from the thread should be sufficient enough of a CFR IMHO

He wasn't booted for being against dialoguing on the subject, but rather because of the offending nature of his dialogue, and so the CFR stands.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[california boy]

LeSellers, on 05 April 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

There's a difference between saying that all homosexuals are pedophiles and saying that the sin of homosexuality (the action of homosex) and the sin of pedophilia are both reprehensible.

It is, however, interesting that homosexual pedophiles are a disproportionately large proportion of all pedophiles. Male pedophiles attacking boys and female pedophiles attacking girls are homosexual pedophiles, by definition. Somehow homosexual apologists try to draw a distinction between homosexuals who only engage with other adult homosexuals and homosexuals who engage with both other adults and with children, too. There are none I've ever heard of who engage solely with children of their same sex; when it involves children, it also involves adults, and this is true for heterosexual pedophiles, as well. Just as homosexuals tend to focus on their own sex, pedophiles tend to focus on on one sex or the other. When that focus is their own sex, they are homosexual pedophiles.

It seems undeniable to me, but I guess homosexual apologists must see it differently.

Lehi

Interesting twist of facts.  Can I ask you a question?  There is currently a very high profile case going on at Penn State.  I am sure you are probably familiar with the case.  It appears a married man with two female children has been preying on young boys for some time.  There has been no indication that the person involved is gay.  There has been no allegations that he has had sex with men.  His wife seems to think he is straight.  Yet he molests young boys.  So are you trying to say that every man that molests young boys is gay?  Do you have any proof of this?  Has there actually been a study of men who molest boys whether they are gay or straight?  Or are you just trying to connect dots that do not exist.  I really don't know much about this subject, so I am interested in where you get your knowledge about pedophiles from.