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What Should You Pay Tithing On?


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#1 Saints Alive

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 05:33 PM

We'll keep this real simple. I will list a few thing, you list weather you should pay tithing on it or not.

- net income
- gross income
- tax refund
- cash gifts
- student loan money
- material gifts
- dividends
- home loans
- buisness loans
- money from selling a car
- yard sale money
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#2 rpn

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 05:55 PM

- net income yes
- gross income yes
- tax refund (only if originally paid just on net)
- cash gifts yes
- student loan money why you are paying it back with interest, it isn't increase
- material gifts yes
- dividends yes
- home loans no (unless you mean you loaned to someone else and are collecting interest?)
- buisness loans no, see above
- money from selling a car NOT unless you get more for it that you paid in the first place
- yard sale money no, you are just transfering your property from one form to another (though if you are selling a valuable antique you got for nothing from someone else's yard sale, then the answer would be yes).

added

garden produce or sale of eggs YES

student grants or scholarships YES

gift cards from credit card rewards YES

Edited by rpn, 19 March 2012 - 05:56 PM.

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#3 Saints Alive

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 06:01 PM

"student grants and scholarships"

Really? My scholarship paid for all my tuition for 4 years, that would be about $80,000, none of which I personally saw ( it went straight to the university) so I would be about 8,000 in the hole as a college graduate in a very bad economy.
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#4 LDSToronto

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 06:10 PM

student grants or scholarships YES



This is illegal in some countries.

H.
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#5 BCSpace

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 06:13 PM

We'll keep this real simple. I will list a few thing, you list weather you should pay tithing on it or not.


It is an excellent exercise to ask your Bishop or Stake President. The answer you should get is something like "one tenth of your increase or income". They will not define it in terms of gross or net. In other words, it's up to you.
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#6 Saints Alive

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 06:17 PM


It is an excellent exercise to ask your Bishop or Stake President. The answer you should get is something like "one tenth of your increase or income". They will not define it in terms of gross or net. In other words, it's up to you.


I know that is the standard answer, I was curious what others considered "income"

When my wife was investigating the church in college her missionaries told her she should pay tithing on student loan. I told her that was rediculous, for the same reason you wouldn't pay Tithing on a car loan or home loan. It's debt NOT income!
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#7 BCSpace

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 06:36 PM

I know that is the standard answer, I was curious what others considered "income"


When my wife was investigating the church in college her missionaries told her she should pay tithing on student loan. I told her that was rediculous, for the same reason you wouldn't pay Tithing on a car loan or home loan. It's debt NOT income!


You're going to have to parse it yourself but I agree that is interesting to see how others interpret it for themselves and possibiliy informative as to how one might go about it.

In this case, I think it ridiculous that one would pay tithing on a student loan because usually one would be paying on the money earned and used to pay it back. Of course one could conceivably pay tithing on the student loan and then subtract from one's paycheck the money used to pay the loan back and not pay tithing on those payment amounts. But I think the first method is easier.

One could also ask if one pays tithing on gross income all their life should they pay on social security disbursements once they retire. And one might argue that total lifetime SS payments may or may not equal what one contributed while working. Similarly, one might want to pay tithing only on the interest earned from retirement accounts if they paid tithing on the contributions while working.

There are not going to be any hard and fast answers published in the doctrine. One will have to decide for oneself and "haply feel" after what others do.
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#8 Freedom

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 09:20 PM

Tithing is payed on your earnings. I would no more pay tithing on a cash gift than I would on any other gift. If I get a gift card, I spend it all. I base it on my gross income because, although I bring home less than my gross, the deductions give me a net benefit. I don't deduct my grocery bill from my taxable income so why would I deduct the taxes that pay for the roads I drive on? paying tithing on a loan is inappropriate because it is not earnings. You will pay it back plus interest. Likewise, I would not pay tithing on the mortgage that the bank gave me to purchase my home. As with a business lone, this will be paid back but it will help you earn income from your business which would be subject to tithing.

I would not count the money I earned from selling my car because I already payed tithing on the money I used to purchase it and the return is a depreciation of value. I would pay tithing, however, if I purchased a car for $5,000, fixed it up and sold it for $7,000. If I purchased it for $5,000, spend $700 to fix it and sold it for $7,000, I would pay tithes on $1,300. If you win money in a lottery, the church will not accept tithing for it, but you are free to donate to fast offerings or any other category. I would not pay tithing on an inheritance because, as stated, I did not earn it. It was gifted to me.
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#9 ERayR

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 09:38 PM



This is illegal in some countries.

H.


It is not illegal to pay tithing on grants or scolarships but it may be illegal to yous the grant money to pay it. Tithing n those sums can be paid from personal funds from other sources.
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#10 cinepro

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 09:42 PM

Here's a podcast on this very subject:

What the IRS Could Learn From Mormons

Edited by cinepro, 19 March 2012 - 09:44 PM.

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#11 Freedom

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 09:43 PM


It is not illegal to pay tithing on grants or scolarships but it may be illegal to yous the grant money to pay it. Tithing n those sums can be paid from personal funds from other sources.


Should a student pay tithing on the funds their parents contributed to their education? If I pay for my daughters BA, should she pay tithing on that even though I already did and she did not actually earn any income? What if I pay for another child's dance lessons or for a trip to Ireland? I do not consider grants and scholarships as income, I think it is missing the point. It is a gift to get you in a good paying job so that you will contribute to society.
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#12 ERayR

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 09:45 PM

We'll keep this real simple. I will list a few thing, you list weather you should pay tithing on it or not.

- net income Yes
- gross income Yes
- tax refund Depends - was tithing paid on it previously.
- cash gifts Probably yes
- student loan money Resounding no. It is not increase
- material gifts Probably yes
- dividends Yes
- home loans Resounding no. It is not increase
- buisness loans Resounding no. It is not increase
- money from selling a car Did you sell the car for more than you paid for it? That would be the increase.
- yard sale money Did you sell the items for more than you paid for it? That would be the increase.


Pay on your increase.
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#13 ERayR

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 09:49 PM

Tithing is payed on your earnings. I would no more pay tithing on a cash gift than I would on any other gift. If I get a gift card, I spend it all. I base it on my gross income because, although I bring home less than my gross, the deductions give me a net benefit. I don't deduct my grocery bill from my taxable income so why would I deduct the taxes that pay for the roads I drive on? paying tithing on a loan is inappropriate because it is not earnings. You will pay it back plus interest. Likewise, I would not pay tithing on the mortgage that the bank gave me to purchase my home. As with a business lone, this will be paid back but it will help you earn income from your business which would be subject to tithing.

I would not count the money I earned from selling my car because I already payed tithing on the money I used to purchase it and the return is a depreciation of value. I would pay tithing, however, if I purchased a car for $5,000, fixed it up and sold it for $7,000. If I purchased it for $5,000, spend $700 to fix it and sold it for $7,000, I would pay tithes on $1,300. If you win money in a lottery, the church will not accept tithing for it, but you are free to donate to fast offerings or any other category. I would not pay tithing on an inheritance because, as stated, I did not earn it. It was gifted to me.


A gift is not increase? I don't understand your reasoning but then I don't have to.
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#14 Freedom

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 11:30 PM


A gift is not increase? I don't understand your reasoning but then I don't have to.


From my perspective, it becomes an impossible standard. At Christmas or at birthdays, do all your children pay tithing on their gifts? if you get a sweater for your birthday do you ask for the price so you can pay tithing on it? What if someone gives you a 10 year old lawnmower? What if someone gives you a sapling for an apple tree and it grows to produce hundreds of apples each year, do you pay tithing on these apples? What if you study and become qualified as an electrician, should you pay tithing on this knowledge? It could be argued to be an increase. The arguments go on forever and I have heard them all. Fortunately, to provide clarity, the first presidency has stated that one-tenth of all their interest annually' as stated in D&C 119:3-4 refers to our income. Robert Hales, when serving as the presiding bishop, reiterated this interpretation. He repeated this view as an apostle.

But of course, anyone is free to set their own standard.
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#15 Evergrow

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 11:49 PM

It's simple....

You pay on your "increase". You then make your best judgment on how you have increase according to your own situation.
That's all that's expected.
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#16 Evergrow

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 12:03 AM

We'll keep this real simple. I will list a few thing, you list weather you should pay tithing on it or not.


- net income (up to you.... I pay somewhere between net and gross, and even less than net with certain bills that I consider not giving me increase)
- gross income (up to you)
- tax refund (not if you tithed on it already)
- cash gifts (yes)
- student loan money (no, because it will not have existed once you pay on it plus interest. I also think it's wrong that when getting welfare and you are paying on a student loan, they don't allow you to count it. It's a bill with interest, it should be counted.)
- material gifts (no, you likely give gifts also, so it's in the gift void)
- dividends (yes)
- home loans (no)
- buisness loans (no)
- money from selling a car (yes if it's fresh money (didn't use money to buy it previously) and isn't used to buy something else, no if you originally bought the car, then you already payed tithing on it)
- yard sale money (no, because it's a trade)
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#17 thesometimesaint

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 05:43 AM

If you think you owe it then you probably do. However you can't think you owe it for someone else.
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#18 Saints Alive

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 05:47 AM

If you think you owe it then you probably do. However you can't think you owe it for someone else.


I disagree, I know people who payed tithing on buissness loans and student loans because they felt that they owed it. Hopefully the lord will bless them for their charity but it certainly wasn't nessisary.
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#19 thesometimesaint

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 05:56 AM

Saints Alive:

Personally I don't consider any loan tihing elegible. What I can't do is tell you what you think is elegible as an increase.
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#20 CV75

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 06:44 AM

We'll keep this real simple. I will list a few thing, you list weather you should pay tithing on it or not.

- net income
- gross income
- tax refund
- cash gifts
- student loan money
- material gifts
- dividends
- home loans
- buisness loans
- money from selling a car
- yard sale money

You've got all this money and you're asking advice about tithing!?!?
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