13 replies to this topic

[Bernard Gui]

Mrs. Gui and I were discussing a book we read by a Baptist minister who was dead for 90 minutes and came back to life. The book describes his short stay in heaven and the effects the experience have had on his life. Mrs. Gui observed that his narrative parallels those of several Book of Mormon characters who were allowed to see within the veil. Then, as I was reading Alma 29, I came across these verses:

7 Why should I desire that I were an angel, that I could speak unto all the ends of the earth?
8 For behold, the Lord doth grant unto all nations, of their own nation and tongue, to teach his word, yea, in wisdom, all that he seeth fit that they should have; therefore we see that the Lord doth counsel in wisdom, according to that which is just and true. (Book of Mormon, Alma, Chapter 29)


What do you think?

Bernard

Edited by Bernard Gui, 12 March 2012 - 11:33 PM.

[calmoriah]

You might find this interesting:

"Nigh unto Death": NDE Research and the Book of Mormon by Kevin Christensen
http://maxwellinstit...l=2&num=1&id=16

[Bernard Gui]

calmoriah, on 12 March 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

You might find this interesting:

"Nigh unto Death": NDE Research and the Book of Mormon by Kevin Christensen
http://maxwellinstit...l=2&num=1&id=16

Indeed! Thanks.

Bernard

[Libs]

I read Elane Durham's book, "I Stand All Amazed".  Her death experience led her to join the LDS Church.  I remember the main "feeling" she had, during her death experience, was this overwhelming love.

Other than an impression she got, about some "ordinances" she needed, I am not sure exactly what else led her to the LDS Church.  Seems like that part was kind of vague...and she does say, from the beginning, that she is not trying to convert anyone.

Edited by Libs, 13 March 2012 - 01:17 AM.

[Bernard Gui]

Any comments about Alma's statement?

Bernard

[Libs]

How does Alma's statement compare with the Baptist Minister's experience?  Did he become a Minister after his NDE?

[Bernard Gui]

No. I guess I need to be more explicit. "all he sees fit they should have."
What do you think that means?

Bernard

[ERMD]

I find Alma's desire to become an angel and preach the gospel to all the earth fascinating.  Alma knew that in order to be an angel, he had to leave the earth, whether it be by death or by some other means.  Since that was not his present assignment, he felt as though he sinned in his desire and admitted that he needed to be content with what the Lord had allotted him at that time.

We read later in Alma that he was translated, so in the end, he got his wish.  He became the angel he desired to be, and through the Book of Mormon, his testimony is being preached to to all the earth.

As far as his specific comment "all he sees fit they should have", I'm reminded of Alma 12:9-- And now Alma began to expound these things unto him, saying: It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him.

[Libs]

Bernard Gui, on 13 March 2012 - 06:26 AM, said:

No. I guess I need to be more explicit. "all he sees fit they should have."
What do you think that means?

Bernard

I imagine it means teaching them all that they are ready to accept or can understand.

[cinepro]

I just want to buy the world a Coke.

[ERMD]

And keep it company?

[Libs]

I am curious as to what Bernard was trying to get at, by starting this thread...

ERMD, I just recently saw an anti-Mormon ask why Moroni was an angel and not a "god".  Your reference to Alma made me wonder if that wasn't also Moroni's wish?

Or, perhaps, being an angel is a part of the progression that is supposed to last throughout eternity?

[zerinus]

Bernard Gui, on 12 March 2012 - 11:31 PM, said:

Mrs. Gui and I were discussing a book we read by a Baptist minister who was dead for 90 minutes and came back to life. The book describes his short stay in heaven and the effects the experience have had on his life. Mrs. Gui observed that his narrative parallels those of several Book of Mormon characters who were allowed to see within the veil. Then, as I was reading Alma 29, I came across these verses:

7 Why should I desire that I were an angel, that I could speak unto all the ends of the earth?
8 For behold, the Lord doth grant unto all nations, of their own nation and tongue, to teach his word, yea, in wisdom, all that he seeth fit that they should have; therefore we see that the Lord doth counsel in wisdom, according to that which is just and true. (Book of Mormon, Alma, Chapter 29)


What do you think?

Bernard

I think one needs to find a way of distinguishing between a divinely inspired vision or spiritual experience, with a divine message to communicate to the recipient; an NDE which does not appear to have a divine origin, and does not have a recognizable divine message to communicate to the recipient; and a hallucination. How do you tell which is which? Or do you think that they are all the same?

Bernard Gui, on 13 March 2012 - 01:31 AM, said:

Any comments about Alma's statement?

Bernard

Alma’s statement affirms that God has raised up good men in all nations, and given them the inspiration needed to teach those nations the amount of wisdom and truth they were able to receive to enable them to live a moral life in order to be approved of God. It is what the First Presidency has taught in these words: “the great religious leaders of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius, and the Reformers, as well as philosophers including Socrates, Plato, and others, received a portion of God’s light. Moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals.” (First Presidency statement, Feb. 15, 1978.) I am not sure how an NDE falls into that category, especially if it does not appear to impart a moral lesson that can enlighten a nation.

Bernard Gui, on 13 March 2012 - 06:26 AM, said:

No. I guess I need to be more explicit. "all he sees fit they should have."
What do you think that means?

Bernard

“All he sees fit they should have” means all the truth they are able to handle, or all that they need to live a moral life to be approved of God. That applies to all of us, including Mormons. We haven’t received all the truth that we could have received, but all that we are able to handle at the present time (see 3 Nephi 26:9–10).

[Avatar4321]

I know I've felt the way Alma did. I wish I could share the Gospel with everyone. I have problems doing it with just people near me though.