Quote Mining

[Storm Rider]

It has always bothered me that criics and anti-Mormons are so committed to quote mining. It has often come to mind that instead of responding directly to their position I should just provide other, positive quotes. I would be curious in reading some of your most favorite statements of Joseph Smith. I would be grateful for your contributions.

[Deborah]

I think for every quote that presents a point another quote can be found to counter it. On FB there is a topic under Brigham Young and an apostate group who uses his quotes to show how the church is in apostasy. Or so they think. And every time you refute them with logic or other quotes they just throw more quotes at you. They rarely explain anything, just quote mine to make their point, without knowing or caring about context.

So even if you find positive statements it wouldn't do any good if the plan is to use them to refute a point an apostate or anti-Mormon wants to make.

But if you want to get some statements start out with the RS/Priesthood manual on Joseph Smith.

[thesometimesaint]

Context is everything.

[LeSellers]

On FB there is a topic ...

What in the ever lovin' blue blazes is "FB"?

Abbreviations are useless if the reader does not know what they stand for.

Lehi

Edited February 24, 2012 by LeSellers

[altersteve]

What in the ever lovin' blue blazes is "FB"?

Abbreviations are useless if the reader does not know what they stand for.

Lehi

It stands for Facebook.

One of my favorite quotes from Joseph Smith is the one in my signature.

Edited February 24, 2012 by altersteve

[JAHS]

“Happiness is the object and design of our existence; and will be the end thereof, if we pursue the path that leads to it; and this path is virtue, uprightness, faithfulness, holiness, and keeping all the commandments of God.”

― Joseph Smith Jr.

“I teach them correct principles, and they govern themselves.” – Joseph Smith

“If men do not comprehend the character of God, they do not comprehend themselves.”

( History of the Church, 6:303. )

“When you feel pure intelligence flowing into you, it may give you sudden strokes of ideas, so that by noticing it, you may find it fulfilled the same day or soon; (i.e.) those things that were presented unto your minds by the Spirit of God, will come to pass; and thus by learning the Spirit of God and understanding it, you may grow into the principle of revelation, until you become perfect in Christ Jesus.”

( Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, sel. Joseph Fielding Smith [1976], 151.)

[seeker56]

Happiness is the object and design of our existence; and will be the end thereof, if we pursue the path that leads to it; and this path is virtue, uprightness, faithfulness, holiness, and keeping all the commandments of God.

― Joseph Smith Jr.

In all my years from age 8 to age 55, I heard and read this Happiness quote numerous times as part of gospel study and instruction. I don't recall ever being taught the context - that it was part of a letter Joseph Smith wrote to Nancy Rigdon attempting to justify/persuade her to be a polygamous wife. Isn't that what quote mining is? taking a quote out of context when the context would perhaps put different or additional meaning to the quote? I realize now that the letter is in the History of the Church Vol 5, discovered with the help of that oft-villified source of anti-mormonism, the internet.

[Storm Rider]

I enjoy collecting uplifting quotes. I thank each of you that shared some of your favorites. If anyone else has one from Jopseh Smith I hope you will share it. Cheers,

[Storm Rider]

I think for every quote that presents a point another quote can be found to counter it. On FB there is a topic under Brigham Young and an apostate group who uses his quotes to show how the church is in apostasy. Or so they think. And every time you refute them with logic or other quotes they just throw more quotes at you. They rarely explain anything, just quote mine to make their point, without knowing or caring about context.

So even if you find positive statements it wouldn't do any good if the plan is to use them to refute a point an apostate or anti-Mormon wants to make.

But if you want to get some statements start out with the RS/Priesthood manual on Joseph Smith.

There is something valuable about finding the quotes that are favorites for others. It is like sharing a treasure with others; they found it and now are willing to share it with others. It is a pearl that will be treasured because it is being sought.

If I had a list of quotes that others felt were favorites, the intent would only to be share. Convincing someone of the truth is the work of the Spirit; hopefully this may be a resource that plants seeds waiting to blossom.

[altersteve]

There is something valuable about finding the quotes that are favorites for others. It is like sharing a treasure with others; they found it and now are willing to share it with others. It is a pearl that will be treasured because it is being sought.

If I had a list of quotes that others felt were favorites, the intent would only to be share. Convincing someone of the truth is the work of the Spirit; hopefully this may be a resource that plants seeds waiting to blossom.

Such is one of the fundamental principles of the gospel: sharing. We share what we have with others, and God shares what He has with us. To me there is no more beautiful a concept than that.

Edited February 26, 2012 by altersteve

[Deborah]

There is something valuable about finding the quotes that are favorites for others.

I used to collect quotes. I had, and still have somewhere, a notebook where I would write quotes I had read in magazines, etc. I don't question the value of finding inspiring quotes, I just think it's fruitless to have a quote war with an anti-Mormon.

[Nevo]

There is a wonderful letter of Joseph Smith to the Twelve that was recently posted on the Joseph Smith Papers site.

It is well worth reading the whole thing, but here are a few excerpts that I particularly liked:

"Love is one of the leading characteristics of Deity, and ou[gh]t to be manifested by those who aspire to be the Sons of God. A man filled with the love of God, is not content with blessing his family alone, but ranges through the world, anxious to bless the whole of the human family. This has been your feelings and caused you to forego the pleasures of home, that you might be a blessing to others, who are candidates for immortality and who were but strangers to the principals of truth and for so doing I pray that Heavens choicest blessings may rest upon you."

"Beloved brethren, you must be aware in some measure of my feelings when I contemplate the great work which is now rolling on, and the relationship which I sustain to it; while it is extending to distant lands, and islands, and thousands are embracing it, I realize in some measure my responsibility and the need I have of support from above and wisdom from on high; that I may be able to teach this people, which have now become a great people, the principles of righteousness, and lead them agreeably to the will of heaven so that they may be perfected and prepared to meet the Lord Jesus Christ, when he shall appear. in great glory. Can I rely on your prayers to your heavenly Father in my behalf? and on the prayers of all my brethren & sisters in England? (whom having not seen yet I love) that I may be enabled to escape every stratagem of Satan, surmount every difficulty, and bring this people, to the enjoyment of those blessings which are reserved for the righteous. I ask this at your and their hands in the name of Jesus Christ."

"Let every selfish feeling be not only buried, but anihalated, and let love to God and man, predominate and reign triumphant in every mind, that their hearts may become like unto Enoch’s of old so that they may comprehend all things, present, past, and future, and “come behind in no gift waiting for the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ”. The work in which we are unitedly engaged in, is one of no ordinary kind, the enemies we have to contend against are subtle and well skilled in manuvering, it behoves us then to be on the alert, to concentrate our energies, and that the best feelings should exist in our midst, and then by the help of the Almighty we shall go on from victory to victory, and from conquest unto conquest, our evil passions will be subdued, our predjudices depart, an we shall find no room in our bosoms for hatred, vice will hide its deformed head, and we shall stand approved in the sight of heaven and be acknowledged “the Sons of God” Let us realize that we are not to live to ourselves but to God by so doing the greatest blessings will rest upon us both in time and in Eternity."

Edited February 26, 2012 by Nevo

[LeSellers]

Happiness is the object and design of our existence; and will be the end thereof, if we pursue the path that leads to it; and this path is virtue, uprightness, faithfulness, holiness, and keeping all the commandments of God.

― Joseph Smith Jr.

In all my years from age 8 to age 55, I heard and read this Happiness quote numerous times as part of gospel study and instruction. I don't recall ever being taught the context - that it was part of a letter Joseph Smith wrote to Nancy Rigdon attempting to justify/persuade her to be a polygamous wife. Isn't that what quote mining is? taking a quote out of context when the context would perhaps put different or additional meaning to the quote? I realize now that the letter is in the History of the Church Vol 5, discovered with the help of that oft-villified source of anti-mormonism, the internet.

Sarcasm duly noted.

There is a distinct difference between "quote mining" and "likening [quotations] unto ourselves".

The former takes a quotation distorts its meaning by wresting it from its context and pretends a meaning that contradicts the speaker's/writer's intent.

The latter uses the quotation to make a point the original author either actually meant in the native context or would have endorsed even beyond that context.

Joseph's teaching in this instance may (I haven't looked it up) have been exclusive to Plural Marriage, but its truth is universal. It is the purpose of our being to become happy. There is nothing Joseph ever said that would contradict this (supposed) extension of his original quote: it is quite consistent with the rest of his teachings.

Lehi

Edited February 27, 2012 by LeSellers

[Storm Rider]

I used to collect quotes. I had, and still have somewhere, a notebook where I would write quotes I had read in magazines, etc. I don't question the value of finding inspiring quotes, I just think it's fruitless to have a quote war with an anti-Mormon.

I agree. I miswrote my intentions above. The purpose in sharing positive quotes is to help others see the prophet in a more balanced way. He was very profound and he said things that could have only come from inspiration. Finding them, sharing them (not just with anti-Mormons) with others can uplift many and teach us all to be better disciples of Christ.

Regardless, thank you for correcting and refining my intent.

[cinepro]

It has always bothered me that criics and anti-Mormons are so committed to quote mining. It has often come to mind that instead of responding directly to their position I should just provide other, positive quotes. I would be curious in reading some of your most favorite statements of Joseph Smith. I would be grateful for your contributions.

If by "quote mining" you mean quotes or scriptures used out-of-context to change their meaning (and misapplied), it's probably best to counter by providing the missing context. In cases where I've inadvertantly used a misapplied quote, I've appreciated having greater understanding from the context (especially when the context can be hard to find).

It can also be interesting to look for quote mining in pro-LDS sources (and even LDS publications). Sometimes our zeal can even get the best of us.