Calm Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Honestly, I think it would be wise to take all teenagers to slaughterhouses so they can see the reality of the nicely packaged meat that gets placed on the dinner table. I am not promoting vegetarianism here, but I think people should have a greater appreciation of what they are eating for both the animals' sake as well as the workers who have to do such distasteful work all day long. Edited January 30, 2012 by calmoriah 1
LeSellers Posted January 30, 2012 Author Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Honestly, I think it would be wise to take all teenagers to slaughterhouses so they can see the reality of the nicely packaged meat that gets placed on the dinner table. I am not promoting vegetarianism here, but I think people should have a greater appreciation of what they are eating for both the animals' sake as well as the workers who have to do such distasteful work all day long.At the risk of being labeled "judgmental" (or just "mental", I don't know which), I'd like to see everyone who has ever eaten meat kill and butcher his own meat at least once a year. People who eat any kind of meat, but who refuse to kill and dress their own food, are moral cowards, in my opinion. They don't have to do all their own slaughtering, but they need to understand. It's more than how "distasteful" the work is, it's a matter of respecting the animal that becomes your dinner.Our children know what it takes to feed themselves: something had to die (even if it's a grain of wheat—there's scripture on that).Lehi Edited January 31, 2012 by LeSellers
thesometimesaint Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 calmoriah:All that I ask is that if we are going to eat animals is that when we do kill them that it be done quickly and humanely as possible.
Calm Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 calmoriah:All that I ask is that if we are going to eat animals is that when we do kill them that it be done quickly and humanely as possible.And I would hope that they have a comfortable life as well. We have a dairy farm that is squeezed in between two roads on the way to our house and it looks so filthy and crowded though obviously they have to clean them up well before they take them in for milking. They probably don't have enough brains to care about the environment enough as long as they are warm and fed, but I can't help but wonder.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 Honestly, I think it would be wise to take all teenagers to slaughterhouses so they can see the reality of the nicely packaged meat that gets placed on the dinner table. I am not promoting vegetarianism here, but I think people should have a greater appreciation of what they are eating for both the animals' sake as well as the workers who have to do such distasteful work all day long.Have you even seen the movie about Temple Gradin?
rpn Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 If what you are doing is trying to teach where food comes from, you don't need to go to a slaughterhouse. You can go to a butcher.
LeSellers Posted January 31, 2012 Author Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) If what you are doing is trying to teach where food comes from, you don't need to go to a slaughterhouse. You can go to a butcher.There's something almost sacred about slaughtering one's own food. No vicarious experience gives the closeness that makes this point.It's more than knowing where food comes from (although I disagree that going to a butchershop, if any still exists outside Safeway®, answers that question). It's understanding that, for me to live, something had to die.Lehi Edited January 31, 2012 by LeSellers 1
LeSellers Posted February 2, 2012 Author Posted February 2, 2012 We're making progress on the greenhouse. Last night we moved another couple of tons of dirt around the "basement" back into the "pit" we dug two years ago. I installed the form for the base of the solar panel support and the conduit for the electrical cables. We had to quit when it got so dark we couldn't safely use shovels and picks.It was cold, too. We're scheduled to have up to 18" of snow tonight and tomorrow, so that may be the last work we do out there for a week or so until it melts. Still, I hope to have the greenhouse itself on the foundation by the middle of the month. Then we can start to waterproof the fish tank, install the grow beds, hang the rabbit hutches and invent, create, and install the worm/larvae bins.The rabbits themselves are reproducing nicely. We're expecting to wake up in the morning to another 6~8 bunnies. We should be able to slaughter the first three in two weeks, just as their siblings are ready to take away from their mother. We will be harvesting (and buying replacements for) a dozen tilapia in a week, too.'Xciting times in Eden.Lehi 1
LeSellers Posted February 2, 2012 Author Posted February 2, 2012 How large is the fish tank?About 9½ feet square and 2½ ft deep.Lehi
Calm Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 Hmmm.....since I have found that warm water swimming/aerobics is the ideal exercise for my movement disorder, there must be some way to come up with a combo fish tank/swimming pool to really make this an efficient effort, just making it about a foot deeper would do.
LeSellers Posted February 2, 2012 Author Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Hmmm.....since I have found that warm water swimming/aerobics is the ideal exercise for my movement disorder, there must be some way to come up with a combo fish tank/swimming pool to really make this an efficient effort, just making it about a foot deeper would do. We limited it because there is, essentially, a 1:1 ratio between the volume of water and that of the grow beds. The bacteria in the grow beds must be sufficient to convert the amonia from the fish into nitrites and then nitrates for the plants (making the water habitable again for the fish).If you don't have the concentration of fish we will have, your plan could work. However, tilapia are "thorny" fish. Their fins are sharp, and while they probably would never attack you, you could easily brush against one and get a few serious scratches. They also jump. One hit me in the face while trying to get out of our experimental tank. No harm, but a major startle. My Jacquie, not yet used to catching fish flopping on the floor, took a long time to grab it and return it to the tank. I was still fighting the pump I was trying to clean.Lehi Edited February 2, 2012 by LeSellers
Calm Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 Honestly, if I had the energy to create and care for such a project, I wouldn't need a swimming pool in my backyard. As it is, I can only dream about having either.
ERayR Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) If what you are doing is trying to teach where food comes from, you don't need to go to a slaughterhouse. You can go to a butcher.Not the same. A butcher mearly cuts up the carcasses. It is clean and sterile. Dead carcases come in and cut up steaks go out. In the slaughterhouse the killing is done the life is taken so that our lives may be given sustenance. One can never get the reverence for the process from the sterile butcher shop that can be gotten from a slaughter house kill floor or from killing your own animals. Edited February 3, 2012 by ERayR
Matthew J. Tandy Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 Lehi,So your post has led me to reading a ton about aquaponics for the last week. In doing so, I was reading about fish choices. Trout vs Tilapia vs Catfish, etc. It appears the pros of tilapia are that they of course are easy to care for and breed easily. The downside is that they apparently are the least nutritious of the choices and have a Omega fatty acid ratio that removes a lot of the benefit of eating fish. Have you read about this? If so, do you plan on trying other fish species later? Just curious.Also, what are you using to contain the fish? Is it glass, a "tote" container type thing that's been reinforced externally, or something else? Just trying to get ideas!
ERayR Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 Lehi,So your post has led me to reading a ton about aquaponics for the last week. In doing so, I was reading about fish choices. Trout vs Tilapia vs Catfish, etc. It appears the pros of tilapia are that they of course are easy to care for and breed easily. The downside is that they apparently are the least nutritious of the choices and have a Omega fatty acid ratio that removes a lot of the benefit of eating fish. Have you read about this? If so, do you plan on trying other fish species later? Just curious.Also, what are you using to contain the fish? Is it glass, a "tote" container type thing that's been reinforced externally, or something else? Just trying to get ideas!I would think that some part of the decision as to which to raise would be whether or not the taste was palatable to you. I dont happen to be overly fond of trout or catfish. I can eat them occasionally but to raise them and make them a steady menu item would not work for me. However I don't have the means nor the physical ability to raise any at this time. My comment was meant only to give you something to think about.
Matthew J. Tandy Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 ERayR,I suppose that's true. I don't know if I've ever had tilapia, so I can't say what my preference is. I do quite like trout. If large-mouth Bass was possible, I would go for that.:-)
thesometimesaint Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 Tilapia is a bottom feeder like catfish. Some people claim it tastes muddy. But raised in clean water eliminates much of that taste.
LeSellers Posted February 3, 2012 Author Posted February 3, 2012 Tilapia is a bottom feeder like catfish. Some people claim it tastes muddy. But raised in clean water eliminates much of that taste.Ours sure are not bottom feeders.The taste is rather bland: it's a white fish, not too much fat (but what it has is omega-3).Lehi
Matthew J. Tandy Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 ...not too much fat (but what it has is omega-3).LehiActually, that was the problem I read about them. Lower in Omega-3, higher in Omega-6, which is not a good ratio:http://www.genesmart.com/pages/tilapia_omega_3_nutrition/84.phpHowever, it appears the problem can be overcome in a good aquoponics system, as it states the reason for the problem thus:The problem with tilapia nutrition is what the fish are eating. Tilapia omega 3 Levels are so low because Tilapia are incredibly hardy, which means that you can feed them just about anything as a fat source. What we’re feeding them is corn oil, or soy, or whatever the cheapest commodity is at the time, packed with short-chain omega 6 fats that they convert to the dangerous long-chain omega-6 fats (AA). Normally herbivore fish eat algae, which contain medium-chain omega 3 fats that they convert to the very beneficial long chain omega 3s including EPA and DHA. Carnivorous fish then eat those fish as their source of omega 3 fats. Humans eat both types of fish.So, perhaps feeding them algae, the black soldier fly larva, etc, will set things more in there natural order.
LeSellers Posted February 3, 2012 Author Posted February 3, 2012 perhaps feeding them algae, the black soldier fly larva, etc, will set things more in there natural order.Yes, as far as we can tell, that's the right information. As of yet, we have not, personally, fed our fish anything but commercial (Matsua®) feed. However, the information (not on line) we have suggests that the lipid ratios change with their diet, and what we plan on feeding will be more "natural" than the stuff people purchase.Lehi
LeSellers Posted February 3, 2012 Author Posted February 3, 2012 For those interested in aquaponics (a subset of my own ecoponics), a good resource is Aquaponics Community.Lehi
Matthew J. Tandy Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 Lehi,Thanks for all the replies. Still looking for one more item:Also, what are you using to contain the fish? Is it glass, a "tote" container type thing that's been reinforced externally, or something else? Just trying to get ideas!I am trying to get ideas, as I want to do something in my garage later this year.
ERayR Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 ERayR,I suppose that's true. I don't know if I've ever had tilapia, so I can't say what my preference is. I do quite like trout. If large-mouth Bass was possible, I would go for that.:-)Tilapia is available in the grocery stores and usually for a reasonable price. Buy some and try it. I don't like it quite as good as the whitefish(cod and halibut) but it is my choice over trout.And no it does not taste muddy.
LeSellers Posted February 3, 2012 Author Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) what are you using to contain the fish? Is it glass, a "tote" container type thing that's been reinforced externally, or something else?The greenhouse ecoponics system includes a "basement" made of concrete block (lots of iron and concrete—the thing is 7' deep in clay).The experimental aquaponics system uses 55 gallon Pepsi® drums I got from the bottling plant. We used most of them for water storage, but five form the grow beds and fish tanks for the system in our basement. All lie horizonally in a frame I built using cull 2x4s from Lowe's.There are five grow beds (half drums) and two, linked tanks, each with its own pump. The link is a ¾" pipe running between the bung holes of the two drums so the water levels stay more-or-less even. It also allows us to use a single heater or pump, although we have two of each.The greatest single cost was for the Hydrocorels® expanded clay aggregate we use for the growing medium. It takes two 45 litre bags for each grow bed. Even with two pumps and a lot of lights, the $300 we spent at the hydroponics store (where we are outnumbered 10:1 by marijuana growers) overweighed the rest of the project by a hundred bucks or so. For the greenhouse ecoponics system, that number will be $3,000.I'm still trying to get photos on line to show you what we're doing. I'm a bit slow and more than a bit harrassed by all the work that goes into building the greenhouse model. Maybe now with the snow on the ground, I'll have the time to make that happen—but please don't hold your breath.Lehi Edited February 3, 2012 by LeSellers
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