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inquiringmind

Emma Smith

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I recently read the following quote from Brigham Young.

Joseph used to say that he would have her (Emma Smith) hereafter, IF HE HAD TO GO TO HELL FOR HER, AND HE WILL HAVE TO GO TO HELL FOR HER AS SURE AS HE EVER GETS HER."

(Journal of Discourses, Volume 17, page 159)

I had questions about Emma a long time ago, and I can't find the thread now, but I think someone said that there was reason to believe she will inherit a celestial kingdom, and be exalted with Joseph in the hereafter.

There was a quote given (perhaps from Joseph himself), and I'd like to find it.

I'd like to believe that Brigham was mistaken here.

Can anyone help?

Edited by inquiringmind

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On her deathbed, Emma had a vision of both Joseph and Christ, recorded by her children and nurse.

The account was given in the Ensign, written by one of the first of her descendants to join the church.

http://lds.org/ensig...-smith?lang=eng

Gracia Jones has a remarkable story in her own right.

Here's the part that is relevant:

A Promise Fulfilled

Emma lived almost thirty-five years after the martyrdom of her Prophet-husband. She died 30 April 1879 in her seventy-fifth year. In her last years she was greatly loved, and in the last hours of her life she was attended by her family: Louis Bidamon, Julia, Joseph III, 26 and Alexander. According to Alexander, Emma seemed to sink away, but then she raised up and stretched out her hand, calling, “Joseph! Joseph!” Falling back on Alexander’s arm, she clasped her hands on her bosom, and her spirit was gone. Both Alexander and Joseph thought she was calling for her son Joseph, but later, Alexander learned more about the incident. Sister Elizabeth Revel, Emma’s nurse, explained that a few days earlier Emma had told her that Joseph came to her in a vision and said, “Emma, come with me, it is time for you to come with me.” “As Emma related it, she said, ‘I put on my bonnet and my shawl and went with him; I did not think that it was anything unusual. I went with him into a mansion, and he showed me through the different apartments of that beautiful mansion.’ And one room was the nursery. In that nursery was a babe in the cradle. She said, ‘I knew my babe, my Don Carlos that was taken from me.’ She sprang forward, caught the child up in her arms, and wept with joy over the child. When Emma recovered herself sufficient she turned to Joseph and said, ‘Joseph, where are the rest of my children.’ He said to her, ‘Emma, be patient and you shall have all of your children.’ Then she saw standing by his side a personage of light, even the Lord Jesus Christ.” 27

Finding this testimony reminded me how precious each soul is in the sight of our Savior, whose compassion and power to save is beyond all comprehension. All of us make mistakes and are in need of repentance. Whenever we withdraw from the fellowship of the Saints and cease to partake of the sacrament on a regular basis, we tend to lose our way and become subject to misunderstanding—especially if our course has been set by real or imagined injury to our feelings, or pride. This could happen to any of us, including my dear great-great-grandmother.

Edited by Sevenbak

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The "promise" that Gracia seems to be speaking of being fulfilled is that of Emma's patriarchal blessing, in which she was told she would see the Savior.

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Thank you.

Could you tell me more about her patriarchal blessing?

I think that was the quote I was given in the earlier thread I was trying to find.

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I don't think this is the whole thing, but it speaks to the issue.

Emma Hale Smith’s patriarchal blessing - given on 9 December 1834 by Church Patriarch, and her father-in-law, Joseph Smith, Sr.

“Emma … thou art blessed of the Lord, for thy faithfulness and truth, thou shalt be blessed with thy husband, and rejoice in the glory which shall come upon him. Thy soul has been afflicted because of the wickedness of men in seeking the destruction of thy companion, and thy whole soul has been drawn out in prayer for his deliverance; rejoice, for the Lord thy God has heard thy supplication.

Thou hast grieved for the hardness of the hearts of thy father’s house, and thou hast longed for their salvation. The Lord will have respect to thy cries, and by his judgments he will cause some of them to see their folly and repent of their sins; but it will be by affliction that they will be saved. Thou shalt see many days, yea, the Lord will spare thee till thou art satisfied, for thou shalt see thy Redeemer. Thy heart shall rejoice in the great work of the Lord, and no one shall take thy rejoicing from thee.

Thou shalt ever remember the great condescension of thy God in permitting thee to accompany my son [Joseph] when the angel delivered the record of the Nephites to his care … Thou shalt be blessed with understanding, and have power to instruct thy sex, teach thy family righteousness, and thy little ones the way of life, and the holy angels shall watch over thee and thou shalt be saved in the kingdom of God, even so, Amen.” (Patriarchal Blessing Book No. 1, LDS Archives)

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a related question kind of but when do you think Emma Smith first knew about the Book of Mormon? Something I have been wondering about

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a related question kind of but when do you think Emma Smith first knew about the Book of Mormon? Something I have been wondering about

I imagine that it would have one of the first things he told her about when he was courting her. Then again, he wasn't always completely honest with her about the polygamy thing.

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Thank you Sevenbak.

I found this interesting.

Black's book, "Emma Smith: An Elect Lady," was published in 2007. The title of her lecture Thursday was the same, but with a question mark added at the end.

Her conclusion removed that question mark.

First, Black said, Emma Smith was sealed to Joseph Smith, "and sealing powers are real." (Latter-day Saints believe marriages sealed in temples are eternal if the spouses are faithful.) Second, Emma Smith's patriarchal blessing leaves no room for questions.

"It's so fascinating to me," Black said of the blessing, delivered by her father-in-law and the church's first patriarch, Joseph Smith Sr. "There are no ifs. And when the blessing ends, it ends with, 'You will be saved in the kingdom of heaven, even so, amen.' "

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705382488/Was-Emma-Smith-an-elect-lady.html

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a related question kind of but when do you think Emma Smith first knew about the Book of Mormon? Something I have been wondering about

No later than Sep 1827 when she went with Joseph to the New York Hill Cumorah.

But by then she'd been married to Joseph for eight months, and the subject doubtless came up by the time they eloped to South Bainbridge (Afton). I'd guess much earlier, since she would not have agreed to marry him without understanding the basis for all of the talk surrounding her future-husband and boarder-in-her-father's-home. He lived with her family for nearly two years, and his notoriety would pretty well have assured that she knew something about the Book of Mormon in 1825.

Lehi

Edited by LeSellers

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There certainly wasn't any love lost between Brigham and Emma.

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There certainly wasn't any love lost between Brigham and Emma.

This, it's important to note that Brigham Young had concerns that support of Emma would lead to a break in the Church. He disliked Lucy Smith's biography of Joseph for the same reason.

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There certainly wasn't any love lost between Brigham and Emma.
This, it's important to note that Brigham Young had concerns that support of Emma would lead to a break in the Church. He disliked Lucy Smith's biography of Joseph for the same reason.

For Emma's part, I believe she didn't like that Brigham's view of stewardship. He felt that he was responsible for taking care of all of Joseph's business, including protecting, by marriage, his wives. Emma was never converted to the Principle of Plural Marriage, and did not want to be one of Brigham's wives.

Emma, we should note, chose instead to marry Charles Bidamon whose dalliance with Emma's servant produced a child that she, Emma,took care of for many years.

In addition, Emma was dedicated to caring for Lucy Mack Smith, her mother-in-law, who was too frail to make the trek to Deseret. (She'd lost all but two of her sons to mobs, and her husband, as well. She was alone but for Emma, and simply could not make the trip.) Emma's reluctance to go, and Lucy's inability mutually fed on each other. Brigham did offer to transport Lucy Mack, but since Emma wasn't prepared to accompany her, she declined.

As to Joseph's having to go to hell to get Emma, there are several ways this could be interpreted, not the last of which might involve a rigorous understanding of what "hell" meant when each prophet made his statement.

I don't have the luxury of my library here, so I can't look them up, but "hell" does not always mean Satan's empire. In fact, it most often means nothing more than "the grave". So, If Brigham was trying to make the point that men will resurrect their wives, Joseph's going to hell to get Emma would be nothing more than what any Priesthood holder will do for his wife or children. But, as i said, this is pure speculation, and based on very little.

On the other hand, Emma was in apostasy, having rejected the authority of the Twelve, and all apostates will have to spend some time repenting (in this life or the next) before their Celestial blessings can be effectuated, if at all. So, Emma would be going to Peter's Spirit Prison and Joseph would go there and exercise the power of her sealing to him so she could (as more couples will do than recognize it) enjoy their shared status in the Kingdom.

Lehi

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I have a soft spot in my heart for Emma. She was a brave, and loving wife who had literally everything taken away fom her including her husband and children. She'd finally had enough.

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I have a soft spot in my heart for Emma. She was a brave, and loving wife who had literally everything taken away fom her including her husband and children.

One of our granddaughters is named after her for precisely that reason.

Lehi

P.S.: Not "everything". She retained ownership of the Mansion House and at least one farm near Nauvoo. But that's hardly reasonable compensation for the murder of her husband. LS

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Emma was never an apostate and she never left the church. The church left her. I have no doubt Brigham Young thought that Emma would go to hell. He called her a "damnable liar", I think to her own sons. They were both forces of nature, and it's no wonder there was conflict between them.

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Emma was never an apostate and she never left the church. The church left her.

The Church was driven out of Nauvoo. She had the choice and chose to stay.

She rejected the Priesthood and the leadership of The Church of Jesus Christ.

She did not raise her family to believe even in the Book of Mormon.

She may not have been a "bitter apostate", but an apostate she was.

I have no doubt Brigham Young thought that Emma would go to hell. He called her a "damnable liar", I think to her own sons.

Given the subject and object of her lies, he was probably justified.

Lehi

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The Church was driven out of Nauvoo. She had the choice and chose to stay.

She rejected the Priesthood and the leadership of The Church of Jesus Christ.

She did not raise her family to believe even in the Book of Mormon.

She may not have been a "bitter apostate", but an apostate she was.

Given the subject and object of her lies, he was probably justified.

Lehi

There was no clearly established order of succession. As far as Emma was concerned, her son was just as good of a candidate for leadership as Brigham Young. You can't judge her by modern standards of apostasy--in fact you probably shouldn't judge her at all. Emma was no more a "damnable liar" than Brigham Young was. "Truth" becomes relative, even to normally honest people in some circumstances. To Emma's sensibilities, Joseph Smith did not have any other wives because she was his only legal wife. In her mind, she was not lying--in much the same way Brigham Young was not lying when he said the Lord demands the death penalty for interracial marriage. It was obviously not a true statement, but he believed it was true. Brigham Young treated Emma Smith very badly, and fortunately, she did not become his doormat. I admire her.

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There was no clearly established order of succession. As far as Emma was concerned, her son was just as good of a candidate for leadership as Brigham Young. You can't judge her by modern standards of apostasy--in fact you probably shouldn't judge her at all. Emma was no more a "damnable liar" than Brigham Young was. "Truth" becomes relative, even to normally honest people in some circumstances. To Emma's sensibilities, Joseph Smith did not have any other wives because she was his only legal wife. In her mind, she was not lying--in much the same way Brigham Young was not lying when he said the Lord demands the death penalty for interracial marriage. It was obviously not a true statement, but he believed it was true. Brigham Young treated Emma Smith very badly, and fortunately, she did not become his doormat. I admire her.

hear hear!

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There was no clearly established order of succession. As far as Emma was concerned, her son was just as good of a candidate for leadership as Brigham Young. You can't judge her by modern standards of apostasy--in fact you probably shouldn't judge her at all. Emma was no more a "damnable liar" than Brigham Young was. "Truth" becomes relative, even to normally honest people in some circumstances. To Emma's sensibilities, Joseph Smith did not have any other wives because she was his only legal wife. In her mind, she was not lying--in much the same way Brigham Young was not lying when he said the Lord demands the death penalty for interracial marriage. It was obviously not a true statement, but he believed it was true. Brigham Young treated Emma Smith very badly, and fortunately, she did not become his doormat. I admire her.

I have often wondered about Emma. You echo some of those thoughts. It also seems that she lived an exemplary life after the death of Joseph also. There is none thing for sure, none of us have the necessary knowledge to pass judgement upon her. She went through trials and tribulations that most cannot even fathom. I also have a warm spot for her in my heart.

Glenn

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Emma and Joseph were both among those who had the Second Anointing --- making their calling and election sure --- in the 1840's. (There is a list of those who received in at the time. Two lists, if I recall correctly.) Of course she will be in the celestial kingdom with Joseph.

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Thank you for the story of her death bed vision.

Same here. I had never read that before. Thank you. :)

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You are welcome. I only knew about the article after I had done a couple of interviews with Gracia. Her conversion story is amazing, I think it's included in the article.

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I have a soft spot in my heart for Emma. She was a brave, and loving wife who had literally everything taken away fom her including her husband and children. She'd finally had enough.

This is true. And we also need to remember her reaction to JS's polgamy. This is never easy for a wife to accept. However, through all the pain, she remained faithful to her husband's calling as prophet. She never denied his calling. I remember that one reason she did not want anything to do with the move outwest and with the church was because as she said, she experienced too much pain already. She was a brave woman and yet, she was human.

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Emma was never an apostate and she never left the church. The church left her. I have no doubt Brigham Young thought that Emma would go to hell. He called her a "damnable liar", I think to her own sons. They were both forces of nature, and it's no wonder there was conflict between them.

The rumor mill did not help either. It became a he said, she said as the years passed. I believe the problem started with the settlement she wanted from the church over property. I also believe that she did not like Brigham and polygamy and she knew where the lds church was heading over it: to the west.

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