Is The Earth Only 7,000 Years Old?

[inquiringmind]

I was reading D&C 77 last night.

It's presented as a question and answer session between Joseph and Deity.

Does this mean the young earth creationists are right?

Is the earth only 7,000 years old?

Verse 6

Q. What are we to understand by the book which John saw, which was sealed on the back with seven seals?

A. We are to understand that it contains the revealed will, mysteries, and works of God; the hidden things of His economy concerning this earth during the seven thousand years of it's continuance, or it's temporal existence.

What's meant by "it's continuance, or it's temporal existence"? (The earth's temporal existence, or the economy's temporal existence?)

If it doesn't refer to the earth itself (but only the economy, or plan), does that mean that the human race has only been here for seven thousand years?

Also, what does this mean.

Verse 10

Q. What time are the things spoken of in this chapter to be accomplished?

A. They are to be accomplished in the sixth thousand years, or the opening of the sixth seal.

Does that mean that the 144, 000 were sealed, and the great multitude came out of the great tribulation, before the turn of the last century?

I've been scratching my head here.

Any thoughts?

Edited December 30, 2011 by inquiringmind

[katherine the great]

Perhaps the six thousand years of the earth's temporal existence refers to the six thousand years that the earth and mankind have been under covenant to serve the Lord. According to science, the earth is approximately four and a half billion years old and humans or human like beings of our species have been here close to two hundred thousand years. Maybe Adam lived at the six thousand ya mark--definitely after the hunter/gatherer phase and maybe during the early days of farming. I'm sure I've heard an explanation of the 144,000 but I can't remember what it was. It seems like it had something to do with high priests but I really can't remember.

[inquiringmind]

A "great multitude" (verse 9.), who "have come out of the great tribulation" (verse 14), are also mentioned in chapter seven.

Does this mean the great tribulation ended before the turn of the last century?

Is it possible the great tribulation was in the twentieth century?

(Did any LDS perish in the Nazi holocaust, Stalinist Russia, or Maoist China?)

Edited December 30, 2011 by inquiringmind

[Cobalt-70]

I was reading D&C 77 last night.

It's presented as a question and answer session between Joseph and Deity.

Does this mean the young earth creationists are right?

Is the earth only 7,000 years old?

Not that it matters much, but D&C 77 is not actually presented as a Q&A between Smith and God. The revelation refers to "God" in the third person. Both the questions and the answers are in the voice of Joseph Smith.

[Cobalt-70]

A "great multitude" (verse 9.), who "have come out of the great tribulation" (verse 14), are also mentioned in chapter seven.

Does this mean the great tribulation ended before the turn of the last century?

Is it possible the great tribulation was in the twentieth century?

(Did any LDS perish in the Nazi holocaust, Stalinist Russia, or Maoist China?)

This challenges all the people I remember back in the 20th century who though that the Millennium was going to start around 2000 AD, preceded by a nuclear war. If we take D&C 77 seriously, the Tribulation is now over. If that's how we want to interpret it, there are plenty of things in the period between 1000 AD and 2000 AD that could count as Armageddon-quality catastrophes, such as the Black Death, Mongolian holocaust, and the two World Wars.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Cobalt-70

[inquiringmind]

...If we take D&C 77 seriously, the Tribulation is now over...

That's how it reads to me, but is that the only way to take it seriously?

[altersteve]

This challenges all the people I remember back in the 20th century who though that the Millennium was going to start around 2000 AD, preceded by a nuclear war. If we take D&C 77 seriously, the Tribulation is now over. If that's how we want to interpret it, there are plenty of things in the period between 1000 AD and 2000 AD that could count as Armageddon-quality catastrophes, such as the Black Death, Mongolian holocaust, and the two World Wars.

Unless you believe the tribulation is still happening. I see nothing in D&C 77 or any other scripture that suggests it's over or hasn't started yet.

[Bond...James Bond]

The earth is around 4.5 billion years old.

[Freedom]

The earth is around 4.5 billion years old.

The earth is old. Very old. And as a result my testimony is shaken but not stirred.

That sounded so much more funny when I said it in my head.

[Bond...James Bond]

The earth is old. Very old. And as a result my testimony is shaken but not stirred.

That sounded so much more funny when I said it in my head.

The important thing is you went with the joke. Me likee!

[inquiringmind]

Unless you believe the tribulation is still happening. I see nothing in D&C 77 or any other scripture that suggests it's over or hasn't started yet.

In Revelation Chapter 7, John saw a great multitude that he was told had come through the great tribulation.

In D&C 77 Joseph asks "what time are the things spoken of in this chapter (Rev. Ch. 7) to be accomplished?"

His answer is "They are to be accomplished in the sixth thousand years, or the opening of the sixth seal."

Doesn't that imply that the tribulation (and the coming out of the great multitude) have been accomplished (and that the tribulation is over)?

Edited December 30, 2011 by inquiringmind

[altersteve]

In Revelation Chapter 7, John saw a great multitude that he was told had come through the great tribulation.

In D&C 77 Joseph asks "what time are the things spoken of in this chapter (Rev. Ch. 7) to be accomplished?"

His answer is "They are to be accomplished in the sixth thousand years, or the opening of the sixth seal."

Doesn't that imply that the tribulation (and the coming out of the great multitude) have been accomplished (and that the tribulation is over)?

Good question. I haven't really studied the Book of Revelation or the topics it deals with a whole lot, so I'll have to think some more about this.

[katherine the great]

The earth is old. Very old. And as a result my testimony is shaken but not stirred.

That sounded so much more funny when I said it in my head.

I thought it was funny...

[Cobalt-70]

Unless you believe the tribulation is still happening. I see nothing in D&C 77 or any other scripture that suggests it's over or hasn't started yet.

It's easy to fall into the Evangelical trap of referring to "the Tribulation." JS-Matthew seems to interpret Matthew 24 according to a "two tribulation" theory--one when Jerusalem was destroyed, and another in the last days. Plus, Revelation refers to the "day of [God's] wrath in the sixth seal (Rev. 6), followed by an ascending angel, still in the sixth seal telling the four destroying angels to temporarily cease and desist their course of destruction (Rev. 7)--D&C 77 says the ascending angel is "Elias," which Smith said appeared in 1836 in the Kirtland temple--while those who "came out of great tribulation" were sealed. Then in Rev. 8, in the seventh seal, the seven angels sound their trumpets and cause bad stuff to rain down from heaven. So in that case, you could say that there were tribulations from 1000 AD to 1836, then a lull, and then after the Nauvoo temple was built and people were "sealed," the tribulations picked up again (presumably at the American Civil War, if D&C 87 is shoehorned into the analysis).

But I don't think that Joseph Smith was ever so rigid about any precise millennial timeline. Whatever Joseph Smith believed in 1832 when he wrote D&C 77, in 1843 he believed that the Second Coming could hypothetically have occurred by 1890-91 (D&C 130:15).

Edited December 30, 2011 by Cobalt-70

[Rob Osborn]

Temporal refers to time or the process of "age"- how long it has been ticking away for this earth. So, according tot he scripture this earth since the creation is about 6,000 years old give or take a few hundred years.

[inquiringmind]

It's easy to fall into the Evangelical trap of referring to "the Tribulation." JS-Matthew seems to interpret Matthew 24 according to a "two tribulation" theory--one when Jerusalem was destroyed, and another in the last days. Plus, Revelation refers to the "day of [God's] wrath in the sixth seal (Rev. 6), followed by an ascending angel, still in the sixth seal telling the four destroying angels to temporarily cease and desist their course of destruction (Rev. 7)--D&C 77 says the ascending angel is "Elias," which Smith said appeared in 1836 in the Kirtland temple--while those who "came out of great tribulation" were sealed. Then in Rev. 8, in the seventh seal, the seven angels sound their trumpets and cause bad stuff to rain down from heaven. So in that case, you could say that there were tribulations from 1000 AD to 1836, then a lull, and then after the Nauvoo temple was built and people were "sealed," the tribulations picked up again (presumably at the American Civil War, if D&C 87 is shoehorned into the analysis).

But I don't think that Joseph Smith was ever so rigid about any precise millennial timeline. Whatever Joseph Smith believed in 1832 when he wrote D&C 77, in 1843 he believed that the Second Coming could hypothetically have occurred by 1890-91 (D&C 130:15).

Two questions.

1.) Would your analysis mean that the tribulations (or the possibility of being sealed after "coming out" of great tribulation) ended in the twentieth century?

2.) Is it a matter of what "Joseph Smith believed in 1832 when he wrote D&C 77," or does the fact that this passage has been canonized make it the word of God?

Edited December 30, 2011 by inquiringmind

[Freedom]

In Revelation Chapter 7, John saw a great multitude that he was told had come through the great tribulation.

In D&C 77 Joseph asks "what time are the things spoken of in this chapter (Rev. Ch. 7) to be accomplished?"

His answer is "They are to be accomplished in the sixth thousand years, or the opening of the sixth seal."

Doesn't that imply that the tribulation (and the coming out of the great multitude) have been accomplished (and that the tribulation is over)?

There are many interpretations of these passages, or should I say, attempts to reconcile the wording. One is that 'the sixth thousand years = the opening of the sixth seal'. In other words, the opening of the sixth seal is not the beginning of the six thousand years, but the six thousand years themselves. Just as when you open a box, all the items are there before you. Thus, these events will occur during the time period of the sixth seal. Nevertheless, the events referred to with the opening of the 6th seal are in the previous verse, or the angel ascending from the east. This could refer to the return of the sealing power and temple ordinances. The seventh seal is when the tribulation occurs.

[Freedom]

1.) Would your analysis mean that the tribulations (or the possibility of being sealed after "coming out" of great tribulation) ended in the twentieth century?

I would say that they have yet to occur. They will occur with the opening of the seventh seal.

[thesometimesaint]

Yes there were Saints on both sides in WW2.

In the last one hundred years there has been plenty of tribulation.

http://joshspector.com/2011/12/29/100-years-of-history-in-10-minutes/

[BCSpace]

Does this mean the young earth creationists are right?

Is the earth only 7,000 years old?

No. Official LDS doctrine expressly allows for a much older earth. First, the doctrine regarding D&C 77 from the D&C Student Manual:

D&C 77:6–7 . Why Was the Book Sealed That John Saw?

“‘The book which John saw’ represented the real history of the world—what the eye of God has seen, what the recording angel has written; and the seven thousand years, corresponding to the seven seals of the Apocalyptic volume, are as seven great days during which Mother Earth will fulfill her mortal mission, laboring six days and resting upon the seventh, her period of sanctification. These seven days do not include the period of our planet’s creation and preparation as a dwelling place for man. They are limited to Earth’s ‘temporal existence,’ that is, to Time, considered as distinct from Eternity.” (Whitney, Saturday Night Thoughts, p. 11.)

http://institute.lds.org/manuals/doctrine-and-covenants-institute-student-manual/dc-in-071-77.asp

Next, from the OT Student Manual:

(2-3) How Old Is the Earth?

While it is interesting to note these various theories, officially the Church has not taken a stand on the age of the earth. For reasons best known to Himself, the Lord has not yet seen fit to formally reveal the details of the Creation. Therefore, while Latter-day Saints are commanded to learn truth from many different fields of study (see D&C 88:77–79 ), an attempt to establish any theory as the official position of the Church is not justifiable.

http://institute.lds.org/manuals/old-testament-institute-student-manual-1/ot-in1-02-gen-a-2.asp

[Rob Osborn]

The age of the earth since the fall- since things started dying (hence the word "temporal"), is about 6,000 years.

[Honorentheos]

If one begins with a timeline that starts around 4000 BCE, one is opening the book of human civilization with major cities present and populated. One has to ignore evidence for human civilization in many places around the world that predate 4000 BCE, and even more importantly, one has to explain evidence for death (i.e. - a post-Fall condition) throughout the world in the archaeological record including humans or proto-human remains.

I don't think the 6,000 year timeline is compatible with the evidence. Even if it means post-Garden of Eden and not actual age of the earth itself. Estimates of human populations at this time (4000 BCE) are over 5 million people. One really has to re-imagine the world post-Eden to formulate something that works.

[seriously honestly]

The age of the earth since the fall- since things started dying (hence the word "temporal"), is about 6,000 years.

Where do dinosaurs fit in?

[thesometimesaint]

seriously honestly:

http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Earth

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I was reading D&C 77 last night.

It's presented as a question and answer session between Joseph and Deity.

Does this mean the young earth creationists are right?

Is the earth only 7,000 years old?

Possibly from the "Fall of Adam"...if they were truly immortal as told in scriptures they could have lived for 1.000.000's of years in the Garden of Eden.