34 replies to this topic

[Peppermint Patty]

http://mormonchannel...v=1289877050001

The link above goes to a really brief video clip on Mormon.org, wherein Elder Russel M. Nelson gives some of the most gentle, sweet and encouraging counsel I have ever heard. It seems to me like there has been an organic evolution in the Church's leadership where there is less focus and demand for personal perfection RIGHT NOW and more focus on faith that Christ will more than make up the difference in any area where we are lacking as long as are willing to keep on trying.

Growing up in the Church, it seemed like personal perfection or damnation seemed to be the clarion call. Perhaps it was for a reason at that point in the Church's history. Now, however, it seems that the good news of the Gospel, that imperfect persons and those who are struggling and will continue to struggle can be saved and perfected in Christ, seems to be the emphasis.

Is it just me? Or, has anyone else perceived this, too?   I think I began to notice a difference around 2007, but maybe that was only because I wasn't really active then, and in need of repentence, myself.  I wonder when this all began to evolve?  Any ideas?

Watch the clip! You'll be glad you did.

[cinepro]

I've noticed the same thing, but to me it seemed to be more of an intelligently-designed development.

[Rivers]

cinepro, on 21 December 2011 - 08:42 PM, said:

I've noticed the same thing, but to me it seemed to be more of an intelligently-designed development.

No.  Something that is designed can't develop.  Or can it?

Anyway, this video was a breath of fresh air for me.  Elder Nelson sounded so much more personal than he does in general conference talks.
This is something I think every member of the church needs to watch.  I think it encompasses a lot of what being a mormon is all about.

[Kenngo1969]

I like this one, too:

[Rivers]

Kenngo1969, on 21 December 2011 - 10:45 PM, said:

I like this one, too:

So did the family ever finish the trip?

[why me]

Peppermint Patty, on 21 December 2011 - 07:33 PM, said:

Growing up in the Church, it seemed like personal perfection or damnation seemed to be the clarion call. Perhaps it was for a reason at that point in the Church's history. Now, however, it seems that the good news of the Gospel, that imperfect persons and those who are struggling and will continue to struggle can be saved and perfected in Christ, seems to be the emphasis.

Is it just me? Or, has anyone else perceived this, too?   I think I began to notice a difference around 2007, but maybe that was only because I wasn't really active then, and in need of repentence, myself.  I wonder when this all began to evolve?  Any ideas?

Watch the clip! You'll be glad you did.

Our world seems to be changing and these changes are affecting people's lives especially in the moral areas of life. A couple of weeks ago, someone was quoting Bruce R. McConkie in class and I thought wow, a flashback from the 1970's. McConkie sounded harsh now but back then, he didn't sound harsh. Times have changed. The church needed to evolve because it seems that evil is more prevalent these days. And on the moral landscrape, evil is more pervasive within our societies. The media is a catalyst for these changes. Without the evolving church to cope with the amoral landscape, many members would be in trouble if we still stress perfection and obedience as we did in the past.

I think that we are also experiencing a great uprooting of traditions and community as people are tossed around as if they are in a personal hurricane. I think that the video attempts to address this. People are afraid of the future and many are just trying to find a root to latch on to. Such is life within a 'runaway world'.

Edited by why me, 22 December 2011 - 12:04 AM.

[Peppermint Patty]

cinepro, on 21 December 2011 - 08:42 PM, said:

I've noticed the same thing, but to me it seemed to be more of an intelligently-designed development.

I would be interested to see you expound a little more on this, Mr. Cinepro.

[Sine Saw Square]

Peppermint Patty, on 22 December 2011 - 06:33 PM, said:

I would be interested to see you expound a little more on this, Mr. Cinepro.

You say: "It seems to me like there has been an organic evolution in the Church's leadership"
He responds: "I've noticed the same thing, but to me it seemed to be more of an intelligently-designed development."

It's a joke see.  What with the controversy in education curriculum... and science... and... stuff. (trails off into mumbling)

Edited by Sine Saw Square, 22 December 2011 - 06:50 PM.

[zeez]

Peppermint Patty, on 21 December 2011 - 07:33 PM, said:

Is it just me? Or, has anyone else perceived this, too?   I think I began to notice a difference around 2007, but maybe that was only because I wasn't really active then, and in need of repentence, myself.  I wonder when this all began to evolve?  Any ideas?

It's not just you. Look at the multi-million dollar ad campaign. The thrust of the Mormon media message today is, "We are so, damn normal! There is nothing extremist about us at all."

[Cold Steel]

Perspective is everything. One can say the best is ahead of us and they'd be right. But one would also be correct in saying the worst also is ahead of us. People fear change, and our society has become too entrenched in technological achievements. Prophecy looms ahead of us as a very dark cloud, behind which is a very silver lining. President Hinckley said we were a blessed generation and that we were fortunate to be a part of it. He then died a few months later!

How well will we make the transition to a world without air conditioning, or without a power grid? How will we adjust to that food supply we've been saving but many times not eating? Before things get better, the Lord will withdraw His Spirit from this nation. Then, we're told, we can expect the Adversary to once again stir up the hearts of the people against the Lord's people.

Fortunately, we have prophets. How else can a Zion society be established? When civil wars erupt across the nation...when a desolating sickness covers the land, and manufacturing and commerce ceases, revelation and the manifestation of God's power will be just as necessary as it was in the days when He led Moses and the children of Israel out of Egypt. We're told that even the saints will hardly escape, but still, it's difficult to see these things and not be affected at all. But the Gospel will go into other nations and then afterwards to the Jews.

We're very close to the Seventh Seal being opened and the only thing we have to experience is the Sixth Seal earthquake. This will cause massive destruction, darkening the sun and turning the moon to blood. I often wonder how the Catholics, Methodists, Presbyterians and others will deal with these days and times when they've closed the door on revelation?

In this dispensation the Lord said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, darkness covereth the earth, and gross darkness the minds of the people, and all flesh has become corrupt before my face. Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord. And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord; first among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house."

So while the Brethren are right when they say the best is ahead, we also are given to understand that it will be a time of tribulation and sifting. The wheat will be separated from tares, and while the future may have its challenges it also will have its opportunities. (I recently heard a church author who has written and lectured on the return of Christ say that when it happens, a child looking out the window of a car might confuse the returning Christ with an airliner landing at the local airport! It was a silly thing to say, really, in that it presupposes that our society would continue on as it is until then. By closing our eyes to some of the unpleasant aspects of the future, I fear that many may not be prepared for it. Am I wrong?)

[Kenngo1969]

Rivers, on 21 December 2011 - 10:58 PM, said:

So did the family ever finish the trip?

Yes.  Elder Holland and his family were headed east so that he could continue his education at Yale.

[Peppermint Patty]

Rivers, on 21 December 2011 - 10:30 PM, said:

This is something I think every member of the church needs to watch.  I think it encompasses a lot of what being a mormon is all about.

Great comment.  I agree 100%.  It gives me hope that despite my many, many shortcomings, Christ will make all things whole in the next life.  I know many woman in the Church that beat themselves up every day because they are not perfect.  They need  to hear Russell M. Nelson's counsel.

[zerinus]

Peppermint Patty, on 21 December 2011 - 07:33 PM, said:

http://mormonchannel...v=1289877050001

The link above goes to a really brief video clip on Mormon.org, wherein Elder Russel M. Nelson gives some of the most gentle, sweet and encouraging counsel I have ever heard. It seems to me like there has been an organic evolution in the Church's leadership where there is less focus and demand for personal perfection RIGHT NOW and more focus on faith that Christ will more than make up the difference in any area where we are lacking as long as are willing to keep on trying.

Growing up in the Church, it seemed like personal perfection or damnation seemed to be the clarion call. Perhaps it was for a reason at that point in the Church's history. Now, however, it seems that the good news of the Gospel, that imperfect persons and those who are struggling and will continue to struggle can be saved and perfected in Christ, seems to be the emphasis.

Is it just me? Or, has anyone else perceived this, too?   I think I began to notice a difference around 2007, but maybe that was only because I wasn't really active then, and in need of repentence, myself.  I wonder when this all began to evolve?  Any ideas?

Watch the clip! You'll be glad you did.

"organic evolution in the Church's leadership?" I wish I knew what you were talking about. I have been in the Church for years, and don't recognize such a thing. Can you be a bit more specific, and give specific examples of how the current teaching of the Church leadership is somehow out of sync with what was taught ten or twenty or thirty or fifty years earlier?

[zerinus]

Peppermint Patty, on 23 December 2011 - 10:10 AM, said:

I know many woman in the Church that beat themselves up every day because they are not perfect. They need  to hear Russell M. Nelson's counsel.

Ummm, never knew anything like that either. You must have been going to Church on a different planet from where I have been going.

[why me]

Peppermint Patty, on 23 December 2011 - 10:10 AM, said:

Great comment.  I agree 100%.  It gives me hope that despite my many, many shortcomings, Christ will make all things whole in the next life.  I know many woman in the Church that beat themselves up every day because they are not perfect.  They need  to hear Russell M. Nelson's counsel.

There is no reason for anyone to beat themselves up because they are not perfect. No one is perfect nor will they ever be in this life. Joseph Smith was not perfect and he knew it. He tried to get the saints to understand that he was no different from them in their imperfections. He even said that he wasn't righteous.

But if you do know of women who beat themselves up you need to speak with them to convince them that there is no reason to do so. Show them the video. You can do wonders for such women.

[why me]

zeez, on 22 December 2011 - 07:20 PM, said:

It's not just you. Look at the multi-million dollar ad campaign. The thrust of the Mormon media message today is, "We are so, damn normal! There is nothing extremist about us at all."

And they are normal. That is the point. Whether you believe it is irrelevant. What is extremist about what mormons believe? To live the commandments as laid down in the new testament? To find joy in doing the word of god? And to treat others as you would want to be treated?

Sad that you think that mormons are extremists. They are just trying to do what they think is right to be with their Father in the afterlife.

Edited by why me, 25 December 2011 - 02:58 PM.

[altersteve]

This is what I love so much about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and it's teachings like this that make me so proud and happy to be a member of it. Thank you for posting this.

[Libs]

That was a very nice video.  What I got from it, more than just "one doesn't have to be perfect in this lifetime" was the reason one doesn't have to be insecure, in spite of weaknesses & imperfections. What I saw, in Elder Nelson, was a strength and comfort that comes from his faith in Jesus Christ and the gospel.

Peppermint Patty, on 23 December 2011 - 10:10 AM, said:

Great comment.  I agree 100%.  It gives me hope that despite my many, many shortcomings, Christ will make all things whole in the next life.  I know many woman in the Church that beat themselves up every day because they are not perfect.  They need  to hear Russell M. Nelson's counsel.

That is a problem for a lot of women (in and out of the church)..  We tend to be very hard on ourselves.

Very nice video.  Very comforting tone.

Edited by Libs, 26 December 2011 - 01:15 AM.

[mbh26]

Peppermint Patty, on 23 December 2011 - 10:10 AM, said:

Great comment.  I agree 100%.  It gives me hope that despite my many, many shortcomings, Christ will make all things whole in the next life.  I know many woman in the Church that beat themselves up every day because they are not perfect.  They need  to hear Russell M. Nelson's counsel.

Would these women be really doing all they could do if they weren't beating themselves up?  And doesn't the Book of Mormon say we are only saved after all we can do?  Can any of us say confidently, "I'm doing all I can do."  If not, you're headed for hell according to this all or nothing thinking, which is the ultimate problem that skews the truth and lead me to so much distress, anxiety and depression throughout my life.  I personally now have the courage to not believe it's all or nothing.  I believe every decision I've ever made counted in some way regardless of later repentances.  But that leaves me in contradiction to current Mormon theology.  That was difficult for me to swallow, but in the end, you have to go with what you feel is right.  That's where Mormonism started for me in the first place.  It just seems funny that same basic sense of fairness, right, and wrong is where it also is ending for me.

[OUmd]

zerinus, on 25 December 2011 - 02:36 PM, said:

Ummm, never knew anything like that either. You must have been going to Church on a different planet from where I have been going.

Never? Wow. Indeed, I must be attending a Church on a different planet too.