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Cooking With Alcohol

Cooking with alcohol  

179 members have voted

  1. 1. In your opinion does cooking with alcohols such as wine or beer violate the Word of Wisdom, given the fact that sometimes not all alcohol is cooked out of such a dish?

    • Yes
      22
    • No
      157


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Could it have been absorbed by the rice?

Technically speaking yes(rice starch, like any starch, can absorb liquids including alcohol), but again the amounts would be incredibly small.

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Are we drinking the alcohol because we want to or because we have to?

 

Seriously?

 

How about that OREO® Dream Extreme Cheesecake from the Cheesecake Factory (or any other seriously unhealthy intake from any number of sources)? Do we consume it "because we want to[,] or because we have to?" My wife and I refuse to pass out copious volumes of Halloween candy each and every year. Talk about engendering poor nutritional habits! 

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 My wife and I refuse to pass out copious volumes of Halloween candy each and every year. Talk about engendering poor nutritional habits! 

Do you just turn off the lights?  I suppose one could hand out bags of nuts, maybe almonds.  I would assume someone with a nut allergy would have to avoid most candy anyway because so often nuts are around in the processing area.

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My digestive tract is its own little micro-brewery which produces ethanol up to the equivalent of around 2 beers every day.  Heaven forbid that we cook or eat anything at all, or else we might get a little alcohol in us!

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Do you just turn off the lights?  I suppose one could hand out bags of nuts, maybe almonds.  I would assume someone with a nut allergy would have to avoid most candy anyway because so often nuts are around in the processing area.

 

It's an annual date-night for us (for nearly twenty-five years). Invariably we go to dinner. And, given the invariably rich caloric content in restaurant meals, we immediately slice a physical cut-line through the middle of our served food, and take that balance home as take-out. Four meals for the price of two ... and without the excessive daily intake (gluttony).

There is certainly no personal or societal worth in being tied to nonsensical traditions connected with bad health practices ... particularly those that involve/include gluttony and excess (Christmas and Thanksgiving included). "Moderation in all things." What's good for you body? What's good for your soul? What's good for your family and your society? Certainly that doesn't/shouldn't single-out moderate alcohol consumption folks over moderate-to-excessive cheesecake (or Halloween candy) eaters. I have seen reliable research that indicates that per capita Utah is the greatest consumer of ice cream. Hey, "life's short ... eat desert first."

 

If one looks in the full-length mirror, and one doesn't like what they see, then one should reasonably change their dietary and physical exertion habits. Hey, "faith without works is dead", after all.

Edited by cursor

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Seriously?

 

How about that OREO® Dream Extreme Cheesecake from the Cheesecake Factory (or any other seriously unhealthy intake from any number of sources)? Do we consume it "because we want to[,] or because we have to?" My wife and I refuse to pass out copious volumes of Halloween candy each and every year. Talk about engendering poor nutritional habits! 

 

Sounds yummy. But if done to excess of OREO® Dream Extreme Cheesecake then I would say limit its consumption.

Edited by thesometimesaint

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For those 17 people who voted that cooking with alcohol violates the word of wisdom, consider the following words from the mouth of a prophet, President Mckay: 

 

At a reception McKay attended, the hostess served rum cake.  ”All the guests hesitated, watching to see what McKay would do.  He smacked his lips and began to eat.”  When one guest expostulated, “‘But President McKay, don’t you know that is rum cake?’  McKay smiled and reminded the guest that the Word of Wisdom forbade drinking alcohol, not eating it.”  :rofl:
 

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Sounds yummy. But if done to excess of OREO® Dream Extreme Cheesecake then I would say limit its consumption.

 

And how might that be different from moderate alcohol consumption, or any other substance. Again, moderation in all things.

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Again, moderation in all things.

 

I had a flatmate in America who was convinced this was a gospel teaching and not actually Greek philosophy. He was frustrated when he couldn't find it anywhere in his Bible.

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And how might that be different from moderate alcohol consumption, or any other substance. Again, moderation in all things.

 

For the non LDS moderate amounts of alcohol is about a single glass of wine 2-3 times a week with a meal. For preganant women it would be far less.  For the LDS our covenents with God demands no alcoholic drinks, and strict limits on other ingestion of products containing alcohol. IE; Yeast bread has minute amounts of alcohol in it, even after baking. I wouldn't say that eating yeast bread any where near approaches a violation of the WoW. There maybe some few that do. But I and apparantly the Church isn't one of them. Eating several whole loaves in one sitting may be, but for other reasons than the WoW ban on alcohol.

 

Again what is moderate? Aside from covenents with God It is totally dependent of what it is, and how much is moderate. Drinking water obviously isn't a violation of the WoW. Drinking water until you seriously mess up your electrolyte balance would be.

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For the LDS our covenents (sic) with God demands no alcoholic drinks, and strict limits on other ingestion of products containing alcohol. 

 

I'd be interested in evidence that a Mormon has ever been asked to make a covenant to keep the word of wisdom. I know I've been asked if I keep the word of wisdom in temple recommend interviews. But even then I've not been asked to covenant to drink no alcoholic drinks.

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I'd be interested in evidence that a Mormon has ever been asked to make a covenant to keep the word of wisdom. I know I've been asked if I keep the word of wisdom in temple recommend interviews. But even then I've not been asked to covenant to drink no alcoholic drinks.

 

Part of the covenents we make at baptism is to follow the WoW. We are again are asked if we keep the WoW in the TR interview. You won't face Church Discipline if after baptism you violated the WoW. However you can be limited in the Callings you hold and Temple ceremonies you can participate in, until you come into compliance.

 

  1. Do you believe the Church and gospel of Jesus Christ have been restored through the Prophet Joseph Smith? Do you believe that [current Church President] is a prophet of God? What does this mean to you?
  2. What does it mean to you to repent? Do you feel that you have repented of your past transgressions?
  3. Have you ever committed a serious crime? If so, are you now on probation or parole? Have you ever participated in an abortion? a homosexual relationship?
  4. You have been taught that membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints includes living gospel standards.  What do you understand of the following standards?  Are you willing to obey them?

     

    1. The law of chastity, which prohibits any sexual relationship outside the bonds of a legal marriage between a man and a woman?
    2. The law of tithing.
    3. The Word of Wisdom.
    4. The Sabbath day, including partaking of the sacrament weekly and rendering service to fellow members.
  5. When you are baptized, you covenant with God that you are willing to take upon yourself the name of Christ and keep His commandments throughout your life.  Are you ready to make this covenant and strive to be faithful to it?

(The above was quoted from the manual Preach My Gospel, page 206)

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Part of the covenents we make at baptism is to follow the WoW. We are again are asked if we keep the WoW in the TR interview. You won't face Church Discipline if after baptism you violated the WoW. However you can be limited in the Callings you hold and Temple ceremonies you can participate in, until you come into compliance.

 

The WoW is about quality physical health. Read it's promises. 

 

Seriously, what has been later learned and firmly established about optimal physical health studies since the early to mid 1800s? Well ... I could tell you. But I seriously doubt that you'd listen to any connected scientific logic.

Edited by cursor

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The WoW is about quality physical health. Read it's promises. ...

In part, that's true.  It may even be true in large part.  But the most important promises associated with the Word of Wisdom are in the last four verses of Section 89 are only tangentially related to physical health. :)

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The WoW is about quality physical health. Read it's promises. 

 

Seriously, what has been later learned and firmly established about optimal physical health studies since the early to mid 1800s? Well ... I could tell you. But I seriously doubt that you'd listen to any connected scientific logic.

 

I'm always open to scientific logic. Every study I've ever seen is that we are to drink less alcohol, eat less meat, don't smoke. That whole grains, fresh fruits, and vegetables in season are better for you than the overly processed kinds. See USDA food recommendations. http://www.choosemyplate.gov/videos.html

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Yes, drink "less" alcohol" (how much "less" than "what"). What level of consumption might be truly detrimental to personal health (hey, do you use pure vanilla extract when cooking ... I do)? How is that any different from "eat less cheesecake" than ... "what?" Or consume less Snelgove's ice cream (boasted by their marketing campaign to contain the highest level of dietary fat of ANY ice cream)? Additionally note that in D&C 89 there is no prescription for physical exertion. How significant might that singular element be tied to the health balance required by nutritional intake?

 

By the way, the USDA is a heavily externally influenced (by private industry) governmental institution. Feel free to read up. Smart health (WoW+) comes from clearly understanding what the human body needs, and by adjusting one's daily dietary intake and physical exertion to match. In the mid 1800s the availability of quality info was not what it is today. 

 

[additionally, ] By the way, according to the FDA, any vanilla extract that claims to be "pure" requires that "the solution contain 35% of alcohol and 100g of vanilla beans per litre (13.35 ounces per gallon)." Should one actively burn-off the alcohol in said "pure vanilla extract" in order to conform to the WoW ... or to qualify for a temple recommend? Be sensible. Be smart. Be informed. Stay healthy & physically-fit. That surely is what the WoW+ should be.

Edited by cursor

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Yes, drink "less" alcohol" (how much "less" than "what"). What level of consumption might be truly detrimental to personal health (hey, do you use pure vanilla extract when cooking ... I do)? How is that any different from "eat less cheesecake" than ... "what?" Or consume less Snelgove's ice cream (boasted by their marketing campaign to contain the highest level of dietary fat of ANY ice cream)? Additionally note that in D&C 89 there is no prescription for physical exertion. How significant might that singular element be tied to the health balance required by nutritional intake?

 

BTW, the USDA is a heavily externally influenced (by private industry) governmental institution. Feel free to read up. Smart health (WoW+) comes from clearly understanding what the human body needs, and by adjusting one's daily dietary intake and physical exertion to match. In the mid 1800s the availability of quality info was not what it is today. 

 

By the way, according to the FDA, any vanilla extract that claims to be "pure" requires that "the solution contain 35% of alcohol and 100g of vanilla beans per litre (13.35 ounces per gallon)." Does one actively burn-off the alcohol in pure vanilla extract in order to conform to the WoW? Or ... might such a burn-off procedure not comply with the requirement for quality health? Be sensible. Be smart. Be informed.

 

The LDS are not to drink alcohol. IE; Beer, Wine , or Spirits. I know of no prohabition on using small amounts of flavoring extracts to improve, or modify the taste of foods. We are not absolutists in that type of thing. Using a cup of booze in a long cooking process evaporates nearly all of the alcohol long before it ever hits your lips. Drinking that booze, even with the meal, is a different question. As I said yeast breads have minute quantities of alcohol even after baking. Neither I nor the Church has any prohabition on eating yeast bread because of the minute amounts of alcohol present.

 

That being said if you, or someone else, is alergic to alcohol then you/they shouldn't use it.

 

If you are eating too much cheesecake(or anything else). Then for your own health, I would recommend eating less of it. The ocassional piece of cheesecake isn't likely to hurt anyone. AND we have no prohabition on it. Using wisdom in our dietary choices should preclude a steady diet of cheesecake. No matter how good it tastes. There is no mention of rice in the WoW yet billions of people use it as their primary grain. I would be the last person to tell them not to eat rice. Nor do I believe God cares one way or the other.

 

I never said that the USDA isn't heavily influenced by food manufactures. IE; While very small there is an amount of bugs, hair, and other contaminates are allowed in processed food. At present there is no technological fix for that problem. So we just limit our exposure to below what is likely to cause human sickness. Overall the USDA guidelines are good, and readily adaptable by the vast majority of people. If someone has beliefs, or health conditions that preclude somethings then by all means do that.

 

When the WoW came out getting needed exercise really wasn't much of a concern to those early Saints. Today it is a concern. Though we won't excommunicate someone whom a Bishop believes doesn't get enough exercise. My mom, while never a member in her life, was always heavy set. She never smoked, and in the nearly 60 years I knew her she drank maybe, at most. a half a dozen glasses of booze. She could out work 3 men. Her blood pressure was perfect till the day she died a 93 years old.

 

Yes nearly all of the alcohol is burned off in long cooking processes. Some will always remain. But the amounts are so small as to be negligble. Sure percentage wise extracts are as high as good quality spirits. But I don't know of many that would sit down with a bottle of vanilla extract to drink it.

 

Always be sensible, smart, and informed. :good:

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The original poll question asked "In your opinion does cooking with alcohols such as wine or beer violate the Word of Wisdom, given the fact that sometimes not all alcohol is cooked out of such a dish?"

 

Most beers are lower than 5% alcohol. On the other hand the content of pure vanilla extract is 35%, by rule of the FDA. How is it, reasonably, that beer (at just 4-8% alcohol content) should be placed in some restrictive, don't touch it at all, class ... when genuine vanilla extract (by definition is nearly 10x more potent?

 

Shouldn't it really be about the individual application of common sense? 

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The original poll question asked "In your opinion does cooking with alcohols such as wine or beer violate the Word of Wisdom, given the fact that sometimes not all alcohol is cooked out of such a dish?"

 

Most beers are lower than 5% alcohol. On the other hand the content of pure vanilla extract is 35%, by rule of the FDA. How is it, reasonably, that beer (at just 4-8% alcohol content) should be placed in some restrictive, don't touch it at all, class ... when genuine vanilla extract (by definition is nearly 10x more potent?

 

Shouldn't it really be about the individual application of common sense? 

Normal cooking can't remove ALL the alcohol once it is there.. Even yeast bread contains minute amounts of alcohol after baking(About 95% of the alcohol is evaporated off by normal cooking temperatures and durations). So take 5% of 35% of maybe a teaspoon of so of vanilla extract. That's 0.03 millileters of alcohol or about 15th of a teaspoon spread out in the entire dish.

 

I guess you can call hypocracy on us all you want, but the LDS are not absolutests when it comes to things that contain minute amounts of alcohol.

 

How often do you sit down with a bottle of vanilla extract and drink it?

 

We are to use wisdom annd good judgement is what we put into our mouths. You can live a long and happy life and never drink alcoholic beverages.

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I had no interest in reading all of this thread so if this has already been pointed out, please forgive me.

 

BUT,

 

Ethanol (ethyl alcohol) has a boiling point of 173°F (presumably at sea level, boiling temperature would be lower at higher elevations).  In cooking, the only way to get the alcohol above 173°F without evaporating all of it is to keep it under pressure.

 

SO!!!!

 

If you cook above 173°F and you don't pressurize it, then you don't need to worry about having any alcohol left in the food.

Edited by Vance

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I had no interest in reading all of this thread so if this has already been pointed out, please forgive me.

 

BUT,

 

Ethanol (ethyl alcohol) has a boiling point of 173°F (presumably at sea level, boiling temperature would be lower at higher elevations).  In cooking, the only way to get the alcohol above 173°F without evaporating all of it is to keep it under pressure.

 

SO!!!!

 

If you cook above 173°F and you don't pressurize it, then you don't need to worry about having any alcohol left in the food.

Technically there is some alcohol left, but so little all but the strictest,most diehard teetotaler wouldn't object. As my chef friends tell me. Cooking is just putting this and that together until it tastes good. While baking is chemistry. ;)

 

See Azeotrope:  In chemistry, a mixture of liquids that has a constant boiling point because the vapor has the same composition as the liquid mixture. The boiling point of an azeotropic mixture may be higher or lower than that of any of its components. The components of the solution cannot be separated by simple distillation.

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Tiramisu should replace cookies, brownies, jello and ice cream at any and all LDS functions.

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My husband is about as TBM as they come.  However, he is also a gourmet chef, and cooks with wine quite regularly.  He actually tried using cooking wine, but there is just so much salt in it, that it does not produce the right flavor.

 

I don't feel at all guilty about having a bottle of red wine and a bottle of white wine in our fridge for cooking.  The things is, we use so little of it that the same bottle will stay in our fridge for MONTHS. (Actually, I think the one that is in there now is close to a YEAR old.  LOL)  If someone actually DID try to drink it, they would likely get a mouthful of vinegar rather than any type of "high".   :rofl:

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