77 replies to this topic

[JAHS]

Many people use alcohols such as wine or beer in their cooking to add flavor. Given the fact that sometimes not all alcohol is cooked out of the dish would you consider eating such dishes a violation of the Word of Wisdom?

Edited by JAHS, 15 December 2011 - 12:55 PM.

[KevinG]

You need to specify if the alcohol is cooked out or not in the poll.  Nothing is ever cooked out completely but you aren't going to experience an altered state of mind or become addicted to trace amounts.

I use it to bring out the flavors in tomato based sauces.  I always ask my friends (LDS or not) if this is an issue for them and if it is I pass on using it.  I would never even offer to someone who had a history of alcohol abuse.  If anyone in my house ever snuck a drink or had a more severe substance issue it would not longer be stored here or used in cooking.

I would not however cook or consume things where the alcohol is still present in significant amounts (like a rum cake).

Strict adherence to never consuming alcohol would demand refraining from most artificial or natural flavorings (vanilla extract) or orange and grape juice more than a few days old.

Edited by DaddyG, 15 December 2011 - 12:42 PM.

[KevinG]

Cooking with alcohol...

http://www.hulu.com/...the-french-chef

[Nominee]

I make my own vanilla extract. I understand the purpose of the alcohol as a carrier; however, I would not use alcohol just to enhance flavor. And most recipes that call for alcohol have substitutes that can be used. I also take Nyquil when I am super sick. I didn't vote because as Daddy said it isn't specific enough. Yes, I use it ~but only if it cooks out.

[JAHS]

OK I have modified the question to be more specific. I am also wondering just how many people are aware that in most cases not all alcohol is cooked out of such dishes.

[CV75]

If it isn't intended to violate the Word of Wisdom, then it doesn't violate it. But I think we need to be sensitive to Paul's admonition in I Corinthians Chapter 8 and make sure we do not offend others in our company. This would include not offending those we know think it violates the Word of Wisdom or who are suffering an addiction / in recovery where discussion, odors, tastes, etc. might be unsettling to them.

Edited by CV75, 15 December 2011 - 01:04 PM.

[KevinG]

JAHS, on 15 December 2011 - 12:57 PM, said:

OK I have modified the question to be more specific. I am also wondering just how many people are aware that in most cases not all alcohol is cooked out of such dishes.

I am very aware of that.

There is a table that shows the percentage that remains after simmering or boiling half way down this page.  http://www.ochef.com/165.htm

I simmer my tomato sauce for roughly 30-60 minutes after I add the ingredients.  Therefore this chart says 30% of the alcohol remains.  1/2 cup of wine at 10% alcohol content in 10 cups of sauce (I make big batches) leaves approximately .3 x .05 x .1 = .0015 or

%.015 alcohol by volume in cooked tomato sauce.

(Someone check my math)

[ksfisher]

I voted yes.  Not because of the alcohol that doesn't cook off though.  I believe that supporting the companies that produce the wine or beer is what is wrong.  People are making money by taking advantage of others weaknesses.

[KevinG]

ksfisher, on 15 December 2011 - 01:10 PM, said:

I voted yes.  Not because of the alcohol that doesn't cook off though.  I believe that supporting the companies that produce the wine or beer is what is wrong.  People are making money by taking advantage of others weaknesses.

Thought provoking point!  I will ponder that given my current practices.

[Mansquatch]

DaddyG, on 15 December 2011 - 01:14 PM, said:

Thought provoking point!  I will ponder that given my current practices.

Gonna make your own moonshine now DaddyG?

[thesometimesaint]

JAHS:

Without extrordinary measures there is ALWAYS some alcohol left. Even yeast breads have a very small amount of alcohol left after baking. I don't see us giving up bread because there is alcohol in them. So what we're really talking about is to how much alcohol is enough to violate the WoW. To me baked goods, long cooked foods that have alcohol added or naturally occuring don't qualify as a violation like drinking the stuff does.

[KevinG]

Mansquatch, on 15 December 2011 - 01:20 PM, said:

Gonna make your own moonshine now DaddyG?

Then I'd really blend in here in North Georgia!

[JAHS]

thesometimesaint, on 15 December 2011 - 01:20 PM, said:

JAHS:

Without extrordinary measures there is ALWAYS some alcohol left. Even yeast breads have a very small amount of alcohol left after baking. I don't see us giving up bread because there is alcohol in them. So what we're really talking about is to how much alcohol is enough to violate the WoW. To me baked goods, long cooked foods that have alcohol added or naturally occuring don't qualify as a violation like drinking the stuff does.

This really is going to be a matter of individual opinions. It's hard to know for sure how much alcohol might be in a dish that is cooked using it. Most restaurants use it all the time in their cooking or even in non cooked foods that are served to LDS members all the time.  This is probably a case for living the spirit of the law, by not intentionally drinking it for the alcohol effects, and not worrying so much abut how much is leftover in cooked foods.

Edited by JAHS, 15 December 2011 - 02:28 PM.

[Saints Alive]

The WoW only refers to Drinking  Strong drinks it says nothing about otherwise consuming them. IMHO as long as the intent is to flavor the dish and not to experience a “buzz” it does not violate the word of wisdom. For the record I also eat tiramisu (which is soaked in coffee) and don’t feel that it violates the WoW.  

[LeSellers]

Saints Alive, on 15 December 2011 - 01:51 PM, said:

The WoW only refers to Drinking  Strong drinks it says nothing about otherwise consuming them. IMHO as long as the intent is to flavor the dish and not to experience a “buzz” it does not violate the word of wisdom. For the record I also eat tiramisu (which is soaked in coffee) and don’t feel that it violates the WoW.  

The Word of Wisdom says strong drinks and hot drinks are not for the belly but strong drinks are for washing the body. Hot drinks, defined by prophets since 1844, as coffee and tea are not for the belly, irrespective of how they get there, by chewing or direct swallowing.

Doc&Cov 89:5~7, 9 said:

5 That inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him. 6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, pure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.

7 And, again, strong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.
...
9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.

The point is, it does not say we ought not drink them, it says we ought not put them in our bellies.

Lehi

[Saints Alive]

LeSellers, on 15 December 2011 - 02:20 PM, said:

The Word of Wisdom says strong drinks and hot drinks are not for the belly but strong drinks are for washing the body. Hot drinks, defined by prophets since 1844, as coffee and tea are not for the belly, irrespective of how they get there, by chewing or direct swallowing.

The point is, it does not say we ought not drink them, it says we ought not put them in our bellies.

Lehi

All the same, it says strong drinks not strong food. there is a fundamental difference between consuming an ounce or two of wine in food and drinking an 8 ounce glass.

also originally strong drinks would not be classified as beer or wine but hard liqour, also few people know that the WoW didn't become commandment until prohibition.

[ksfisher]

Perhaps rather than trying to understand what Joseph Smith meant by strong drinks we should be looking at what the prophet is teaching to us today.  It seems clear to me that we should be trying to avoid alcoholic drinks, coffee, and tea in all their forms.  The counsel to avoid energy drinks, although not a commandment, does seem like a "word of wisdom" from our prophet today.

[ERayR]

JAHS, on 15 December 2011 - 12:21 PM, said:

Many people use alcohols such as wine or beer in their cooking to add flavor. Given the fact that sometimes not all alcohol is cooked out of the dish would you consider eating such dishes a violation of the Word of Wisdom?

Does using Vanilla extract in your cooking violate the word of wisdom?

[Cobalt-70]

Small amounts of alcohol, used for flavoring, are not a Word of Wisdom problem. It is not even possible to completely eliminate alcohol from your diet. On average, your digestive system will produce about 3 grams (milliliters) of ethanol per day just from normal digestion of your food--more if you eat lots of bread and sugars. This amount is more than you would usually use as flavoring.

In addition, the Word of Wisdom was not, originally, an outright ban on alcohol. In fact, the revelation said that mild drinks made of barley or other grains (i.e., beer) were good. The problem solved by the revelation was the drinking of wine (except sacramental) and hard liquor. Granted, the church's health code has been expanded to include beer and other things that were not contemplated in the revelation, like the cannabis or coca herbs, but if you want to have a diet free from all alcoholic additives, I don't think you can go to the scripture to justify your zeal. And even if you try to avoid all alcohol in your diet, your gut will make it for you anyway.

Edited by Cobalt-70, 15 December 2011 - 05:35 PM.

[JAHS]

ERayR, on 15 December 2011 - 03:39 PM, said:

Does using Vanilla extract in your cooking violate the word of wisdom?

Vanilla extract has about 35% alcohol and I use a full tablespoon of it in every batch of Chocolate chip cookies I make and they only bake for 9 minutes, so there's probably not much time for the alcohol to cook off, although it is diluted out to about 2 dozen cookies.
If that does violate the WOW then so be it; I'm not changing my recipe