46 replies to this topic

[Sky]

It sounds like this was simply a case of an overzealous employee in the testing center, after all.  But I don’t think it will stop angry accusations of an oppressive school and church, especially towards women.  The damage has been done.

Edited by Sky, 07 December 2011 - 05:44 PM.

[KevinG]

Sky, on 07 December 2011 - 05:42 PM, said:

It sounds like this was simply a case of an overzealous employee in the testing center, after all.  But I don’t think it will stop angry accusations of an oppressive school and church, especially towards women.  The damage has been done.

In the case of skinny jeans women and emo boys.

I just hope they draw the line at muffin tops.

Edited by DaddyG, 07 December 2011 - 08:20 PM.

[kolipoki09]

Sky, on 07 December 2011 - 05:42 PM, said:

It sounds like this was simply a case of an overzealous employee in the testing center, after all.  But I don’t think it will stop angry accusations of an oppressive school and church, especially towards women.  The damage has been done.

That's precisely what it was.  Unfortunately, the Testing Center encourages very conservative interpretations of the Honor Code that I think miss the point all-together. The selectiveness of it all also bothers me. Male TC employees won't turn away girls with skirts well above their knees or with low-cut tops. Overall, it's a guilty until proven innocent type of attitude that I have issues with. I don't have any problem with the school's administration. I have a problem with TC employees enforcing their private interpretation of the Honor Code on students.

[volgadon]

What is the testing center?

[kolipoki09]

volgadon, on 08 December 2011 - 12:08 AM, said:

What is the testing center?

It's the place where the majority of tests for any given class are offered. Rather than having it in the classroom during class time, students take their tests any time during an established period (usually within a two-day schedule). It employs about a dozen or so people at a time constantly watching for any people suspected to be cheating, along with handing you the proper test once you come in. There are usually a hundred or so students in the Testing Center at any given time, but during finals week, that can grow to several hundred.

[Sky]

The line on this flyer to “go home and prayerfully visit with your Father in Heaven and recommit yourself to be a true disciple” is what I found to be the most unfortunate and objectionable of all.

[bluebell]

Sky, on 08 December 2011 - 09:04 AM, said:

The line on this flyer to “go home and prayerfully visit with your Father in Heaven and recommit yourself to be a true disciple” is what I found to be the most unfortunate and objectionable of all.

I agree.

[calmoriah]

Sky, on 08 December 2011 - 09:04 AM, said:

The line on this flyer to “go home and prayerfully visit with your Father in Heaven and recommit yourself to be a true disciple” is what I found to be the most unfortunate and objectionable of all.

Yech.

I suggest making a flyer that states if you start obsessing about the spiritual state of someone else based on their outward appearance that you "go home and prayerfully visit with your Father in Heaven and recommit yourself to be a true disciple”.

Edited by calmoriah, 08 December 2011 - 12:51 PM.

[frankenstein]

Sky, on 08 December 2011 - 09:04 AM, said:

The line on this flyer to “go home and prayerfully visit with your Father in Heaven and recommit yourself to be a true disciple” is what I found to be the most unfortunate and objectionable of all.

Much worse the flyer is suggesting that BYU honor and the Gospel of Jesus Christ are the same thing and that true discipleship can only come from living the Honor Code. What a disgusting attitude of self righteousness the creator of that flyer has.

I am glad there are Church schools for those individuals who wish to attend, I am eternally great-full attendance at such schools is not mandatory and will not be used a measure of righteousness at the Bar of God.

.

Edited by frankenstein, 08 December 2011 - 12:58 PM.

[kolipoki09]

frankenstein, on 08 December 2011 - 12:57 PM, said:

Much worse the flyer is suggesting that BYU honor and the Gospel of Jesus Christ are the same thing and that true discipleship can only come from living the Honor Code. What a disgusting attitude of self righteousness the creator of that flyer has.

When you're "tempting" the Testing Center, you're testing the very authority of Him who dwells on high. Just ask BYU-Idaho testing center director John Dexter:

Quote

“I decided after a couple weeks of prayerful consideration and some discussions here in our staff that something had to be done. I put out one sign; I tend to be a little bit rash, but we modified it so that it’s not too harsh...

If a student prays and they think that the tight ‘formfitting' clothing is accepted by the Lord, they have not asked, or have not asked the right question, or they have chosen an answer for their own gratification. I don't believe the Lord would give approval to anyone to be disobedient to the CES Dress and Grooming Standards."

Of course, to Dexter, there is only one interpretation of the CES Dress and Grooming Standards - his.

Overall, I think Joanna Brooks nailed this one.

Quote

Some Mormons emphasize the importance of obedience for obedience's sake as a key principle. Others ask whether disproportionate attention to dress standards sends the right message about the relationship between appearance and spirituality to LDS youth, especially when the brunt of conservative dress standards enforcement falls on young women, and particularly on curvy young women or young women of size. Curvy girls bear a burden of attention — negative and positive — to their bodies anyways. Faith-based "modesty" enforcement compound those body issues among young women.

[kolipoki09]

For those wanting to see the "offending outfit" in question, this was it. Shame on the Testing Center Gestapo.

[frankenstein]

In the immortal words of the peasant "A witch, a witch" "burn her"

[kolipoki09]

frankenstein, on 09 December 2011 - 03:01 PM, said:

In the immortal words of the peasant "A witch, a witch" "burn her"

If...she...weighs the same as a duck......she's made of wood.

[Gohan]

...then she's a witch! Burn her!

But on a slightly more serious note, are there any reprimands being given? I know the texting center director has to make a formal apology to any students turned away, and I've heard hints of a few other things, but not much else.

Edited by Gohan, 09 December 2011 - 10:30 PM.

[KevinG]

I had a boss (non-LDS) who obsessed over the shorts one of my coworkers wore.  They were no shorter than the shorts on other employees but she was a voluptuous, attractive woman.  It really bothered her until I told her the issue was his, and his own lusts.  She had nothing to be ashamed of.

After seeing the picture of this young woman and her outfit I think the testing center employee may have more to repent of than she ever did.

I almost socked a brother at church for suggesting my daughter should wear a less revealing top (at the age of 16).  Again it wasn't the clothing she was wearing that was different from the other girls.  She had developed early.

I lost my temper and wrote a note to the Bishop in confidence saying I could not be responsible for my actions if brother so-and-so could not keep his  eyes off of my daughters breasts.  The brother was quietly asked not to hang out in the building during Young Women's activities after that.

I've known several pretty girls who dressed no differently than their peers but who caught flak for being pretty.

[frankenstein]

Good point daddyg. Unfortunately some take Elder Oaks "walking pornography" statement to shift the the responsibility for wondering eyes and impure thoughts onto the person wearing the clothing.

Edited by frankenstein, 10 December 2011 - 11:03 AM.

[volgadon]

kolipoki09, on 09 December 2011 - 02:26 PM, said:

For those wanting to see the "offending outfit" in question, this was it. Shame on the Testing Center Gestapo.

Flagrantly, shockingly immodest! Enough to drive anyone wild with passion.

She ought to dress like this. Nothing else is modest enough.

[bluebell]

kolipoki09, on 09 December 2011 - 02:26 PM, said:

For those wanting to see the "offending outfit" in question, this was it. Shame on the Testing Center Gestapo.

Those aren't skinny jeans, they are normal jeans.  Someone should get a talking to and it shouldn't be this girl.

[bluebell]

frankenstein, on 10 December 2011 - 04:56 AM, said:

Good point daddyg. Unfortunately some take Elder Oaks "walking pornography" statement to shift the the responsibility for wondering eyes and impure thoughts onto the person wearing the clothing.

I think women do have a responsibility to be modest because of how dress can affect others.  I don't personally believe that Heavenly Father would care about modest clothing at all if immodesty didn't impact those who look at it.

But I do believe there is a difference though between trying to incite a purely sexual reaction with your body and just wanting to look attractive.  Girs (and boys) know what they are doing when they choose to wear certain things.  Being 'curvy' isn't an excuse to dress immodestly.

But it's true that curvy girls (which i am) have it much harder because regular clothes fit our bodies differently.  It's added responsibility that can't be ignored but at the same time, we still need to be able to leave the house in something other than baggy sweat pants and sweatshirts.  For a LONG time that's all i felt comfortable in because the attention i would get otherwise felt wrong-it really was a burden emotionally and physically.  As i grew up, and especially after i got married( and knew that i had a husband who would not hesitate to beat the crap out of anyone who go too "friendly"), i realized that there's a difference between immodesty and wearing clothes that fit.  I can control whether or not i dress immodestly-everything else is someone else's issue to control.

Daddyg-that guy sounds like a huge creep!

[Duncan]

If someone told me that my jeans were too revealing or immodest, I would kindly remove them right then and there and walk around in my long underpants