I have been bothered by the insistence of some EV's that we can have a personal relationship with Jesus. The scriptures state that we should have a fellowship with God and Jesus, but an relationship? It seems, at least to me, that this falls within blasphemy since it would be impossible for us to comprehend the nature and personality of Jesus and secondly, because we would need to have relationship not specifically to the son, but to our Father. In I Cor. 2:14 Paul states that, "The unbeliever(or natural man) does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." There are two assumptions that have to be made here. One, that we have the spiritual "necessities" to understand Jesus or God. And, two, should we seek after a personal relationship with Jesus when He tells us that we need to give all glory to the Father?
Bruce R. McConkie touched on this a few years back when he wrote in Sunstone 6:6/59 (Nov 81)
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"One such fad going around in the Church, he said, is the goal of developing a personal relationship with Christ. Noting that it was difficult to preach against such a doctrine, he explained that Jesus taught his followers to worship the Father, in his name, through the Holy Ghost. Thus one who has the "mind of Christ" will do what he did. If a special relationship is needed, it should be with the Father."
So, what exactly is our relationship with the son. My personal belief is that he is our mediator with the Father, but I seek a fellowship or at-one-ment with the Father based on the strength of the spirit and faith within me.
What is the opinion out there? I'd be interested in knowing how all feel about this.
Edited by Ron Beron, 25 November 2011 - 12:23 AM.
"Truth is enlightenment, and enlightenment is of God. Shedding light on what passes as truth is not only permitted; it is necessary, the highest calling."
I think it depends on what one means by "personal relationship". I can't think of anything more intimate than the relationship Christ holds out to us with the Atonement. Otoh, I heard some descriptions of Christ as more of a "buddy", descriptions definitely lacking in the awe that I think should be inherent in the respect we give to our God. I have wondered at times at the contrast because these individuals were also the ones who claimed LDS were bringing God down to man's level by our belief of being literal children of God even while they spoke or acted like Christ was at their beck and call or talked of him like he was the guy next door.
When you climb up a ladder, you...begin at the bottom...ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top...so it is with the principles of the Gospel--you must begin with the first...go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world. Joseph Smith
I think it depends on what one means by "personal relationship". I can't think of anything more intimate than the relationship Christ holds out to us with the Atonement. Otoh, I heard some descriptions of Christ as more of a "buddy", descriptions definitely lacking in the awe that I think should be inherent in the respect we give to our God. I have wondered at times at the contrast because these individuals were also the ones who claimed LDS were bringing God down to man's level by our belief of being literal children of God even while they spoke or acted like Christ was at their beck and call or talked of him like he was the guy next door.
Can a "personal relationship" be something we should seek? I can understand when people are moved by the earthly travail of Jesus on the cross and garden, but yet, if we are to accept the doctrine of our church then we have to accept the reality of a "cosmic" Jesus that is far removed from his corporeal existence and as such has little necessity for our personal "relationships". Instead, I think we need seek what McConkie said
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"Our relationship with the Son is one of brother or sister in the premortal life and one of being led to the Father by him while in this mortal sphere. He is the Lord Jehovah who championed our cause before the foundations of the earth were laid. He is the God of Israel, the promised Messiah, and the Redeemer of the world."
"By faith we are adopted into his family and become his children. We take upon ourselves his name, keep his commandments, and rejoice in the cleansing power of his blood. Salvation comes by him. From Creation's dawn, as long as eternity endures, there neither has been nor will be another act of such transcendent power and import as his atoning sacrifice."
"We do not have a fraction of the power we need to properly praise his holy name and ascribe unto him the honor and power and might and glory and dominion that is his. He is our Lord, our God, and our King."(bold mine)
"Truth is enlightenment, and enlightenment is of God. Shedding light on what passes as truth is not only permitted; it is necessary, the highest calling."
I have been bothered by the insistence of some EV's that we can have a personal relationship with Jesus. The scriptures state that we should have a fellowship with God and Jesus, but an relationship? It seems, at least to me, that this falls within blasphemy since it would be impossible for us to comprehend the nature and personality of Jesus and secondly, because we would need to have relationship not specifically to the son, but to our Father.
Hi Ron,
Interesting topic. Bold mine, when it comes down to it, it's impossible for me to fully comprehend the personality of anyone.. my wife included. I don't see any reason a charge of blasphemy need to made for the claim that a person has a relationship with Christ, simply because we don't have full understanding of Christ.
IMO, the notion of having a personal relationship shouldn't be unacceptable. Christ told the apostles in John 15, " Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. "
Though the address was direct to the apostles, it is an easy thing to understand that Christ was laying his life down for many beyond his direct audience. The apostles had been with him for quite some time.. and given their immediate reaction to what transpired shortly thereafter, they didn't seem to know him all that well themselves, so I don't think a special case for the failing to extend his terms to those beyond the immediate audience is out of line.
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In I Cor. 2:14 Paul states that, "The unbeliever(or natural man) does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." There are two assumptions that have to be made here. One, that we have the spiritual "necessities" to understand Jesus or God. And, two, should we seek after a personal relationship with Jesus when He tells us that we need to give all glory to the Father?
In specific, I don't see the relevance of the verse. It addresses those that are without belief. That being said.
I think you have to bear in mind Paul also said something to the effect that we see through the glass darkly. I think it was a metaphor of our inability to understand fully anything that is pure, such as the nature of Christ, but I don't think that means his nature is entirely imperceptible to us.
In your first paragraph, you point to the notion that we should seek a relationship with the Father, in preference to the Son. But the issues you have raised equally/if not more so apply to any relation with the Father, if you think about it.
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So, what exactly is our relationship with the son. My personal belief is that he is our mediator with the Father, but I seek a fellowship or at-one-ment with the Father based on the strength of the spirit and faith within me.
What is the opinion out there? I'd be interested in knowing how all feel about this.
Emphasis mine. He is my Savior, my brother and yes my even my friend. He has suffered, died and rose again out of love for all mankind, including me. I express my love towards him by trying to keep his commandments and following him as best I can.
I agree with Calmoriah, there may be some merit to promote a "Jesus is my bestest buddy" mantra and I think such a notion is very wrong thinking due to it's irreverance. This sort of idea, isn't something I haven't actually seen promoted in any EV church I have attended, but I think the perception of it has a good deal to do with sloganish type items that are designed to appeal to the "Christian" market.
I do view this relationship with Father different than what you have expressed, likely there is a theological difference at work. Or I may be misunderstanding you, I am not sure. To me the only thing that makes a relationship with the Father possible is through the righteousness imputed to us by Christ through the Spirit. As I understand it, it is Christ's mantle, if you will, of righteousness that he bestows on us, that makes us presentable to the Father. I don't think their is anything wrong with pursuing a relationship with the Father, far from it. I just think that such a relationship holds dependency on the righteousness of Christ and isn't something we can do on our own steam.
Again, I may be misunderstanding somethings you have said.
Hope you had wonderful Thanksgiving.
Mudcat
"Who said anything about safe? 'Course he isn't safe. But he's good. He's the King, I tell you." - Mr. Beaver in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe by C.S. Lewis
I have been bothered by the insistence of some EV's that we can have a personal relationship with Jesus. The scriptures state that we should have a fellowship with God and Jesus, but an relationship? It seems, at least to me, that this falls within blasphemy since it would be impossible for us to comprehend the nature and personality of Jesus and secondly, because we would need to have relationship not specifically to the son, but to our Father.
I disagree. My own experiences indicate that the better I know the Savior, the better I know the Father and understand His will. He should be our friend ~ and what relationship is truer and more intimate than that of a man who lays down his life for his friend? From Proverbs 18, "...there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother."
Mark E. Peterson (April 1982 GC) As Latter-day Saints, gathered tonight in many places, we joyfully bear record to all the world that Jesus of Nazareth is truly the Christ, our Savior, the divine Son of God. But He is more than that. He is our Creator, for He made all things both in heaven and earth. And He is even more yet. He is also our Friend. We worship Him, the Son of God. We obey Him, our Savior and Redeemer. We love Him, our gracious Friend.
Neal A. Maxwell (October 1981 GC) Whether descriptively designated as Creator, Only Begotten Son, Prince of Peace, Advocate, Mediator, Son of God, Savior, Messiah, Author and Finisher of Salvation, King of Kings—I witness that Jesus Christ is the only name under heaven whereby one can be saved! (See D&C 18:23.) I testify that He is utterly incomparable in what He is, what He knows, what He has accomplished, and what He has experienced. Yet, movingly, He calls us His friends.
Quote
In I Cor. 2:14 Paul states that, "The unbeliever(or natural man) does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." There are two assumptions that have to be made here. One, that we have the spiritual "necessities" to understand Jesus or God.
In my opinion, we can't progress without understanding God. While the natural man may be alienated from the workings of righteousness, under the influence of the Spirit, we all definitely have the capacity to understand God. Indeed, we must! Then there's this:
“If men do not comprehend the character of God, they do not comprehend themselves.”
( History of the Church, 6:303. )
Quote
And, two, should we seek after a personal relationship with Jesus when He tells us that we need to give all glory to the Father?
Bruce R. McConkie touched on this a few years back when he wrote in Sunstone 6:6/59 (Nov 81)
So, what exactly is our relationship with the son. My personal belief is that he is our mediator with the Father, but I seek a fellowship or at-one-ment with the Father based on the strength of the spirit and faith within me.
What is the opinion out there? I'd be interested in knowing how all feel about this.
Christ is both Father and Son. When He ransomed us, we became His seed. (Mosiah 15)
"...I say unto you, that all those who have hearkened unto their words, and believed that the Lord would redeem his people, and have looked forward to that day for a remission of their sins, I say unto you, that these are his seed, or they are the heirs of the kingdom of God. For these are they whose sins he has borne; these are they for whom he has died, to redeem them from their transgressions. And now, are they not his seed?"
What it boils down to for me is simply that Christ and the Father are unified in heart, mind, and purpose to the degree that a relationship with either naturally results in a relationship with both, whether or not we recognize that. To praise one is to praise both. To reject one is to reject both.
The McConkie quote was a public response to a private grievance (IMO) and on top of the unseemliness of it, fails to take the scriptures into account. Yes, Christ always points us to the Father but the Father also always points us to the Son! Almost every time the Father is on record, it's to redirect our attention to the Savior and command "Hear ye Him!" These mutually exalting witnesses are explained by the Savior numerous times in the scriptures - each member of the Godhead, elevates and testifies of the others.
Mitius imperanti melius paretur
The content or message of any medium is about as important as the stenciling on the casing of an atomic bomb. ~ Marshall McLuhan, The Medium is the Message
Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind
How does this not ultimately lead to a personal relationship?
When you climb up a ladder, you...begin at the bottom...ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top...so it is with the principles of the Gospel--you must begin with the first...go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world. Joseph Smith
Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind
How does this not ultimately lead to a personal relationship?
If I understand you correctly are you implying that Jesus is referring to himself or the Father? I think he was referring to the Father directly and, of course he is absolutely correct, but he also said we should love our fellow man as we do the Father. I don't how that is feasible.
"Truth is enlightenment, and enlightenment is of God. Shedding light on what passes as truth is not only permitted; it is necessary, the highest calling."
mercyngrace, on 25 November 2011 - 11:32 AM, said:
I disagree. My own experiences indicate that the better I know the Savior, the better I know the Father and understand His will. He should be our friend ~ and what relationship is truer and more intimate than that of a man who lays down his life for his friend? From Proverbs 18, "...there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother."
Mark E. Peterson (April 1982 GC) As Latter-day Saints, gathered tonight in many places, we joyfully bear record to all the world that Jesus of Nazareth is truly the Christ, our Savior, the divine Son of God. But He is more than that. He is our Creator, for He made all things both in heaven and earth. And He is even more yet. He is also our Friend. We worship Him, the Son of God. We obey Him, our Savior and Redeemer. We love Him, our gracious Friend.
Neal A. Maxwell (October 1981 GC) Whether descriptively designated as Creator, Only Begotten Son, Prince of Peace, Advocate, Mediator, Son of God, Savior, Messiah, Author and Finisher of Salvation, King of Kings—I witness that Jesus Christ is the only name under heaven whereby one can be saved! (See D&C 18:23.) I testify that He is utterly incomparable in what He is, what He knows, what He has accomplished, and what He has experienced. Yet, movingly, He calls us His friends.
In my opinion, we can't progress without understanding God. While the natural man may be alienated from the workings of righteousness, under the influence of the Spirit, we all definitely have the capacity to understand God. Indeed, we must! Then there's this:
“If men do not comprehend the character of God, they do not comprehend themselves.”
( History of the Church, 6:303. )
Christ is both Father and Son. When He ransomed us, we became His seed. (Mosiah 15)
"...I say unto you, that all those who have hearkened unto their words, and believed that the Lord would redeem his people, and have looked forward to that day for a remission of their sins, I say unto you, that these are his seed, or they are the heirs of the kingdom of God. For these are they whose sins he has borne; these are they for whom he has died, to redeem them from their transgressions. And now, are they not his seed?"
What it boils down to for me is simply that Christ and the Father are unified in heart, mind, and purpose to the degree that a relationship with either naturally results in a relationship with both, whether or not we recognize that. To praise one is to praise both. To reject one is to reject both.
The McConkie quote was a public response to a private grievance (IMO) and on top of the unseemliness of it, fails to take the scriptures into account. Yes, Christ always points us to the Father but the Father also always points us to the Son! Almost every time the Father is on record, it's to redirect our attention to the Savior and command "Hear ye Him!" These mutually exalting witnesses are explained by the Savior numerous times in the scriptures - each member of the Godhead, elevates and testifies of the others.
I can sympathize and somewhat agree with your primary point made in your first paragraph: "My own experiences indicate that the better I know the Savior, the better I know the Father and understand His will. He should be our friend ~ and what relationship is truer and more intimate than that of a man who lays down his life for his friend?" I think we relate to Jesus better because he is our mediator with the Father and because he actually lived among us, but I feel that if we seek a personal relationship than we also neglect the primacy of the Father Himself and ignore Jesus' admonition to worship the Father. Your quotes are apropos to the direction that we need to see Jesus as our friend and savior, but as the Almighty? I would have some problem with that. I suppose we could argue from the viewpoints of various GA's, but that would really put a stain on what is obviously felt by all of us without the debate. Personally, it is easier for me to see Jesus in a more personal way than my relationship with God, but like Mudcat states is that it only encourages me to understand my own relationship with God and Jesus vis-a-vis their own unique relationship.
"Truth is enlightenment, and enlightenment is of God. Shedding light on what passes as truth is not only permitted; it is necessary, the highest calling."
IMO, primacy is the concern of lesser beings (mortals). Christ taught that he who is greatest among us is our servant. In other words, the truly godly live to exalt others not themselves. This is the pattern of the Gods. Can we suppose then, that God would be angry with us for having a personal relationship with His only begotten son, whom He Himself exalted?
Also, if Christ is the God of the Old Testament, isn't He the one saying "Have no other Gods before me", anyway? Just a thought.
Mitius imperanti melius paretur
The content or message of any medium is about as important as the stenciling on the casing of an atomic bomb. ~ Marshall McLuhan, The Medium is the Message
mercyngrace, on 26 November 2011 - 05:36 AM, said:
How can there be primacy among two who are one?
IMO, primacy is the concern of lesser beings (mortals). Christ taught that he who is greatest among us is our servant. In other words, the truly godly live to exalt others not themselves. This is the pattern of the Gods. Can we suppose then, that God would be angry with us for having a personal relationship with His only begotten son, whom He Himself exalted?
Also, if Christ is the God of the Old Testament, isn't He the one saying "Have no other Gods before me", anyway? Just a thought.
Forgive me for not knowing Mercygrace, but are you LDS? The Mormon concept of God holds that while both are god they are unique and separate. For the most part LDS reject the orthodox view of the trinity as I do hold God is supreme and Jesus as his co-creator. Your query of hold Jesus as the main deity of the OT is best left for another thread, but your views are appreciated and well thought out.
I read your brief bio and now I am aware that you have a good understanding of our beliefs. Forgive me if you thought I was condescending.
Edited by Ron Beron, 26 November 2011 - 11:42 AM.
"Truth is enlightenment, and enlightenment is of God. Shedding light on what passes as truth is not only permitted; it is necessary, the highest calling."
Forgive me for not knowing Mercygrace, but are you LDS? The Mormon concept of God holds that while both are god they are unique and separate. For the most part LDS reject the orthodox view of the trinity as I do hold God is supreme and Jesus as his co-creator. Your query of hold Jesus as the main deity of the OT is best left for another thread, but your views are appreciated and well thought out.
Mercy is a member.
"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
If you have a relationship with Heavenly Father, then you have a relationship with the Son as well. They are one. To worship one is to worship the other; the same applies here. I'd like to think that I have a relationship with both. Not a perfect relationship, of course, but I see no reason why we can't have a relationship both with our Father and with our Savior.
"First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win." —Mahatma Ghandi
Forgive me for not knowing Mercygrace, but are you LDS? The Mormon concept of God holds that while both are god they are unique and separate. For the most part LDS reject the orthodox view of the trinity as I do hold God is supreme and Jesus as his co-creator. Your query of hold Jesus as the main deity of the OT is best left for another thread, but your views are appreciated and well thought out.
I read your brief bio and now I am aware that you have a good understanding of our beliefs. Forgive me if you thought I was condescending.
No worries, Ron.
Sorry for the delay - busy day here.
Yes, I'm LDS. Yes, I agree Christ and Elohim are distinct. However, Christ refers to the members of the godhead as "one" repeatedly and if they are one - as in the quintessential Zion relationship - then to know one is to know the heart, mind, and will of the other.
Take a look at John 14:6-11. I tried to paste the verses here but keep getting an error. Christ says that if we know Him, we know the Father and if we've seen Him (Christ), we've seen the Father.
Edited by mercyngrace, 26 November 2011 - 03:44 PM.
Mitius imperanti melius paretur
The content or message of any medium is about as important as the stenciling on the casing of an atomic bomb. ~ Marshall McLuhan, The Medium is the Message
mercyngrace, on 26 November 2011 - 03:37 PM, said:
No worries, Ron.
Sorry for the delay - busy day here.
Yes, I'm LDS. Yes, I agree Christ and Elohim are distinct. However, Christ refers to the members of the godhead as "one" repeatedly and if they are one - as in the quintessential Zion relationship - then to know one is to know the heart, mind, and will of the other.
Take a look at John 14:6-11. I tried to paste the verses here but keep getting an error. Christ says that if we know Him, we know the Father and if we've seen Him (Christ), we've seen the Father.
While I hold little stock in Paul's writings in general there is a passage that he wrote that says we can not have a personal relationship with Jesus because He is beyond our comprehension. While I understand that in theory I have difficulty with that admonition due to the very earthly mission of Jesus. I think that we are expressing the same thing here in substance, but somehow missing the deeper understanding of my message. While we are very much capable of understanding Jesus, his mission, his pre-existence, and his role in our salvation I feel uncomfortable trying to achieve a "buddy" status with him. I think that the best we can achieve is reminiscent in the sacramental prayer where we are reminded to remember him, not for a personal friendship, but to honor his sacrifice, his life's work and his eternal glory at the right hand of God. I think that sometimes we have a tendency to trivialize our relationship with deity, both God and Son.
"Truth is enlightenment, and enlightenment is of God. Shedding light on what passes as truth is not only permitted; it is necessary, the highest calling."
While I hold little stock in Paul's writings in general there is a passage that he wrote that says we can not have a personal relationship with Jesus because He is beyond our comprehension. While I understand that in theory I have difficulty with that admonition due to the very earthly mission of Jesus. I think that we are expressing the same thing here in substance, but somehow missing the deeper understanding of my message. While we are very much capable of understanding Jesus, his mission, his pre-existence, and his role in our salvation I feel uncomfortable trying to achieve a "buddy" status with him. I think that the best we can achieve is reminiscent in the sacramental prayer where we are reminded to remember him, not for a personal friendship, but to honor his sacrifice, his life's work and his eternal glory at the right hand of God. I think that sometimes we have a tendency to trivialize our relationship with deity, both God and Son.
While I would never use "buddy", "pal", or any other word I personally considered diminutive, I think it's important to recognize that Christ does make us His equals as joint-heirs. The difference between a buddy and a joint-heir is that the former epithet diminishes Christ while the latter exalts us. I'm all for the latter however, I don't believe avoiding a personal relationship with the Lord is a means to that end.
I completely understand your reticence to bring the Lord down to our level but I find an aloof and distant hero worship incompatible with the Savior whose most oft-recorded emotional expression is compassion and whose condescension was a necessary pre-requisite for succoring His people. This is a God who compares Himself to a mother hen and describes His own outstretched hands. His prophets rejoice in being "encircled in the arms of His love." He weeps over the lost. He implores us to "draw near unto [Him]" and promises that in return, "[He] will draw near unto [us]." Does this sound like a God who demands a respectful distance?
Not by my understanding.
Edited by mercyngrace, 26 November 2011 - 09:15 PM.
Mitius imperanti melius paretur
The content or message of any medium is about as important as the stenciling on the casing of an atomic bomb. ~ Marshall McLuhan, The Medium is the Message
I would agree with Mudcat and Mercy'n'grace. A personal relationship with him is something you want. What is meant by a personal relationship? It means that you pray to Father, and think of him as your Father, and treat him as you would your Father and your God. And we are supposed to be close to our fathers. =) And being close to Christ is to think of him similarly, though also as a brother. We are supposed to be close to our brothers as well =D.
I guess it all depends on what 'personal relationship' is, but to me... it means seeking to know him... and respect him... and love him... and to be like him, I guess.
So sort of 'personal relationship' like a family member... as you said, not 'buddy status', at least not for me =).
Best of Wishes,
No offenses intended,
-TAO
Edited by TAO, 26 November 2011 - 10:31 PM.
...my religion is built on the belief system and I believe that God will always find a way to make things just and fair even though it seems impossible. I accept this axiom without proof because I believe and hope that it must be true and in my heart I know it's true. That' s my testimony... -- Ajax18
As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows, cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the human kind. -- Cleveland Armory ... I have studied many philosophers and many cats. The wisdom of cats is infinitely superior. -- Hippolyte Taine
[On what God will say of one's own spiritual valiance]... I'd be content if He could just say to me, "Well, you weren't completely worthless." - Nathair
I am extremely grateful for and strongly believe in the personal relationship I have with my Heavenly Father and my savior, Jesus Christ. I honestly can't imagine how I would have made it through to today without my being aware of and having it. It is simple for me, a personal relationship exists for us because I know, I KNOW by the Holy Spirit, that both Father and Son are very aware of me. Little Me. They know, love and care for me personally. Truthfully, for each and every one of us. I do have a testimony, God knows me by name. He listens every time I talk. I am comforted by His love and because of Him I have the Holy Spirit to see me through all things. He knows my heart. It doesn't get much more personal than that.
Edited by Nominee, 27 November 2011 - 12:28 AM.
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool." ~ William Shakespeare
Not precisely on topic with the OP, but I have been somewhat bothered by recent "interviews" with Stake Presidents and other leaders where they ask me to share my testimony of Jesus. I first time I was asked this I was caught very off guard. My personal relationship has always been with my Father in Heaven. My Savior makes that relationship possible and it is through him that I may return to our Father, but the foundation of my relationship has always been with the Father.
I am curious if others have felt similarly or if I am just a little off...okay, more than normal "off".
Storm Rider
“When from Thy stern tutoring, I would quickly flee, turn me from my Tarshish to where is best for me. Help me in my Nineveh to serve with love and truth; not on a hillside posted, mid shade of gourd or booth. When my modest suffering seems so vexing, wrong, and sore, may I recall what freely flowed from each and every pore. Dear Lord of the Abba Cry, Help me in my duress to endure it well enough and to say, . . . 'Nevertheless.'” - Neal A. Maxwell
Storm Rider, on 27 November 2011 - 03:21 AM, said:
Not precisely on topic with the OP, but I have been somewhat bothered by recent "interviews" with Stake Presidents and other leaders where they ask me to share my testimony of Jesus. I first time I was asked this I was caught very off guard. My personal relationship has always been with my Father in Heaven. My Savior makes that relationship possible and it is through him that I may return to our Father, but the foundation of my relationship has always been with the Father.
I am curious if others have felt similarly or if I am just a little off...okay, more than normal "off".
I think if someone asked me to share my testimony during an interview, I'd ask "Why? Are you doubting?" and then laugh.
For me, the more profound and intimate a relationship is, the harder it is to put into words without sounding trite. For this reason, I tend to avoid bearing testimony unless the Spirit moves me to do so.
It's funny, I also have trouble buying greeting cards for my husband and parents - words are so utterly ineffective at conveying some truths.
Mitius imperanti melius paretur
The content or message of any medium is about as important as the stenciling on the casing of an atomic bomb. ~ Marshall McLuhan, The Medium is the Message
Storm Rider, on 27 November 2011 - 03:21 AM, said:
Not precisely on topic with the OP, but I have been somewhat bothered by recent "interviews" with Stake Presidents and other leaders where they ask me to share my testimony of Jesus. I first time I was asked this I was caught very off guard. My personal relationship has always been with my Father in Heaven. My Savior makes that relationship possible and it is through him that I may return to our Father, but the foundation of my relationship has always been with the Father.
I am curious if others have felt similarly or if I am just a little off...okay, more than normal "off".
As members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I think it's extremely important that we have a testimony of Him. I don't see why having a testimony of and relationship with Christ is such a problem. I think that to see it as a problem is, actually, a problem itself.
"First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win." —Mahatma Ghandi
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