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MDalby

Spirit Prison - Evil Spirits Can "Prompt" Us In Mortality?

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I have found the following quotes. One of which has passed by correlation and is in the PGP student manual. I know what the church says is the way to determine doctrinal teaching so you don't need to quote that but I found the following quotes interesting. I didn't think those in spirit prison had the ability to influence outside of that sphere and influence those in mortality.

Every person who desires and strives to be a Saint is closely watched by fallen spirits that came here when Lucifur [sic] fell, and by the spirits of wicked persons who have been here in tabernacles and departed from them. . . . Those spirits are never idle; they are watching every person who wishes to do right, and are continually prompting them to do wrong

(Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 7:239)

The spirits of the ancient Gadiantons are around us. You may see battle-field after battle-field, scattered over this American continent, where the wicked have slain the wicked. Their spirits are watching us continually for an opportunity to influence us to do evil, or to make us decline in the performance of our duties. And I will defy any man on earth to be more gentlemanly and bland in his manners than the master spirit of all evil. We call him the devil; a gentleman so smooth and so oily, that he can almost deceive the very elect. We have been baptized by men having the authority of the holy Priesthood of the Son of God, and consequently we have power over him which the rest of the world do not possess, and all who possess the power of the Priesthood have the power and right to rebuke those evil powers, and they obey not, it is because we do not live so as to have the power with God, which it is our privilege to have. If we do not live for this privilege and right we are under condemnation.

(Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 12:128)

It is written, "resist the devil and he will flee from you." Some people do not believe that there are any devils. There are thousands of evil spirits that are just as ugly as evil can make them. The wicked die, and their spirits remain not far from where their tabernacles are. When I was in England, twenty-eight years ago next June, I saw more devils than there are persons here to-day; they came upon me with an intention to destroy me; they are the spirits of wicked men who, while in the flesh, were opposed to God and his purposes. I saw them with what we call the spiritual eyes, but what is in reality the natural eye. The atmosphere of many parts of these mountains is doubtless the abode of the spirits of Gadianton robbers, whose spirits are as wicked as h***, and who would kill Jesus Christ and every Apostle and righteous person that ever lived if they had the power. It is by the influence of such wicked spirits that men and women are all the time tempted to tell little lies, to steal a little, to take advantage of their neighbor a little, and they tell us there is no harm in it. It is by the influence and power of evil spirits that the minds of men are prejudiced against each other, until they are led to do each other an injury, and sometimes to kill each other.

(Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, 11:84-85)

Any references that would counter these statements?

Thanks,

MD

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I have found the following quotes. One of which has passed by correlation and is in the PGP student manual. I know what the church says is the way to determine doctrinal teaching so you don't need to quote that but I found the following quotes interesting. I didn't think those in spirit prison had the ability to influence outside of that sphere and influence those in mortality.

Any references that would counter these statements?

Thanks,

MD

What do you seek to counter?

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I guess I am not trying to counter the statements. I am just trying to determine if this is consistent with other statements regarding the state of those that are in spirit prison.

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I have found the following quotes. One of which has passed by correlation and is in the PGP student manual. I know what the church says is the way to determine doctrinal teaching so you don't need to quote that but I found the following quotes interesting. I didn't think those in spirit prison had the ability to influence outside of that sphere and influence those in mortality.

Any references that would counter these statements?

Thanks,

MD

This reminds me of a statement in Joseph Smith's journal, about an incident during the Zions Camp march.

This is an entry in Joseph’s journal under the date of May 16, 1834. They were en route from Springfield to Dayton, Ohio.

“About nine o’clock . . . we came into a piece of thick woods of recent growth, where I told them that I felt much depressed in spirit and lonesome, and that there had been a great deal of bloodshed in that place, remarking that whenever a man of God is in a place where many have been killed, he will feel lonesome and unpleasant, and his spirits will sink.

“In about forty rods from where I made this observation we came through the woods, and saw a large farm, and there near the road on our left, was a mound sixty feet high, containing human bones. The mound was covered with apple trees, and surrounded with oat fields, the ground being level for some distance around.”

Levi Hancock, writing about two weeks after Joseph Smith, may also have referred to this incident when he recorded the following:

“I . . . remembered what he (i.e. Joseph Smith) had said a few days before while passing many mounds on our way that was left of us. Said he, ‘these are the bodies of wicked men who have died and are angry at us…“

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I didn't think those in spirit prison had the ability to influence outside of that sphere and influence those in mortality.

So, it sounds like you were thinking that if they are in spirit prison they are contained in some way?

I think the term 'spirit prison' gives the impression that they are in some kind of realm where they are locked up, away from where they can do mischief but I believe this is incorrect.

Brigham Young said the spirit world was here, all around us. That would mean that paradise and spirit prison are both here on earth. And it seems the spirits of the dead have more freedom than we might realize--good spirits and evil spirits--and if you've read much about hauntings etc, you'll understand what I mean. I suspect their ability to influence and cause trouble on earth won't be hampered until after the final judgment.

edited to add

I am just trying to determine if this is consistent with other statements regarding the state of those that are in spirit prison.
Maybe these statements you are thinking of are talking about after the final judgment? Edited by alter idem

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I have found the following quotes. One of which has passed by correlation and is in the PGP student manual. I know what the church says is the way to determine doctrinal teaching so you don't need to quote that but I found the following quotes interesting. I didn't think those in spirit prison had the ability to influence outside of that sphere and influence those in mortality.

Any references that would counter these statements?

Thanks,

MD

I don't know about statements. But I did find this:

D&C 129:1-3

1There are two kinds of beings in heaven, namely: Angels, who are resurrected personages, having bodies of flesh and bones—

2For instance, Jesus said: Handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

3Secondly: the spirits of just men made perfect, they who are not resurrected, but inherit the same glory.

And this:

D&C 131:4-9

4In answer to the question—Is not the reckoning of God’s time, angel’s time, prophet’s time, and man’s time, according to the planet on which they reside?

5I answer, Yes. But there are no angels who minister to this earth but those who do belong or have belonged to it.

6The angels do not reside on a planet like this earth;

7But they reside in the presence of God, on a globe like a sea of glass and fire, where all things for their glory are manifest, past, present, and future, and are continually before the Lord.

8The place where God resides is a great Urim and Thummim.

9This earth, in its sanctified and immortal state, will be made like unto crystal and will be a Urim and Thummim to the inhabitants who dwell thereon, whereby all things pertaining to an inferior kingdom, or all kingdoms of a lower order, will be manifest to those who dwell on it; and this earth will be Christ’s.

It would seem from this that the spirits of just people dwell in heaven, and heaven is not on this earth, at this time.

As for the spirits of the wicked, I don't know whether spirit prison is located on this earth or not.

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So, it sounds like you were thinking that if they are in spirit prison they are contained in some way?

I think the term 'spirit prison' gives the impression that they are in some kind of realm where they are locked up, away from where they can do mischief but I believe this is incorrect.

Brigham Young said the spirit world was here, all around us. That would mean that paradise and spirit prison are both here on earth. And it seems the spirits of the dead have more freedom than we might realize--good spirits and evil spirits--and if you've read much about hauntings etc, you'll understand what I mean. I suspect their ability to influence and cause trouble on earth won't be hampered until after the final judgment.

edited to add

Maybe these statements you are thinking of are talking about after the final judgment?

Thank you for the response. I knew the spirit world was here. But, I thought spirit prison was somehow restricted, especially in their influence in this mortal sphere. But, I guess I really had nothing to support that belief.

Edited by MDalby

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Thank you for the response. I knew the spirit world was here. But, I thought spirit prison was somehow restricted, especially in their influence in this mortal sphere. But, I guess I really had nothing to support that belief.

I think we all would be quite surprised upon learning exactly how busy all the spirits are on the other side. I speak of both sides, those of evil and of God. I agree whole-heartedly that spirit prison is not a realm, but is here, around us. Their actions have an influence and an impact on us.

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I think we all would be quite surprised upon learning exactly how busy all the spirits are on the other side. I speak of both sides, those of evil and of God. I agree whole-heartedly that spirit prison is not a realm, but is here, around us. Their actions have an influence and an impact on us.

I agree 100%. I wish I felt like I could elaborate.

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The "Spirits" that are involved in hauntings are satans followers from the pre-existance. They try to make it look like there are trapped souls haunting houses. This is done only to confuse us about the true Plan of Salvation. They make it seem that spirits are here to avenge their death or solve problems of their death, etc. We know that all spirits pass through to the Spirit World soon after death. There are a few instances where spirits may have returned, but in every case it is either an Angel or has some special permission from God.

We are not sure if Spirit Prision is actually a separate place, or just a term used for spirits that have not accepted the truth or are awaiting a proxy baptism, but still live among those in Spirit Paradise. I used to think they were separate places, but now I am more convinced that it is more of a "Status" than an actual separation.

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The "Spirits" that are involved in hauntings are satans followers from the pre-existance. They try to make it look like there are trapped souls haunting houses. This is done only to confuse us about the true Plan of Salvation. They make it seem that spirits are here to avenge their death or solve problems of their death, etc. We know that all spirits pass through to the Spirit World soon after death. There are a few instances where spirits may have returned, but in every case it is either an Angel or has some special permission from God.

We are not sure if Spirit Prision is actually a separate place, or just a term used for spirits that have not accepted the truth or are awaiting a proxy baptism, but still live among those in Spirit Paradise. I used to think they were separate places, but now I am more convinced that it is more of a "Status" than an actual separation.

It's always interesting to read the different theories people have on spirits, the afterlife, etc.

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