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Anijen

Praise To The Man!

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I remember my grandfather sharing with me a leaf that he stated that was from that Sacred Grove and the story of Joseph Smith that had occurred there. When he passed away, I was thankful to see that leaf on display at his funeral and I was able to share that story with my LDS wife. I'm sure she was impressed by it all. :air_kiss:

While I've always been raised Catholic, that was a special moment that I shared with my grandfather just for the fact that you could tell that it was important for him to tell me the story about the Sacred Grove..... :wub:

Edited by blueadept

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Two things I really like about the Catholic/Orthodox traditions are their deep respect for the divine feminine and the way they keep their forbearers alive in the form of the Saints.

Agreed. To conceive of the divine as only masculine seems absurd to me, too. And the great martyrs and heroes of Primitive Christianity are part of our (LDS) story, too, along with Abinadi and Parley Pratt. They deserve more discussion in our circles and classrooms.

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every-time I hear this song it makes me think I belong to the "Church of Joseph Smith of Latter Day Saints"

One need only contemplate the first two lines, which clearly define Joseph's role as prophet and his relationship to Jehovah to realize at once just how irrational the above conclusion is.

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I would like to add that "Praise to the Man" is my most favorite Hymn of all time! I cannot sing it enough. I sickens me when I hear someone who is supposed to by a LDS who is "uncomfortable" hearing this most spirit-filled hymn.

Take heart. You know the hymn is going to be around a long time when the Tabernacle Choir releases it as the title track of one of their most recent albums.

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"In Our Lovely Deseret" makes me want to heave.

I have to agree with you on that. If i despise anything, it's that song. ;)

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Last Sunday our ward choir sang "The Seer, Joseph the Seer" from the old hymn book. While I almost never think about internet anti's when I'm going about my Church duties, I confess that I had a little smile to myself as we sang the last page of verse 3.

Regards,

Pahoran

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Last Sunday our ward choir sang "The Seer, Joseph the Seer" from the old hymn book. While I almost never think about internet anti's when I'm going about my Church duties, I confess that I had a little smile to myself as we sang the last page of verse 3.

Regards,

Pahoran

"Let fiends now rage, in their dark hour--

No matter, no matter,

He is beyond their power,

No matter, no matter,

He is beyond their power."

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"Let fiends now rage, in their dark hour--

No matter, no matter,

He is beyond their power,

No matter, no matter,

He is beyond their power."

Yep, that's the one. I did think of a few internet fiends raging impotently about Joseph. Some of them in this very forum, in fact.

Regards,

Pahoran

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Praise to Jesus certainly but for Joseph? I understand the respect that Mormons have for Joseph Smith so I can appreciate their sincerity but I believe they are sincerely wrong just as they think that about me.

The first time I heard it sang (in Whittier, Ca. back in the late eighties, invited by a Mormon I had met at the street fair at the booth I was at) it gave me the creeps as I listened to the words of the song (it still does every time I hear it sung or read the words). It was during priesthood opening and they all stood up (I didn’t because I don’t believe it).

In my perspective to stand for Joseph and not Jesus (as I’ve never seen them do that) I think somewhat betrays their claim to believe in Jesus more than Joseph in that light. In our church tradition we stand during the reading of the Gospel because it is about Jesus. I think tradition is fine except when it is not based on the truth.

While Mormons are living out their faith in sincerity, I don’t see where their faith about Jesus or Joseph is sound Biblically but it is their right to believe as they see fit.

I learned from them on their own turf for years, so I think that I understand the whys and wherefores enough to make a proper judgment for myself on the matter (at least so far based on what I've heard from them in their own context).

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Praise to Jesus certainly but for Joseph? I understand the respect that Mormons have for Joseph Smith so I can appreciate their sincerity but I believe they are sincerely wrong just as they think that about me.

The first time I heard it sang (in Whittier, Ca. back in the late eighties, invited by a Mormon I had met at the street fair at the booth I was at) it gave me the creeps as I listened to the words of the song (it still does every time I hear it sung or read the words). It was during priesthood opening and they all stood up (I didn’t because I don’t believe it).

In my perspective to stand for Joseph and not Jesus (as I’ve never seen them do that) I think somewhat betrays their claim to believe in Jesus more than Joseph in that light. In our church tradition we stand during the reading of the Gospel because it is about Jesus. I think tradition is fine except when it is not based on the truth.

While Mormons are living out their faith in sincerity, I don’t see where their faith about Jesus or Joseph is sound Biblically but it is their right to believe as they see fit.

I learned from them on their own turf for years, so I think that I understand the whys and wherefores enough to make a proper judgment for myself on the matter (at least so far based on what I've heard from them in their own context).

I think your reaction coolroc is pretty natural. It's the same as i would expect someone to react if they had to listen to a hymn about Jesus Christ and they were thoroughly convinced that He was a fraud.

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Praise to Jesus certainly but for Joseph? I understand the respect that Mormons have for Joseph Smith so I can appreciate their sincerity but I believe they are sincerely wrong just as they think that about me.

The first time I heard it sang (in Whittier, Ca. back in the late eighties, invited by a Mormon I had met at the street fair at the booth I was at) it gave me the creeps as I listened to the words of the song (it still does every time I hear it sung or read the words). It was during priesthood opening and they all stood up (I didn’t because I don’t believe it).

In my perspective to stand for Joseph and not Jesus (as I’ve never seen them do that) I think somewhat betrays their claim to believe in Jesus more than Joseph in that light. In our church tradition we stand during the reading of the Gospel because it is about Jesus. I think tradition is fine except when it is not based on the truth.

While Mormons are living out their faith in sincerity, I don’t see where their faith about Jesus or Joseph is sound Biblically but it is their right to believe as they see fit.

I learned from them on their own turf for years, so I think that I understand the whys and wherefores enough to make a proper judgment for myself on the matter (at least so far based on what I've heard from them in their own context).

just makes you realize who's church it really is...

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just makes you realize who's church it really is...

Cheap shot.

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Cheap shot.

not intended to be a cheap shot at all, just voicing my opinion, I hate that song, and think if the church is Christ's then there should be only songs about him, not some guy

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just makes you realize who's church it really is...

Those who sing this song with agreement of it, have no doubt about who's church it is and who we worship and look to for a remission of our sins. It's only those who disagree with the church who seem to be unable to see past the subject of the song to recognize why we sing it.

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not intended to be a cheap shot at all, just voicing my opinion, I hate that song, and think if the church is Christ's then there should be only songs about him, not some guy

This song IS about Christ-it's about Christ's church being restored to the earth and how blessed we are to have it and how thankful we are to the man who was obedient to Christ's will in bringing it forth.

It's no different than the way a child honors and praises their parent for giving them life, even while the child knows that the blessings of life ultimately came from God. That God commands children to honor parents for a gift (life) which actually came from Him is actually a good way to understand why He would be pleased that His children would choose to honor a prophet for a gift (the gospel) which also actually came from Him.

In both instances, we honor the sacrifices and choices of the past which enable our lives to be blessed and prosperous today.

As an aside though, i have to ask, do you also object to the hymn 'love at home' being in the hymnbook? What about 'my country tis of thee' or 'america the beautiful' or 'God save the queen' being in there? There are actually many hymns in the hymnbook which are not about Christ specifically. Do you hate those as well?

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This song IS about Christ-it's about Christ's church being restored to the earth and how blessed we are to have it and how thankful we are to the man who was obedient to Christ's will in bringing it forth.

It's no different than the way a child honors and praises their parent for giving them life, even while the child knows that the blessings of life ultimately came from God. That God commands children to honor parents for a gift (life) which actually came from Him is actually a good way to understand why He would be pleased that His children would choose to honor a prophet for a gift (the gospel) which also actually came from Him.

In both instances, we honor the sacrifices and choices of the past which enable our lives to be blessed and prosperous today.

As an aside though, i have to ask, do you also object to the hymn 'love at home' being in the hymnbook? What about 'my country tis of thee' or 'america the beautiful' or 'God save the queen' being in there? There are actually many hymns in the hymnbook which are not about Christ specifically. Do you hate those as well?

point made....I still think that church is Joseph Smiths church and not Christs

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Romans 10:15

And how shall they preach except they be sent? As it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Praise to the men(and women)!

Thank you Jesus, Joseph, Peter, Abraham, Nephi, missionaries, member missionaries...

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point made....I still think that church is Joseph Smiths church and not Christs

Other than that song, what happens in the church on a regular enough basis to support your assessment? I would sincerely be interested in hearing your reasons.

Edited by bluebell

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We also have patriotic hymns, but we don't worship America.

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point made....I still think that church is Joseph Smiths church and not Christs

Point made ad nauseam

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Other than that song, what happens in the church on a regular enough basis to support your assessment? I would sincerely be interested in hearing your reasons.

I'm getting the impression fatherofone has not been to an LDS service in quite a while.

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I'm getting the impression fatherofone has not been to an LDS service in quite a while.

I go fairly regularly, I only attend sacrament meeting. I guess I just believe that if Joseph Smith did indeed restore the true church, that the church we currently attend is still true to what he restored, there is no new revelation or scripture, the members are all about themselves, and if Christ was ever involved with this church he has long since abandoned it.

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We also have patriotic hymns, but we don't worship America.

some do

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Other than that song, what happens in the church on a regular enough basis to support your assessment? I would sincerely be interested in hearing your reasons.

Hey BB. Long ago when I use to attend SM with my wife, I use to play this game in my head in counting how many times the name or Jesus (or Christ) came up in F&T meetings vs. the name JS. I felt I shouldn't count the obligatory (in the name of Jesus Christ) that accompanied the end of every prayer by every faithful member since that IMO was programmed into everyone. After a year of listening to F&T meetings as a non-member, the name of Joseph Smith came up much more frequemtly than the name of Jesus (or Christ). If I counted the ending of the prayer, it was essentially a draw in amount of time each name was used.

IMO, it's not difficult for a non-member to reach the wrong conclusions. The factor that non-members should consider though is what members tell them in that they do not put JS on the same pedestal as Christ.

My 2 cents

Edited by blueadept

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Hey BB. Long ago when I use to attend SM with my wife, I use to play this game in my head in counting how many times the Jesus (or Christ) came up in F&T meetings vs. the name JS. I felt I shouldn't count the obligatory (in the name of Jesus Christ) that accompanied the end of every prayer by every faithful member since that IMO was programmed into everyone. After a year of listening to F&T meetings as a non-member, the name of Joseph Smith came up much more frequemtly than the name of Jesus (or Christ). If I counted the ending of the prayer, it was essentially a draw in amount of time each name was used.

IMO, it's not difficult for a non-member to reach the wrong conclusions. The factor that non-members should consider though is what members tell them in that they do not put JS on the same pedestal as Christ.

My 2 cents

thank you for illustrating my point

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