67 replies to this topic

[Urloony]

There is a great thread that is now winding down and possibly close to deletion at CARM.  I wanted to thank Daniel McClellan publically for his contribution and responses.  While his posts caused the Carmites to spin and turn, it was a fascinating read and I know I’m not alone in saying I learned a lot and appreciate his effort there.

[Vance]

Urloony, on 21 June 2011 - 06:05 AM, said:

There is a great thread that is now winding down and possibly close to deletion at CARM.  I wanted to thank Daniel McClellan publically for his contribution and responses.  While his posts caused the Carmites to spin and turn, it was a fascinating read and I know I’m not alone in saying I learned a lot and appreciate his effort there.

WOW!!!!

MAK sure can send the antis into fits.

LOL!

[CV75]

Urloony, on 21 June 2011 - 06:05 AM, said:

There is a great thread that is now winding down and possibly close to deletion at CARM.  I wanted to thank Daniel McClellan publically for his contribution and responses.  While his posts caused the Carmites to spin and turn, it was a fascinating read and I know I’m not alone in saying I learned a lot and appreciate his effort there.

I only read the link -- is there further clarification that the "other gods" are not referring to the false gods of the false religions; that He is superior to these false gods, and that no false god is like Him, etc.?

[ChristKnight]

I'm definitely enjoying reading that thread.  Urloony and maklelan did a great job.  I just have one question (so far):

Aaronshaf states-"There is no Heavenly Grandfather", to which Daniel responds-"There was according to the earliest Israelite beliefs.".  I guess I"m issuing a friendly CFR, as I'd like to learn more about that.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

That was a great read.

[Mars]

ChristKnight:

Going out on a limb here...  'God Most High' was the chief God of all Gods.  He was El-Elyon, and His children were sometimes referred to as angels, but we would think of them as Gods.  Each nation had its own God, and for Israel, that God was Jehovah.  That's why, in my estimation, it was easy for the early Israelites to worship other deities who were essentially on the same 'rung,' so to speak, as Jehovah, but not Jehovah himself.

Maklelan, and others, are obviously *way* more versed in this stuff than me, but there's something to get started on.  If anyone has any corrections for me, fire away.

[Mars]

CARM has both Mormonism and Freemasonry in their 'Cults' section...  You'll pardon me if I skip out on the fun.

[Urloony]

CV75, on 21 June 2011 - 09:11 AM, said:

I only read the link -- is there further clarification that the "other gods" are not referring to the false gods of the false religions; that He is superior to these false gods, and that no false god is like Him, etc.?

Yes.  The issues presented primarily deal with the fact that the gods of the other nations were as real to the Israelites as Yahweh was to them.  Additionally as you point out, the context of Isaiah 43:10 identifies Yahweh in terms of incomparability to the other gods, not the only god in existence.

Edited by Urloony, 21 June 2011 - 11:38 AM.

[CV75]

Urloony, on 21 June 2011 - 11:30 AM, said:

Yes.  The issues presented primarily deal with the fact that the gods of the other nations were as real to the Israelites as Yahweh was to them.  Additionally as you point out, the context of Isaiah 43:10 identifies Yahweh in terms of incomparability to the other gods, not the only god in existence.

Thank you--

[TAO]

Hmmm... why'd they ban Mak?

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

TAO, on 21 June 2011 - 02:53 PM, said:

Hmmm... why'd they ban Mak?

Because he destroyed their arguments. They probably banned him because he told the truth about some of the lies they were spreading about Mak's position and education. Some of their arguments were of the worst kind. I did not see very many substantive posts. Granted I did not read the whole thread, but of the few I did read there was not really any compelling arguments. Perhaps Rob Bowman can go over there and teach them how to present an argument. Just because he as an EV and I think he presents some good cases for his POV.

Edited by Mola Ram Suda Ram, 21 June 2011 - 03:03 PM.

[volgadon]

Mak has been banned from CARM about as often as you have breakfast. They could never counter his arguments.

Edited by volgadon, 21 June 2011 - 04:30 PM.

[Flyonthewall]

I started reading that thread but found it interesting that the overwhelming majority of CARM posters paid little attention to the topic at hand, but were more interested in attacking the LDS faith.  Not surprising considering the history of the board though.
It is amazing what can be discovered about religion when pre-conceived notions are set aside to find out what was really being said.

[maklelan]

ChristKnight, on 21 June 2011 - 09:52 AM, said:

I'm definitely enjoying reading that thread.  Urloony and maklelan did a great job.  I just have one question (so far):

Aaronshaf states-"There is no Heavenly Grandfather", to which Daniel responds-"There was according to the earliest Israelite beliefs.".  I guess I"m issuing a friendly CFR, as I'd like to learn more about that.

El and Yahweh were originally considered separate deities, with El acting as the High God, and Yahweh as one of his sons. This is the situation in Deut 32:8-9, where Elyon (and epithet associated with El) divides up the nations to the sons of Elohim, with Yahweh receiving Israel.

[volgadon]

maklelan, on 21 June 2011 - 07:06 PM, said:

El and Yahweh were originally considered separate deities, with El acting as the High God, and Yahweh as one of his sons. This is the situation in Deut 32:8-9, where Elyon (and epithet associated with El) divides up the nations to the sons of Elohim, with Yahweh receiving Israel.

BTW, did you get my response to your message? I was without an internet connection for a few days.

[maklelan]

volgadon, on 21 June 2011 - 07:15 PM, said:

BTW, did you get my response to your message? I was without an internet connection for a few days.

I was just going to ask you about that. I haven't gotten a response yet. I think if you just hit reply to the email it sends it to the board, not to me.

[urroner]

I have captured the complete thread in a single PDF file as of 10 a.m. this morning.  I would have attached it, but it's 6MB long.  If anybody wants it, and it's a good read, very entertaining sometimes especially if you like seeing the ardent critics of the Church, in their attempt to rend Dan's arguments invalid, do the old soft shoe and quickly slide into use of ad hominems, building strawmen, or laying out some excellent bunny rabbit trails, please contact me at urroner1 at hot male hotmail.com.

[Pa Pa]

Urloony, on 21 June 2011 - 06:05 AM, said:

There is a great thread that is now winding down and possibly close to deletion at CARM.  I wanted to thank Daniel McClellan publically for his contribution and responses.  While his posts caused the Carmites to spin and turn, it was a fascinating read and I know I’m not alone in saying I learned a lot and appreciate his effort there.

I though they only hated me.  

[Rob Bowman]

Mola,

You wrote:

Mola Ram Suda Ram, on 21 June 2011 - 03:02 PM, said:

Because he destroyed their arguments. They probably banned him because he told the truth about some of the lies they were spreading about Mak's position and education. Some of their arguments were of the worst kind. I did not see very many substantive posts. Granted I did not read the whole thread, but of the few I did read there was not really any compelling arguments. Perhaps Rob Bowman can go over there and teach them how to present an argument. Just because he as an EV and I think he presents some good cases for his POV.

Thanks for that kind comment. I have now posted twice to that thread on CARM.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Rob Bowman, on 22 June 2011 - 10:40 AM, said:

Mola,

You wrote:



Thanks for that kind comment. I have now posted twice to that thread on CARM.

Cool. Your welcome too.