Why I Know

[Deborah]

As I was flipping through channels last night I came across something on David Koresh (Waco, Texas). It ended with saying that many of his followers still believe he will come back in 2012 and judge everyone.

As I pondered this I thought about Joseph Smith in comparison. Both men and their groups were persecuted and both were killed defending their faith. But what is different about them? The thing that came to mind was what they left behind. Even without a spiritual testimony of the restoration of the true church, I find many things logically that convince me it is true.

We read in D&C 68: 1 “My servant, Orson Hyde, was called by his ordination to proclaim the everlasting gospel, by the Spirit of the living God, from people to people, and from land to land, in the congregations of the wicked, in their synagogues, reasoning with and expounding all scriptures unto them.” Of note is the word reasoning. So in reasoning this I came up with two main points why I believe on a rational level that Joseph Smith was a true prophet and this church he established is the true church.

The first is the amount of new doctrine and scripture he gave us. And when saying “new” I mean it in the sense that it had not been taught for centuries, though clearly its evidence can be seen in the Old and New Testaments if one knows what to look for. D&C 67 tells us:

4And now I, the Lord, give unto you a testimony of the truth of these commandments which are lying before you.

5Your eyes have been upon my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and his language you have known, and his imperfections you have known; and you have sought in your hearts knowledge that you might express beyond his language; this you also know.

6Now, seek ye out of the Book of Commandments, even the least that is among them, and appoint him that is the most wise among you;

7Or, if there be any among you that shall make one like unto it, then ye are justified in saying that ye do not know that they are true;

8But if ye cannot make one like unto it, ye are under condemnation if ye do not bear record that they are true.

9For ye know that there is no unrighteousness in them, and that which is righteous cometh down from above, from the Father of lights.

No matter how many times people try to discredit Joseph, they cannot discredit in my eyes the doctrine and scripture he gave us. If he is not a prophet then the scripture and doctrine he gave us cannot be true, and yet it so conforms with what we already have in the Bible and clarifies and expands it and makes so much sense in the big picture that I can’t reconcile the new scriptures with the man whom the critics represent as some reprehensible con man.

The second point is the fact that despite the great persecution and almost extermination of the early saints, the Church has continued to grow and not only grow but prosper throughout the world. Because of it many nations of the earth are blessed just by having Priesthood and temples on their soil and many who have suffered have benefited greatly from the humanitarian efforts of the church.

The early saints made a great and beautiful city out of the mosquito infested swampland. They made the desert in the Utah valley blossom and prosper. Whatever they have touched through their industry and their faith they made beautiful. If by their fruits ye shall know them then the fruits of the church Joseph Smith established are evidence of its truth.

[Franktalk]

You are right, we are to judge by their fruits. And just what fruits does the Church have? The Church supports their fellow man by supplying food for the hungry, shelter for the homeless, and medicine for the sick. And the missionary work provides food for the soul of men. The Church supports the moral code of God and will even enter into unpopular waters to support those truths. But the best fruit is the connection that the members have with the Holy Ghost. The Spirit of God indwells in the members and directs the works of the Church. The members are the Church.

If Joseph Smith came back today how would the Church treat him? As a God or as a man? I say as a man. I know I would treat him as a man.

[bookofmormontruth]

Refreshing to see a pro Joseph Smith topic even though I am sure the thread will turn to an easy cheap shot bashing of the man that the faithless despise.

One of the first prophecies given to Joseph Smith continues to be fulfilled that his name would be spoken of for both good and evil. Also, love how today, we see those outside of the Church defending Joseph Smith for who he truly was, a Prophet of God and one of the most honorable men to ever live. My link

[Hughes]

As I was flipping through channels last night I came across something on David Koresh (Waco, Texas). It ended with saying that many of his followers still believe he will come back in 2012 and judge everyone.

As I pondered this I thought about Joseph Smith in comparison. Both men and their groups were persecuted and both were killed defending their faith. But what is different about them? The thing that came to mind was what they left behind. Even without a spiritual testimony of the restoration of the true church, I find many things logically that convince me it is true.

We read in D&C 68: 1 “My servant, Orson Hyde, was called by his ordination to proclaim the everlasting gospel, by the Spirit of the living God, from people to people, and from land to land, in the congregations of the wicked, in their synagogues, reasoning with and expounding all scriptures unto them.” Of note is the word reasoning. So in reasoning this I came up with two main points why I believe on a rational level that Joseph Smith was a true prophet and this church he established is the true church.

The first is the amount of new doctrine and scripture he gave us. And when saying “new” I mean it in the sense that it had not been taught for centuries, though clearly its evidence can be seen in the Old and New Testaments if one knows what to look for. D&C 67 tells us:

No matter how many times people try to discredit Joseph, they cannot discredit in my eyes the doctrine and scripture he gave us. If he is not a prophet then the scripture and doctrine he gave us cannot be true, and yet it so conforms with what we already have in the Bible and clarifies and expands it and makes so much sense in the big picture that I can’t reconcile the new scriptures with the man whom the critics represent as some reprehensible con man.

The second point is the fact that despite the great persecution and almost extermination of the early saints, the Church has continued to grow and not only grow but prosper throughout the world. Because of it many nations of the earth are blessed just by having Priesthood and temples on their soil and many who have suffered have benefited greatly from the humanitarian efforts of the church.

The early saints made a great and beautiful city out of the mosquito infested swampland. They made the desert in the Utah valley blossom and prosper. Whatever they have touched through their industry and their faith they made beautiful. If by their fruits ye shall know them then the fruits of the church Joseph Smith established are evidence of its truth.

If you would allow, let me sum up your reasons:

1) New revelation (ie scriptures)

2) Survival of the believers

3) Fruits of Joseph Smith

Unfortunately I disagree that these are "objectively" reasonable, and exclusive to Joseph Smith. Had David Koresh been allowed to continue, his followers would make the same "reasonable" arguments. Much the same as any charismatic religious leader of history.

Main reason Joseph Smith's religion doesn't ring true to me - The main focus is on Joseph Smith not Jesus.

Just look at your "reasons", they are all focused on Joseph Smith.

All I need is Jesus.

[thesometimesaint]

Hughes:

JS never claimed to be Jesus. None of the authors of the Bible claimed to be Jesus. So where does that leave you? No Bible nor Book of Mormon. No Prophets, nor Apostles.

[Franktalk]

All I need is Jesus.

So you disagree with Jesus.

John 14:26

King James Version (KJV)

26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

So are you filled and reject the Holy Ghost? Just asking.

[erichard]

... Both men and their groups were persecuted and both were killed defending their faith. ...

The film, "Waco: Rules of Engagement" claims that the government started the fire and shot anyone who tried to escape. But the government claimed otherwise: (quote:) "Former Senator John Danforth, under the direction of Acting Attorney General Eric Holder, conducted a 14-month, $17-million investigation that exonerated the government of any wrongdoing."

I do not know anyone who completely trusts much of anything that the government says or does. But there is the outside possibility they are correct. If they are correct, then Koresh was not killed but committed suicide.

On the other hand, Joseph knew when he returned to Nauvoo after starting out west that he would be killed.

Richard

[cinepro]

As I was flipping through channels last night I came across something on David Koresh (Waco, Texas). It ended with saying that many of his followers still believe he will come back in 2012 and judge everyone.

As I pondered this I thought about Joseph Smith in comparison. Both men and their groups were persecuted and both were killed defending their faith. But what is different about them? The thing that came to mind was what they left behind. Even without a spiritual testimony of the restoration of the true church, I find many things logically that convince me it is true.

It is interesting to compare different leaders of different religions. One of the dangers is that we might be inclined to focus on those things which give the advantage to our Prophet and make others look inadequate. For example, I suspect a discussion comparing Joseph Smith to L. Ron Hubbard started by a Scientologist might leave Joseph Smith looking like the lesser of the two.

Also, while I'm not arguing that Joseph Smith wasn't a Prophet, I will point out that it would be possible for someone to do all of those things (with similar "fruit") and still not be a Prophet. And it would be possible for a true Prophet to not have accomplished so much.

I will also share what is perhaps my favorite quote of all time from a defender of the faith on this board. In a discussion of the Prophet Emanuel Swedenborg, poster leeuniverse declared:

Boring.... Joseph's theology is the same as 100's of different individuals to various degrees of exactness.

That is perhaps one of the least boring things I have ever seen an LDS say about Joseph Smith.

Edited June 19, 2011 by cinepro

[Flyonthewall]

If you would allow, let me sum up your reasons:

1) New revelation (ie scriptures)

2) Survival of the believers

3) Fruits of Joseph Smith

Unfortunately I disagree that these are "objectively" reasonable, and exclusive to Joseph Smith. Had David Koresh been allowed to continue, his followers would make the same "reasonable" arguments. Much the same as any charismatic religious leader of history.

Main reason Joseph Smith's religion doesn't ring true to me - The main focus is on Joseph Smith not Jesus.

Just look at your "reasons", they are all focused on Joseph Smith.

All I need is Jesus.

Um...this is about why an individual believes Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God, so of course the "reasons" are going to be focused on Joseph Smith. I am sure that if anyone were to give their reasons why Moses was a true prophet of God, those reasons would be Moses centered.

The church that the Joseph Smith established/restored is Christ centered.

All throughout the scriptures God relied on prophets to lead his church/people. If all you need is Jesus, why did Jesus warn of false prophets and how to know them? If the role of prophets was done, why didn't Jesus just say "there will be no more prophets"?.

He didn't because the scriptures state that prophets are part of the foundation of HIS church, and the way to know them are by their fruits.

Deborah gave good examples of what fruits have been brought forth by Joseph and his efforts, thus using "reasoning" for her belief in Joseph, and not others who have made the claim.

Edited June 19, 2011 by Flyonthewall

[CV75]

1) New revelation (ie scriptures)

2) Survival of the believers

3) Fruits of Joseph Smith

1) New revelation (ie scriptures) all pointing the way to Christ

2) Survival of the Church of Jesus Christ, the faithful members of which are true believers

3) Fruits of Joseph Smith, which prepare the world for the Second Coming of Jesus Christ

They are all about Christ.

[Hughes]

Hughes:

JS never claimed to be Jesus. None of the authors of the Bible claimed to be Jesus. So where does that leave you? No Bible nor Book of Mormon. No Prophets, nor Apostles.

Didn't say JS was claimed to be jesus. My point is that the focus is on Joseph Smith and his org., not Jesus.

So you disagree with Jesus.

John 14:26

King James Version (KJV)

26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

So are you filled and reject the Holy Ghost? Just asking.

Nope, I don't disagree with Jesus, I worship him through the grace and power of the Holy Spirit.

Um...this is about why an individual believes Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God, so of course the "reasons" are going to be focused on Joseph Smith. I am sure that if anyone were to give their reasons why Moses was a true prophet of God, those reasons would be Moses centered.

The church that the Joseph Smith established/restored is Christ centered.

All throughout the scriptures God relied on prophets to lead his church/people. If all you need is Jesus, why did Jesus warn of false prophets and how to know them? If the role of prophets was done, why didn't Jesus just say "there will be no more prophets"?.

He didn't because the scriptures state that prophets are part of the foundation of HIS church, and the way to know them are by their fruits.

Deborah gave good examples of what fruits have been brought forth by Joseph and his efforts, thus using "reasoning" for her belief in Joseph, and not others who have made the claim.

Yes, she believes in Joseph.

And it's not clear the church Joseph Smith established is Christ centered.

1) New revelation (ie scriptures) all pointing the way to Christ

2) Survival of the Church of Jesus Christ, the faithful members of which are true believers

3) Fruits of Joseph Smith, which prepare the world for the Second Coming of Jesus Christ

They are all about Christ.

Unfortunately no.

1) Your opinion. I think it actually points to a different Christ, but that's my opinion.

2) Believers in Joseph Smith. Some survived, some didn't. No much different than any other group trying to survive (ie David Koresh's group).

3) Since it's Christ who said he'd build his church, nope. Christ prepares the world.

[Deborah]

Had David Koresh been allowed to continue, his followers would make the same "reasonable" arguments. Much the same as any charismatic religious leader of history.

Given the fact that those who slew Joseph thought it would be the end of Mormonism your argument doesn't hold. The whole point is that the church continued and even grew stronger after Joseph's death. What Joseph established in the name of Christ could not be killed and it rolled forth even stronger.

Edited June 19, 2011 by Deborah

[Deborah]

Didn't say JS was claimed to be jesus. My point is that the focus is on Joseph Smith and his org., not Jesus.

Except that it wasn't JS's organization. It was Jesus'. That's the whole point. Had it not been the Savior's it would have died out or dwindled with his death.

And it's not clear the church Joseph Smith established is Christ centered.

Clear to whom? I've never questioned that everything about the Church is Christ-centered.

3) Since it's Christ who said he'd build his church, nope. Christ prepares the world.

Indeed. And he does it through his living prophets.

[Deborah]

Also, while I'm not arguing that Joseph Smith wasn't a Prophet, I will point out that it would be possible for someone to do all of those things (with similar "fruit") and still not be a Prophet.

I might agree with you except about the new scripture. I've read many philosophical works but nothing that compares with Alma's great sermons or Sections 120 and 121 of the D&C.

Also I'd be interested in your ideas of someone who did the things Joseph did and wasn't a prophet.

[CV75]

I think it actually points to a different Christ, but that's my opinion.

Since the OP is about what one can say he knows, then it might be more effective to express what you accept as your knowledge, not your opinion.

[thesometimesaint]

Hughes:

It's not JS church. It is The Chuch of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Jesus the Christ set up an earthly organiztion during his mortal ministry; See Ephesians 4:11-13

11: And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12: For the aperfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the bedifying of the body of Christ:

13: Till we all come in the aunity of the faith, and of the bknowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Jesus the Christ restored that same Church through the instrumentality of Joseph Smith in 1830.

Edited June 19, 2011 by thesometimesaint

[Franktalk]

1) Your opinion. I think it actually points to a different Christ, but that's my opinion.

The old you guys worship a different Christ argument. I will tell you that the Christ I worship came to earth as a man. Suffered for the sins of the world. He did rise from the dead on the third day. He sits on the right hand of the Father. Now what Christ do you worship?

I have been through this many times. Please tell me what church you belong to so that I can point out how your Christ is different than other churches. After all if we are to compare churches let us do that. Are you ready to defend your church?

[Hughes]

Given the fact that those who slew Joseph thought it would be the end of Mormonism your argument doesn't hold. The whole point is that the church continued and even grew stronger after Joseph's death. What Joseph established in the name of Christ could not be killed and it rolled forth even stronger.

Did Koresh's beliefs die with him? According to you, they didn't. Argument stands.

Beyond that, the fact that something grows doesn't indicate it's truthfulness, we could both point to organizations that are obviously not of God, that prosper.

Except that it wasn't JS's organization. It was Jesus'. That's the whole point. Had it not been the Savior's it would have died out or dwindled with his death.

Clear to whom? I've never questioned that everything about the Church is Christ-centered.

Indeed. And he does it through his living prophets.

The argument that it wasn't JS's organization is based on what exactly?

If it was an organization based on Christ, then I wouldn't disagree with you, nor would the whole of Christ followers.

"Living prophets" who are LDS... I agree there are prophets, I disagree that they are LDS.

Hughes:

It's not JS church. It is The Chuch of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Jesus the Christ set up an earthly organiztion during his mortal ministry; See Ephesians 4:11-13

11: And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12: For the aperfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the bedifying of the body of Christ:

13: Till we all come in the aunity of the faith, and of the bknowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Jesus the Christ restored that same Church through the instrumentality of Joseph Smith in 1830.

Call it what you want, it's all based on one man's teachings. Without JS it wouldn't exist.

Anyone who isn't LDS understand that no restoration happened, and none was needed, because Jesus is building his church and has done so since he ascended.

The old you guys worship a different Christ argument. I will tell you that the Christ I worship came to earth as a man. Suffered for the sins of the world. He did rise from the dead on the third day. He sits on the right hand of the Father. Now what Christ do you worship?

I have been through this many times. Please tell me what church you belong to so that I can point out how your Christ is different than other churches. After all if we are to compare churches let us do that. Are you ready to defend your church?

That's exactly the point. What church I go to or anyone goes to is irrelevant. All that matters is relationship with Christ himself.

Edited June 19, 2011 by Hughes

[Franktalk]

That's exactly the point. What church I go to or anyone goes to is irrelevant. All that matters is relationship with Christ himself.

But you are so wrong. Different churches have different books in the Bible. Some churches allow gay Bishops. Some churches tell the priest they can't marry even though the Bible is clear on that point. But I guess those differences don't matter in your eyes because you have an agenda. We sure don't want facts to interfere with that agenda do we.

If you are not man enough to support your own beliefs why would I give anything you say any credibility.

[KevinG]

That's exactly the point. What church I go to or anyone goes to is irrelevant. All that matters is relationship with Christ himself.

The LDS Church has brought me closer to Christ than any other philosophy, religion or deonomination. In fact it was Christ who told me to become a Latter-day Saint.

[zerinus]

If you would allow, let me sum up your reasons:

1) New revelation (ie scriptures)

2) Survival of the believers

3) Fruits of Joseph Smith

Unfortunately I disagree that these are "objectively" reasonable, and exclusive to Joseph Smith. Had David Koresh been allowed to continue, his followers would make the same "reasonable" arguments. Much the same as any charismatic religious leader of history.

Main reason Joseph Smith's religion doesn't ring true to me - The main focus is on Joseph Smith not Jesus.

Just look at your "reasons", they are all focused on Joseph Smith.

All I need is Jesus.

Matthew 10

:

40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Luke 10

:

16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

John 13

:

20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

If you really believed in Jesus, you would believe in him whom He has sent. By rejecting Joseph Smith, you are rejecting Jesus Who sent him.

Didn't say JS was claimed to be jesus. My point is that the focus is on Joseph Smith and his org., not Jesus.

The focus of the thread is him whom Jesus has sent. By rejecting and despising him, you are rejecting and despising Jesus.

Nope, I don't disagree with Jesus, I worship him through the grace and power of the Holy Spirit.

If you did, you would also accept and honor those whom He has sent. By rejecting them, you are rejecting and dishonoring Jesus.

Edited June 19, 2011 by zerinus

[thesometimesaint]

Hughes:

It matters a greeat deal which church you go to. I go to the one and only that has the Authority from God.

[jadams_4242]

As I was flipping through channels last night I came across something on David Koresh (Waco, Texas). It ended with saying that many of his followers still believe he will come back in 2012 and judge everyone.

As I pondered this I thought about Joseph Smith in comparison. Both men and their groups were persecuted and both were killed defending their faith. But what is different about them? The thing that came to mind was what they left behind. Even without a spiritual testimony of the restoration of the true church, I find many things logically that convince me it is true.

We read in D&C 68: 1 “My servant, Orson Hyde, was called by his ordination to proclaim the everlasting gospel, by the Spirit of the living God, from people to people, and from land to land, in the congregations of the wicked, in their synagogues, reasoning with and expounding all scriptures unto them.” Of note is the word reasoning. So in reasoning this I came up with two main points why I believe on a rational level that Joseph Smith was a true prophet and this church he established is the true church.

The first is the amount of new doctrine and scripture he gave us. And when saying “new” I mean it in the sense that it had not been taught for centuries, though clearly its evidence can be seen in the Old and New Testaments if one knows what to look for. D&C 67 tells us:

How do i know js was a prophet and thru him the "truth" was restored? let me count the ways.... was he perfect? of course not... but he did restore the truths the world has today in order to close the final chapters in scriptorial history...

No matter how many times people try to discredit Joseph, they cannot discredit in my eyes the doctrine and scripture he gave us. If he is not a prophet then the scripture and doctrine he gave us cannot be true, and yet it so conforms with what we already have in the Bible and clarifies and expands it and makes so much sense in the big picture that I can’t reconcile the new scriptures with the man whom the critics represent as some reprehensible con man.

The second point is the fact that despite the great persecution and almost extermination of the early saints, the Church has continued to grow and not only grow but prosper throughout the world. Because of it many nations of the earth are blessed just by having Priesthood and temples on their soil and many who have suffered have benefited greatly from the humanitarian efforts of the church.

The early saints made a great and beautiful city out of the mosquito infested swampland. They made the desert in the Utah valley blossom and prosper. Whatever they have touched through their industry and their faith they made beautiful. If by their fruits ye shall know them then the fruits of the church Joseph Smith established are evidence of its truth.

[zerinus]

That's exactly the point. What church I go to or anyone goes to is irrelevant. All that matters is relationship with Christ himself.

It makes a big difference which church you go to:

Acts 2

:

47 And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

If you are not gathering in with God's only true Church, you are not "such as should be saved".

1 Corinthians 12

:

28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

God's true Church is characterized by the possession all of those spiritual gifts, callings, and officers. If your church does not have them, then it is not God's only true Church, and you cannot be saved by being a member of that church.

Your real difficulty is that you believe in an apostate religion. Salvation can only be found in God's true Church restored in the Latter days. And you cannot accept that without first rejecting the Apostate religion which you already believe in.

[Hughes]

But you are so wrong. Different churches have different books in the Bible. Some churches allow gay Bishops. Some churches tell the priest they can't marry even though the Bible is clear on that point. But I guess those differences don't matter in your eyes because you have an agenda. We sure don't want facts to interfere with that agenda do we.

If you are not man enough to support your own beliefs why would I give anything you say any credibility.

Different churches (or groups of people) have different beliefs or doctrines. Yes I agree. And Christ can and does reach people despite the many differences among people groups. The emphasis of the LDS on theirs being the only true "restored" church is evidence against them. Christ came to save the lost, not to build temples to impress men.

The LDS Church has brought me closer to Christ than any other philosophy, religion or deonomination. In fact it was Christ who told me to become a Latter-day Saint.

Interesting, but not compelling to me.

Matthew 10

:

40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Luke 10

:

16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

John 13

:

20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

If you really believed in Jesus, you would believe in him whom He has sent. By rejecting Joseph Smith, you are rejecting Jesus Who sent him.

The focus of the thread is him whom Jesus has sent. By rejecting and despising him, you are rejecting and despising Jesus.

If you did, you would also accept and honor those whom He has sent. By rejecting them, you are rejecting and dishonoring Jesus.

And there in lies the crux of the issue for you. Joseph Smith. Thus is the focus of the LSD church.

For me it's Christ and him crucified.

Hughes:

It matters a greeat deal which church you go to. I go to the one and only that has the Authority from God.

Every follower of Christ has the same authority of God.

It makes a big difference which church you go to:

Acts 2

:

47 And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

If you are not gathering in with God's only true Church, you are not "such as should be saved".

1 Corinthians 12

:

28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

God's true Church is characterized by the possession all of those spiritual gifts, callings, and officers. If your church does not have them, then it is not God's only true Church, and you cannot be saved by being a member of that church.

Your real difficulty is that you believe in an apostate religion. Salvation can only be found in God's true Church restored in the Latter days. And you cannot accept that without first rejecting the Apostate religion which you already believe in.

Cool. I guess I will just continue to bask in the wonder and power of God. Since I don't believe in a powerless Christ, but one that is powerful enough to guard his teachings from apostates.