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Rob Bowman

It'S Too Sacred

168 posts in this topic

Let me give you a different answer.

Most members of the Church hold very sacred their experiences within the Temple. Those who come out of the LDS faith discard the sacredness to make public the rituals that go on. The problem with this is that when St. Cyril of Jerusalem described the Baptismal rite (Washing and Anointing), it was a great mystery and it was very sacred. This rite was done in secret as to being for the person and the person only. Here, they were to denounce Satan outside the vestibule of the Baptistry (outer chambers) and then proclaim The Father Son and Holy Spirit as part of their faith confession.

Things I personally hold sacred that I will never publicize because the world just does not need to know those things.

Personal prayers and how I communicate with my Heavenly Father. Most members of the Church agree that such prayers are very personal and very sacred to them.

Patriartichal Blessings are personal scriptural revelations to the individual alone and not to be shared with everyone.

Family prayers, the things my family pray about, issues we are facing, and the struggles we are enduring is not something that needs public audience.

Personal revelation in order to fulfill callings within the Church and as a Father and Husband need not a public audience.

If you disagree that these should not be held sacred, then I would like you to publish your most intimate prayers to Heavenly Father first.

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It's not that non-LDS don't have a "sense of the sacred". It's just that many don't believe the LDS Temple is sacred. Just the opposite, in the case of many anti-Mormons. And I think they are afraid if they show respect for members who believe it's sacred, they would be encouraging them in a very wrong belief.

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It's not that non-LDS don't have a "sense of the sacred". It's just that many don't believe the LDS Temple is sacred. Just the opposite, in the case of many anti-Mormons. And I think they are afraid if they show respect for members who believe it's sacred, they would be encouraging them in a very wrong belief.

Libs,

If Jesus Christ himself appeared to you while you were praying and he said to you that your sins are forgiven and that the LDS Church is true. I mean really phyiscally appeared to you.

Would this event be Sacred? Would you publish to the world that you personally say the Resurrected Christ, or would you keep that part secret and sacred so that people would not mock and ridicule you?

It is a very honest direct question.

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Libs,

If Jesus Christ himself appeared to you while you were praying and he said to you that your sins are forgiven and that the LDS Church is true. I mean really phyiscally appeared to you.

Would this event be Sacred? Would you publish to the world that you personally say the Resurrected Christ, or would you keep that part secret and sacred so that people would not mock and ridicule you?

It is a very honest direct question.

I would like to answer this question, too. I would tell others about this experience ONLY IF the Lord commanded me to do this.

Otherwise, only few would know about this.

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Joseph Smith revealed what he did to the world to move the church forward and to establish the nature of God and Heaven. Otherwise he was very careful who he shared experiences with. The fact that others may have taken those experiences and talked about them is a different matter and one which often brought persecution on the church.

I have seen personal experiences some have shared here mocked and denied as coming from God. So why would I want to share anything? I have told classes I taught or individuals I know certain experiences in the context of a discussion and when moved on to do so. Otherwise they remain in my own store of personal testimony building experiences.

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Bill,

You didn't address the question.

Matt 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Matt 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

2Cor 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

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Mola,

You wrote:

I have no idea what you are talking about.

I explained in detail what I'm talking about in the first post. Are you saying you didn't understand the question or that you don't think posters in this forum have made the statements I mentioned?

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On the subject of the temple, we hold temple prep classes which are a guide to first timers on what to expect. The rituals themselves are not discussed with good reason. I just went this morning and was struck with the solemn nature of not discussing certain things and how I would not want to be in the shoes of one who does reveal such things they covenant with God not to reveal.

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BOMT,

You wrote:

Maybe for starters. If you want to be taken as "sincere" with your questions and have some resemblance of respect for those who take the things of G-d as sacred.

It would probably be a good idea on a "Mormon Dialogue & Discussion Board" to stop referring to the sacredness of the Lord's Temple to "LDS temple secrets".

Just to let you know, I'm not going to bother with people who keep questioning or challenging my sincerity, especially for trivial reasons.

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Alla,

You wrote:

I can discuss with you non-ritual matters. What would you like to know? And one more question - WHY do you want to know?

Well, for example, I would like to know why Joseph Smith gave a detailed description of his experience of seeing the risen Jesus, but virtually no LDS apostles or prophets since then have reported such experiences. And I want to know because this seems to be a discrepancy worth examining. One explanation I have been given is that the LDS apostles have had such experiences but don't talk about them because they are "too sacred." But that didn't stop Joseph Smith from telling about his experience, so I don't buy that explanation (it would imply that their experience was more sacred than Joseph's, for one thing!). How about you?

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Mola,

You wrote:

I explained in detail what I'm talking about in the first post. Are you saying you didn't understand the question or that you don't think posters in this forum have made the statements I mentioned?

I don't understand what you were saying in the first post.

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SGW,

You wrote:

Let me give you a different answer.... Things I personally hold sacred that I will never publicize because the world just does not need to know those things. Personal prayers and how I communicate with my Heavenly Father. Most members of the Church agree that such prayers are very personal and very sacred to them....

None of this answers my question. Here, I'll make it even easier. Are all things that are sacred to be kept secret, or not?

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Considering how some people have chosen to show their lack of respect for our beliefs, I think we are justified in over using it occasionally...

Pearls - swine and all...

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SGW,

You wrote:

Libs,

If Jesus Christ himself appeared to you while you were praying and he said to you that your sins are forgiven and that the LDS Church is true. I mean really phyiscally appeared to you.

Would this event be Sacred? Would you publish to the world that you personally say the Resurrected Christ, or would you keep that part secret and sacred so that people would not mock and ridicule you?

It is a very honest direct question.

Joseph Smith told about his experience seeing Jesus. Was he wrong to do so?

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SGW,

You wrote:

Joseph Smith told about his experience seeing Jesus. Was he wrong to do so?

Nope.

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Mola,

You wrote:

I don't understand what you were saying in the first post.

Okay, let's go with the simpler question. Are all things that are "sacred" to be kept secret, or not?

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Mola,

You wrote:

Okay, let's go with the simpler question. Are all things that are "sacred" to be kept secret, or not?

SGW,

You wrote:

None of this answers my question. Here, I'll make it even easier. Are all things that are sacred to be kept secret, or not?

hmm, it depends on what it is. Like the sacrament is sacred but it is definatly not secret.

So that would be a "No".

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As I said above "Joseph Smith revealed what he did to the world to move the church forward and to establish the nature of God and Heaven. Otherwise he was very careful who he shared experiences with. The fact that others may have taken those experiences and talked about them is a different matter and one which often brought persecution on the church."

The nature of God is accepted now by the members of the church and Joseph Smith's testimony is given on that. Modern prophets and Apostles have actually said many things that allude to a personal knowledge of the Savior, but as in the Parables of old they are only for the faithful to understand and hear.

Deborah now speaks for me.

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I'm sorry to say that so far no one has addressed the issue I raised. The issue has to do with the disparity between my being told, by Mormons in this forum, that it is only because the temple ceremonies are sacred rituals that they are not to be discussed publicly (not merely because they are sacred [secret?]), and my being told, also by Mormons in this forum, that various non-ritual matters are not discussed publicly because they are too sacred.

I could be missing something; but I can't see the "disparity" you are talking about. Why can't some personal (non-ritual) experiences be too sacred to discuss publicly; and some "ritual" practices to be too sacred to discuss publicly as well? Why do you see a "disparity" between the two? Why can't they both be true at the same time?

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I'm sorry to say that so far no one has addressed the issue I raised. The issue has to do with the disparity between my being told, by Mormons in this forum, that it is only because the temple ceremonies are sacred rituals that they are not to be discussed publicly (not merely because they are sacred), and my being told, also by Mormons in this forum, that various non-ritual matters are not discussed publicly because they are too sacred.

Holy Cow!!! You mean there is disparity between what different members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints say? Golly, why can't we all just get on the same page and be good little automatons like we're supposed to be??? Guess we're still working to become one.

Say Rob, since you apparently are not interested in answering any of the questions posed to you thus far, perhaps you can answer this one: Does every one in your congregation (assuming you attend some sort of church service) have the same opinion about every issue raised in discussions with other members?

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Your question actually goes back to my last significant point in the Ritual Secrets thread. If these things are discussed overmuch, and especially in the same breath or thought as carnal things, we lose much of our ability to be transformed by them. I won't wear a t-shirt with a picture of Christ on the cross or in Gethsemane and I rarely discuss such topics unless everyone present is thinking about sacred things. It also helps to have some kind of ritual before and after the discussion, even one as simple as a verbal indication that the topic is switching.

Yours under the boundary oaks,

Nathair /|\

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I agree with those who cited the words of Jesus Christ when he said not to cast pearls before swine. It is very upsetting to share a spiritual experience and have it ridiculed or mocked. I believe that is why many people, including apostles might choose not to share personal spiritual experiences. And I think that is why we don't discuss the temple ordinances in detail. I don't think it's because they are 'too sacred', but because when you share something, you have no control over how it will be perceived or handled.

I also think that when Christ said not to cast pearls before swine, he was also warning us about sharing things that another is not ready to hear--hence their treating things lightly or ridiculing them.

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BOMT,

You wrote:

Just to let you know, I'm not going to bother with people who keep questioning or challenging my sincerity, especially for trivial reasons.

Then put the wax away.

Is it too much (being on a Mormon dialogue & discussion board) to avoid using the description of "secret" for what we consider as sacred? If it is too much, you might be playing at the wrong gig.

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Libs,

If Jesus Christ himself appeared to you while you were praying and he said to you that your sins are forgiven and that the LDS Church is true. I mean really phyiscally appeared to you.

Would this event be Sacred? Would you publish to the world that you personally say the Resurrected Christ, or would you keep that part secret and sacred so that people would not mock and ridicule you?

It is a very honest direct question.

I would share it sparingly, to those I could trust, or as the Spirit lead me to share. I am not saying that sacred things should, necessarily, be shared with the whole world. That is not my belief, and was not my point.

Let me ask you a question. Would you respect and hold in reverence rituals that you believed to be satanic? (And, please, I am NOT saying that *I* believe the Temple rituals are satanic)...but, there are those who do believe that, and believe they are very harmful, which is part of the reason they feel led to expose them.

My point was, not that there is nothing sacred that should be held close to the breast, but that there are some big differences in belief about what, exactly, IS sacred and what is not. That's where the problem lies, IMHO. Not in the question of whether or not something sacred should be "secret". We keep things which are sacred to us, somewhat private, because we don't want sacred things mocked, by those who don't believe they are sacred.

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