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AeonJ

Judas Iscariot

42 posts in this topic

Matthew 27:

3¶Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

4Saying, I have sinned in that I have abetrayed the innocent bblood. And they said, What is that to us? csee thou to that.

5And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went aand bhanged himself.

just curious.

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Matthew 27:

3¶Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

4Saying, I have sinned in that I have abetrayed the innocent bblood. And they said, What is that to us? csee thou to that.

5And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went aand bhanged himself.

just curious.

I think that making a statement with specificity about that is "above my paygrade."

I would hope that he has obtained forgiveness, but...

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I believe that after suffering in Outer Darkness (see Alma) until the Second Resurrection, he will be forgiven and inherit Telestial Glory.

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I believe after suffering in Outer Darkness (see Alma) until the Second Resurrection, he will be forgiven and inherit Telestial Glory.

Why would he be punished so when he was such a necessary part of how everything played out. Plus, I really think we are give of such a fraction of what the relationship was between Jesus and Judas. My personal question has been; what if Jesus ask him to be the betrayer? It would make sense then why he hung himself. Just some thoughts.

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Why would he be punished so when he was such a necessary part of how everything played out. Plus, I really think we are give of such a fraction of what the relationship was between Jesus and Judas. My personal question has been; what if Jesus ask him to be the betrayer? It would make sense then why he hung himself. Just some thoughts.

Because he betrayed innocent blood, and not any blood, the blood of God. There was no clandestine plan between Jesus and Judas for Judas to betray Him., The fact that Judas hung himself is actually an argument against what you are pondering.

At least I don't consign Judas to a permanent never-ending fire burning hell like most Christians.

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David Daube made a compelling case that Matthew presents Judas as having repented and acheived forgiveness.

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Why would he be punished so when he was such a necessary part of how everything played out. Plus, I really think we are give of such a fraction of what the relationship was between Jesus and Judas. My personal question has been; what if Jesus ask him to be the betrayer? It would make sense then why he hung himself. Just some thoughts.

I agree 100% You should check out Frank Judd's article about Judas in BYU Studies

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Because he betrayed innocent blood, and not any blood, the blood of God. There was no clandestine plan between Jesus and Judas for Judas to betray Him., The fact that Judas hung himself is actually an argument against what you are pondering.

At least I don't consign Judas to a permanent never-ending fire burning hell like most Christians.

Lord, Is it I? Why did the Apostles ask that if they would've suspected Judas? I, too, don't think Judas is a SOP

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Because he betrayed innocent blood, and not any blood, the blood of God. There was no clandestine plan between Jesus and Judas for Judas to betray Him., The fact that Judas hung himself is actually an argument against what you are pondering.

At least I don't consign Judas to a permanent never-ending fire burning hell like most Christians.

The betraying of innocent blood, I very much agree with. But the betrayal had to happen. Jesus had to be given up, and I feel Jesus himself knew it.

Judas hanging himself, (again my opinion) was out of guilt no matter what the situation. And I love it that no one knows what was in Judas’ heart but the Father and he is the judge.

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The betraying of innocent blood, I very much agree with. But the betrayal had to happen. Jesus had to be given up, and I feel Jesus himself knew it.

Judas hanging himself, (again my opinion) was out of guilt no matter what the situation. And I love it that no one knows what was in Judas’ heart but the Father and he is the judge.

Jesus was very clear about Judas' heart.

Are you saying that because something "has to happen" the person perpetuating a sin that made it happen is somehow off the hook?

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Jesus was very clear about Judas' heart.

Are you saying that because something "has to happen" the person perpetuating a sin that made it happen is somehow off the hook?

This is why we don't know, or I don't know anyways, Was Jesus saying "Father forgive them for they know not what they do?" to Judas also?, who knows? I don't see the atonement as a sin

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This is why we don't know, or I don't know anyways, Was Jesus saying "Father forgive them for they know not what they do?" to Judas also?, who knows? I don't see the atonement as a sin

Whoa, where did I say or imply the Atonement was a sin?

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Are you saying that because something "has to happen" the person perpetuating a sin that made it happen is somehow off the hook?

Absolutely not. We all have to take responsibility for our actions/sins and whatever consequences are ours. Then again that is where grace comes in.

But what I’m saying is the information on Judas and his relationship with Jesus is so brief, and history wise I don’t know of any modern revelation on the subject. If he was so evil and Jesus did discern what was in his heart, why in the world would he have chosen Judas as a apostle? I really think things were going on that we have no idea of.

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I think the Bible shows that Judas did what He was predestined by God to do, but yet is still subject to punishment because of His sin.

John 17:12

12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

Matthew 26:23-25

23 Jesus replied, “The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me. 24 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.”

25 Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, “Surely you don’t mean me, Rabbi?”

Jesus answered, “You have said so.”

I think God did what He did with the Pharoah, He hardened Judas heart and used Him as a vessel of destruction to do His greater will, Romans 9 has this painted all over it.

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Too far above my pay grade. But I do believe that unless we repents we too will suffer to the utmost Farthing.

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"Are you saying that because something "has to happen" the person perpetuating a sin that made it happen is somehow off the hook? "

I interpreted the "something" as the atonement of Christ and Judas "perpetuated" the atonement getting into a deal with the Roman Hoy Faloy's and the sin was the atonement and then you are saying that what he did was bad so that is how I got that! Tell me I am wrong about you thinking the atonement is a sin!

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I think the Bible shows that Judas did what He was predestined by God to do, but yet is still subject to punishment because of His sin.

John 17:12

12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

Matthew 26:23-25

23 Jesus replied, “The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me. 24 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.”

25 Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, “Surely you don’t mean me, Rabbi?”

Jesus answered, “You have said so.”

I think God did what He did with the Pharoah, He hardened Judas heart and used Him as a vessel of destruction to do His greater will, Romans 9 has this painted all over it.

Sucks to be Judas! had no choice, and destruction can mean physical destruction

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"Are you saying that because something "has to happen" the person perpetuating a sin that made it happen is somehow off the hook? "

I interpreted the "something" as the atonement of Christ and Judas "perpetuated" the atonement getting into a deal with the Roman Hoy Faloy's and the sin was the atonement and then you are saying that what he did was bad so that is how I got that! Tell me I am wrong about you thinking the atonement is a sin!

Ok... You are wrong about me thinking the Atonement is a sin.

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Ok... You are wrong about me thinking the Atonement is a sin.

that is what I want to hear!

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Speculation as to individual sons of perdition is at best unprofitable. Some have consigned Judas Iscariot to this doom, based on certain scriptural passages. (See John 12:6; 6:70; 17:12; Acts 1:20.) President Joseph F. Smith questions this interpretation: “To my mind it strongly appears that not one of the disciples possessed sufficient light, knowledge nor wisdom, at the time of the crucifixion, for either exaltation or condemnation; for it was afterward that their minds were opened to understand the scriptures, and that they were endowed with power from on high; without which they were only children in knowledge, in comparison to what they afterwards became under the influence of the Spirit.”

(Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, pp.125-127)

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What if it was a commandment of Jesus to Judas that he betray him? Would it be a sin then? The same thing has been speculated, at the very least by me, regarding Peter and his denial of Christ three times before the **** crowed. Jesus' statement that Peter will deny him thrice could be read as a commandment, so as to save Peter's own life that he also not be taken. Just a thought.

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What if it was a commandment of Jesus to Judas that he betray him? Would it be a sin then? The same thing has been speculated, at the very least by me, regarding Peter and his denial of Christ three times before the **** crowed. Jesus' statement that Peter will deny him thrice could be read as a commandment, so as to save Peter's own life that he also not be taken. Just a thought.

Ha ha! It automatically censored a word for me! I guess I should have written 'rooster'. blink.gif

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John 17:12

12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

Just to tell ya' KJV reads differently. It uses 'SoP' rather than 'one'. Meaning it could be plural depending on the situation (you'd have to check out more Biblical Scholarship just to be sure).

Best Wishes,

TAO

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What if it was a commandment of Jesus to Judas that he betray him? Would it be a sin then? The same thing has been speculated, at the very least by me, regarding Peter and his denial of Christ three times before the **** crowed. Jesus' statement that Peter will deny him thrice could be read as a commandment, so as to save Peter's own life that he also not be taken. Just a thought.

Considering what Jesus said about what would happen to who betrays him I would say no this is not the case.

Interesting theory regarding Peter however I think with Him Jesus showed the same grace open to all of us and forgave him, interesting that the next time they spoke He asked Him three times if He loved Him, I have always taken that as Jesus showing Peter that He is still loved by Him.

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I think the Bible shows that Judas did what He was predestined by God to do, but yet is still subject to punishment because of His sin.

You're reading into the passages. There is no predestination.

12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.
Just to tell ya' KJV reads differently. It uses 'SoP' rather than 'one'. Meaning it could be plural depending on the situation (you'd have to check out more Biblical Scholarship just to be sure).

The Greek in this case uses the word υἱός (huios) which is "son", or less frequently "child". God's Word, the Contemporary English Version and a very few others change this to "one" or "man", but of my 25 versions, including German, Spanish, Italian, Latin, and French translations, only these few corrupt the translation so.

I think God did what He did with the Pharoah, He hardened Judas heart and used Him as a vessel of destruction to do His greater will, Romans 9 has this painted all over it.

That God used Judas to further His plan is not in question. We Saints accept that fully. However, This does not mean that Father made him do anything; He just knew Judas well enough that he could make use of him as He did.

7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

Lehi

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