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Your thoughts on death

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I have had a NDE and believe (whether or not anyone else does) what it's like to be dead. Once you see yourself dead, there is no question that life has ceased to exist... yet you still do. I've spoken to two other very close friends who had a NDE, and they were very different. One of them fell down a ravine while hiking in the snow and saw nothing but a blue light. He woke up sort of bummed that he came back, and the next thing he saw was his friend giving him CPR (he is not a Christian). My other friend was quite different. In a failed suicide, he drank a lot and took some pills. His experience was very different... he said he was in a desert and there were all these hikers. He tried to talk to people, but they ignored him. A woman came up to him and said, "You aren't supposed to be here." He woke up and turned his life around. One could argue that he was influenced by the pills he took, but it doesn't detract in his opinion of its validity.

The question I'm asking is what you expect to happen directly after you acknowledge you're dead. In my experience, I was standing there waiting for something to happen... nothing happened. I didn't see a door or a light, but I expected to. All I saw was myself laying there dead and everything around me was the same. I just waited for something to happen, and as I waited I had a few moments to contemplate my life, who I was... In that moment, I began rationalizing my case for being a good human. I was waiting to talk to God, and realized there's nothing I could hide nor anything I could change. The one thing that struck me as most important is that aside from truth, there was no wiggle room and anything that wasn't based on truth didn't mean anything. I couldn't explain away anything, because God knows everything... I wasn't scared, and for the record felt very flawed. I then woke up (I was electrocuted). Every day after that one (over ten years ago) is extra credit, but I know I'll face that same scenario again and I don't fear it.

I'm curious to know what you expect directly afterward once you die. Not the long term, but right afterward. You can't know, but it doesn't hurt to theorize. What is it you expect to happen directly after you die?

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I have had a NDE and believe (whether or not anyone else does) what it's like to be dead. Once you see yourself dead, there is no question that life has ceased to exist... yet you still do. I've spoken to two other very close friends who had a NDE, and they were very different. One of them fell down a ravine while hiking in the snow and saw nothing but a blue light. He woke up sort of bummed that he came back, and the next thing he saw was his friend giving him CPR (he is not a Christian). My other friend was quite different. In a failed suicide, he drank a lot and took some pills. His experience was very different... he said he was in a desert and there were all these hikers. He tried to talk to people, but they ignored him. A woman came up to him and said, "You aren't supposed to be here." He woke up and turned his life around. One could argue that he was influenced by the pills he took, but it doesn't detract in his opinion of its validity.

The question I'm asking is what you expect to happen directly after you acknowledge you're dead. In my experience, I was standing there waiting for something to happen... nothing happened. I didn't see a door or a light, but I expected to. All I saw was myself laying there dead and everything around me was the same. I just waited for something to happen, and as I waited I had a few moments to contemplate my life, who I was... In that moment, I began rationalizing my case for being a good human. I was waiting to talk to God, and realized there's nothing I could hide nor anything I could change. The one thing that struck me as most important is that aside from truth, there was no wiggle room and anything that wasn't based on truth didn't mean anything. I couldn't explain away anything, because God knows everything... I wasn't scared, and for the record felt very flawed. I then woke up (I was electrocuted). Every day after that one (over ten years ago) is extra credit, but I know I'll face that same scenario again and I don't fear it.

I'm curious to know what you expect directly afterward once you die. Not the long term, but right afterward. You can't know, but it doesn't hurt to theorize. What is it you expect to happen directly after you die?

well, immediately I would wonder what the heck happened and until I get my bearings and then I hope I see my Saviour, then me folks and some selected family members, especially ones that I have learned about doing family history and then a who's who of famous celebrities. Plus I would want to get hooked up with a woman in the next life if that doesn't happen here. Plus I would want to know about all these mysteries and problems and get all the bloody answers to stuff and what ever happened to Hoffa and Earhart and that sort of thing

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well, immediately I would wonder what the heck happened and until I get my bearings and then I hope I see my Saviour, then me folks and some selected family members, especially ones that I have learned about doing family history and then a who's who of famous celebrities. Plus I would want to get hooked up with a woman in the next life if that doesn't happen here. Plus I would want to know about all these mysteries and problems and get all the bloody answers to stuff and what ever happened to Hoffa and Earhart and that sort of thing

(from your link) Is this what you'd expect?

I might not be brought to stand in the presence of my God

to be judged of my deeds. . . .

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(from your link) Is this what you'd expect?

are you talking to me or Kevin Christensen?, if me, then I stand by every word I wrote! one can only hope right?!

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I'm curious to know what you expect directly afterward once you die. Not the long term, but right afterward. You can't know, but it doesn't hurt to theorize. What is it you expect to happen directly after you die?

It depends on how I die (given my spirituality is at the same level in each instance). If a horrible death (slow, painful, violent, otherwise agonizing, etc.) then in the immediate moments following I would experience great relief and gratitude; if with others at the same time, rendering comfort and reassurance, coaching and being coached through the immediate passage but being quickly redirected into our own place; if peacefully in bed with my loved ones around me and with advanced preparation to say goodbye and bless them like father Lehi or Jacob did theirs, with much excitement and gratitude and acknowledging the arrival of my escorts. In any case I would quickly enter a beautiful garden, or a gazebo or patio in a garden, and joyously reunite with people close to my heart; I would know immediately whether I was about to see our Savior or if I had to wait a little longer; and, I would know that those I left behind are in the best of care, just as I was.

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are you talking to me or Kevin Christensen?, if me, then I stand by every word I wrote! one can only hope right?!

It doesn't matter, as the question has no correct answer. I've heard of Mormon NDE's but have no personal experience with them (either knowing the person or having personal experience). I'm not asking you to defend anything, because there's nothing to defend... I'm honestly curious what people expect to happen directly after they die... within the first few minutes.

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Magicians divide the dying process into three main phases. The first, called the First Death, is the seperation of the physical body from the other levels of the self. Depending on the cause, it can be a very quick process or a relatively slow one. Violent deaths bring about an abrupt separation, while natural deaths often involve a period of weeks or months in which the links with the physical body gradually and gently break down. The next stage, which is called the Second Death, is the shedding of the etheric body. The Second Death normally happens within three days or so after the first, but can sometimes be delayed much longer. Its timing depends mostly on the strength and health of the etheric body itself, but it can also be influenced by the attitude of the dying person. Once the Second Death happens, the dying person moves onto the astral level and undergoes the third stage of the dying process; this varies sharply from person to person depending on a wide range of factors.

Monsters by John Michael Greer

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Sounds great, Nathair, but wouldn't you want to hang out with King Charles the 2 or eat a ton of Chocolate with Fatty Arbuckle or anything mildly amusing?!

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How would I describe the city of Atlanta, if I had only been in the airport.

I think many of these NDE's are "in the airport", so their description of the afterlife is not very useful. Moody's book "Life after Life" falls into that airport experience for me. And then I read his second book, "Reflections on Life after Life." I then compared some of the experiences with what the book of Alma tells us about the afterlife.

Very interesting. The "bad guys" were suffering severe mental anguish. A person who commited murder will see the full extent of what he did. He will see what kind of life the person would have had, the effect on his family, etc.

One interesting comment from one who visited from the other side was how surprised he was that everything was familiar, unchanged. People stay the same-- they bring with them the same attitudes, character defects, personality traits.

Basically the things we bring with us are: our knowledge, our character, and our covenants. As a deceased wife told her husband, they were still bound together by their sealing. She told him that she had alot of studying to do, and it was "very difficult".

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I think that relating the experience to NDE is mistaken -- the "shock" of seeing an angel put him into a NDE.

He experienced the suffering of the damned, but there is no evidence that he crossed the line between mortality and the spirit world. He was taught what would happen if he did cross that threshold, what he could expect if he continued in what he was doing.

Anyway, an observation. We are so accustomed to having a "second chance", that we do not think what would happened if we ran out of second chances. And that is what hell is all about. We lost our chance forever, and all we have to look forward to is the judgement. And Alma experienced a taste of that suffering, until the Lord showed him that he still had time to repent.

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Quote: Magicians divide the dying process into three main phases. The first, called the First Death, is the seperation of the physical body from the other levels of the self. Depending on the cause, it can be a very quick process or a relatively slow one. Violent deaths bring about an abrupt separation, while natural deaths often involve a period of weeks or months in which the links with the physical body gradually and gently break down. The next stage, which is called the Second Death, is the shedding of the etheric body. The Second Death normally happens within three days or so after the first, but can sometimes be delayed much longer. Its timing depends mostly on the strength and health of the etheric body itself, but it can also be influenced by the attitude of the dying person. Once the Second Death happens, the dying person moves onto the astral level and undergoes the third stage of the dying process; this varies sharply from person to person depending on a wide range of factors. Monsters by John Michael Greer

Kind of like the Pledge, the Turn, and the Prestige!

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well, immediately I would wonder what the heck happened and until I get my bearings and then I hope I see my Saviour, then me folks and some selected family members, especially ones that I have learned about doing family history and then a who's who of famous celebrities. Plus I would want to get hooked up with a woman in the next life if that doesn't happen here. Plus I would want to know about all these mysteries and problems and get all the bloody answers to stuff and what ever happened to Hoffa and Earhart and that sort of thing

I have a similar expectation. I expect to meet God first. I don't view life as a pass/fail test, but a learning experience. After God talks to me about what I learned outside the kingdom of God, I expect to walk through a door and meet every soul I came in contact with in life. If we shared joy, I will feel that joy. If I caused them pain, I will feel that pain (my interpretation of hell). After that I have nary a clue, except to be there awaiting the souls that come after me.

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Sounds great, Nathair, but wouldn't you want to hang out with King Charles the 2 or eat a ton of Chocolate with Fatty Arbuckle or anything mildly amusing?!

Once I pass beyond the astral, I intend to spend my time doing missionary work. After the resurrection, though, I intend to take off for a few millennia and do things like watch the life cycle of an oak tree.

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I think that relating the experience to NDE is mistaken -- the "shock" of seeing an angel put him into a NDE.

He experienced the suffering of the damned, but there is no evidence that he crossed the line between mortality and the spirit world. He was taught what would happen if he did cross that threshold, what he could expect if he continued in what he was doing. SNIP

"Nigh unto death" is the term used in the Mosiah account. Alma's experience includes all of the major elements of a modern NDE. Alma also demonstrates all of the after-effects of NDEs. The response to Alma's condition resembles the Opening of the Mouth rite, which was intended to reverse the blows of death. And most of the explicit after life information in the Book of Mormon comes through Alma. Several years after writing my essay, I listened to Howard Storm report his NDE at the 1999 IANDS conference in Salt Lake City, and I could not help noticing that how much he just talked like Alma.

Kevin Christensen

Pittsburgh, PA

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Looking forward to death. Not looking forward to the process of dying, however.

Some days, it's more inviting than others.

Lehi

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I have had a NDE and believe (whether or not anyone else does) what it's like to be dead. Once you see yourself dead, there is no question that life has ceased to exist... yet you still do. ...What is it you expect to happen directly after you die?

Hi,

When I was a teenager growing up in the LDS church I read the book "Life Everlasting" by Duane Crowther. It records many Mormon NDE experiences. Many of these begin with the spirit being greeted by other spirits from the world of spirits. So that is how I imagine it will happen.

You can read in Crowther's book at google books: Life Everlasting

Richard

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My father-in-law had a NDE shortly after he and his wife were married. He was in a single car accident and "died". He distinctly remembers standing outside the car, looking at his body that was still inside and started to realize that he was dead and all he could think about was his newly-wed wife he was leaving behind and the life together they would never share. Two men approached him and told him that he needed to come with them and he knew that if he did go with them, he would never come back. He adamantly refused to go with them, saying it was not his time to die and he needed to go back to his wife. If I remember the story correctly, the two men were a little perturbed that he was not cooperating, so they withdrew from him a little ways and were conversing with each other. They finally came back to him and informed him that he could stay. The next thing he knew he woke up. I don't remember when he said he woke up, but he knew what he experienced.

Needless to say, nine months later my wife was born, so I'm glad he came back!

As for me, I imagine that I will be greeted immediately by loved ones that have already passed beyond, who are happily expecting you beyond the veil and then will help you adjust, etc. I look forward to meeting my ancestors who I did not know in this life, namely my paternal grandparents. When children are brought into this world, it's such a happy occasion for those expecting them, and I'd like to think it will be the same when we are "born" into the afterlife. I've wondered as well when we left our premortal existence to be born on earth, if it was a little "sad" like death is for us when a loved one dies.

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Not sure who I will see or what will happen, but I will be sorely disappointed if I see any plastic in the afterlife.

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I'm curious to know what you expect directly afterward once you die. Not the long term, but right afterward. You can't know, but it doesn't hurt to theorize. What is it you expect to happen directly after you die?

I believe in NDE's -- that they are real experiences. Indeed, in many ways I'm rather envious of your NDE. At the same time I am uncertain how to interpret them. Let me attempt to explain what I mean by that with two examples:

1. I believe in the physicality of spirit matter -- that spirits occupy a world that is temporally and spatially extant. I even believe Brigham Young who taught that this spirit world is here co-local with this earth. Accounts suggest that this spirit world is diverse and full. There exist a vast array of vegetation, animal life, buildings, cities, etc. It is a dynamic, vibrant place.

If we assume that with death our spirit body (a material body) simply leaves the physical body and enters this spirit world then it could potentially be a little disruptive to whatever was going on there on the other side. Suppose there some spirit beings are in some place being taught some Gospel lessons and on our side there is a car crash and the mortal's spirit body leaves and transitions to the other side right in the middle of the missionary discussion in the spirit world. That might be a little distracting.

Yet, in no NDE account that I've come across (but I'm not well read on the subject either) is there a description where the newly-dead individual "interrupts" a scene in the spirit world. Indeed, there really aren't NDE's where the newly-dead individual encounters anyone but that they are directly associated with individual (guide, messenger, family, etc.). There are no examples I'm aware of incidental or random encounters. If, upon death, the spirit body simply transitions from one realm to the next then it should be expected there are these incidental encounters.

2. The other thing that is curious to me about NDE's is the matter of clothing. The newly dead do not describe themselves as naked. Usually they don't bother noticing their body at all (indeed some claim to be completely disembodied). But in a few encounters such as multiple NDE's (firefighters, soldiers) there are descriptions or at least identification with clothing. The question is where that clothing comes from? Certainly it isn't something that the pre-mortal body brought with them when their physical body was yet in its mother's womb.

Conclusion: Given these two examples and a few other lines of reasoning I am inclined to believe that our newly-dead status will be like cdowis's suggestion -- they are an airport experience. But I will go beyond what he may be inclined to and suggest our airport experience is not spatially and temporally extant realities. Rather than are virtualized or simulation realities tailored to the individuals experiencing them. Among the purposes of this "airport experience" is to help the mind and the spirit body to transition to the actual spirit world. Based on some of the accounts I've read the technology being this simulated reality is amazing (assuming that it is such). Individuals can be rendered in a location that reflects the physical/mortal world with real time updates or can be rendered in a location that is completely different from the death scene of their physical body.

In short, if my hypothesis is even partially correct then I can't really hold any expectations about what my newly-dead environment will be like. It will be whatever is needed to help me transition to the spirit world. /sigh

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I'm curious to know what you expect directly afterward once you die. Not the long term, but right afterward. You can't know, but it doesn't hurt to theorize. What is it you expect to happen directly after you die?

What will happen after I die????.....All sensory functions having shut down I will cease to exist (well, my lifeless body will still exist), my body will be harvested for organ donation and then the remainder will be cremated and my kin will spread my ashes somewhere in the Big Sur.

Pretty simple actually.

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I believe in NDE's -- that they are real experiences. Indeed, in many ways I'm rather envious of your NDE. At the same time I am uncertain how to interpret them. Let me attempt to explain what I mean by that with two examples:

1. I believe in the physicality of spirit matter -- that spirits occupy a world that is temporally and spatially extant. I even believe Brigham Young who taught that this spirit world is here co-local with this earth. Accounts suggest that this spirit world is diverse and full. There exist a vast array of vegetation, animal life, buildings, cities, etc. It is a dynamic, vibrant place.

If we assume that with death our spirit body (a material body) simply leaves the physical body and enters this spirit world then it could potentially be a little disruptive to whatever was going on there on the other side. Suppose there some spirit beings are in some place being taught some Gospel lessons and on our side there is a car crash and the mortal's spirit body leaves and transitions to the other side right in the middle of the missionary discussion in the spirit world. That might be a little distracting.

Yet, in no NDE account that I've come across (but I'm not well read on the subject either) is there a description where the newly-dead individual "interrupts" a scene in the spirit world. Indeed, there really aren't NDE's where the newly-dead individual encounters anyone but that they are directly associated with individual (guide, messenger, family, etc.). There are no examples I'm aware of incidental or random encounters. If, upon death, the spirit body simply transitions from one realm to the next then it should be expected there are these incidental encounters.

2. The other thing that is curious to me about NDE's is the matter of clothing. The newly dead do not describe themselves as naked. Usually they don't bother noticing their body at all (indeed some claim to be completely disembodied). But in a few encounters such as multiple NDE's (firefighters, soldiers) there are descriptions or at least identification with clothing. The question is where that clothing comes from? Certainly it isn't something that the pre-mortal body brought with them when their physical body was yet in its mother's womb.

That's an interesting observation and one I hadn't thought of. I remember standing over my dead body , but I didn't look in a mirror to see if I had any clothes. If it were to happen again, what I would do is lift up a hand to see whether or not I could see it... I didn't do that either.

Conclusion: Given these two examples and a few other lines of reasoning I am inclined to believe that our newly-dead status will be like cdowis's suggestion -- they are an airport experience. But I will go beyond what he may be inclined to and suggest our airport experience is not spatially and temporally extant realities. Rather than are virtualized or simulation realities tailored to the individuals experiencing them. Among the purposes of this "airport experience" is to help the mind and the spirit body to transition to the actual spirit world. Based on some of the accounts I've read the technology being this simulated reality is amazing (assuming that it is such). Individuals can be rendered in a location that reflects the physical/mortal world with real time updates or can be rendered in a location that is completely different from the death scene of their physical body.

In short, if my hypothesis is even partially correct then I can't really hold any expectations about what my newly-dead environment will be like. It will be whatever is needed to help me transition to the spirit world. /sigh

I agree about the airport experience. I don't make the rules, but I sort of believe that one "rule" about NDE's is that one can't go too far. Once one knows too much, then the line has been crossed and if you did go back you'd be armed with the knowledge. Infinite concepts can only be understood by infinite perspectives.

After beating bone cancer at 15 my daughter was diagnosed with leukemia three years later (3% of cancer survivors get leukemia). After a well fought battle and surviving a bone marrow transplant, the disease came back. She got worse quickly, and the last day she was alive it was my night to spend with her in the hospital. She was unconscious, and as she lay there breathing very heavily, I held her hands and prayed. when I was done I put her hands back under the cover and just started talking to her. I told her that if her experience was like mine, she'd at some point be outside of her body. I told her not to fear whatever awaited her, and that someday I'd be in the same situation and I wouldn't fear it. I then got the cot ready to go to sleep and sat back down on the bed. Her hands moved under the cover and I grabbed them... she died moments later. I didn't see her, feel her presence in the room or see anything else. What I was left with was the harsh reality that she was gone, and felt so grateful that she was my daughter and I was given the experience of being there when she left... I did feel she could hear me.

I guess the point to this is that we will all face the same music someday. Whatever we think is going to happen is going to unfold moments after it does... in a distant way I look forward to it. From my NDE experience, the first thought was fear, followed by the fact that there wasn't anything I could change. Being flawed is part of the human experience, and while some believe nothing will happen (nothing wrong with that), when it does your place in the universe is defined solely by you... it's a feeling of being very alone as you wait to see what happens next, but it's not scary... hard to put into words.

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