Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
maklelan

Early Christian Books on Lead Plates?

54 posts in this topic

I have a small collection of Roman and Greek coins, and those profiles are very much in the style of those coins so much that they might be duplicates or impressions of coins. Maybe a little suspicious? Probably could be taken either way.

Also, I am more convinced than ever that many of the letters were made by melting lead wire or something like it into the plates. Some letters even show uneven "ripples" where the plate possibly moved slightly while the metal was still molten. I have seen those effects in things I have made myself using that technique.

Just guessing of course.

0

Share this post


Link to post

Here are the photos associated with Thronemann's analysis mentioned by Dan:

post-1026-0-33679900-1301622471_thumb.jp

post-1026-0-64361500-1301622434_thumb.jp

post-1026-0-72969300-1301622480_thumb.jp

After what Hoffman pulled, nothing would surprise me when it comes to hoaxes. That said, I would love to see some hands on analysis done on these by experts, not simply relying on one person's position via photographs. When it comes to epigraphy, there are always unknowns and nuances that need to be addressed. The Book of Abraham should teach us that much.

0

Share this post


Link to post

The other interesting thing about these is that they seem to be cast rather than etched. That means if you got clay, you could press an image (coin, or something) into the clay, and modify it a bit in the clay. Then cast the lead into the clay mold.

It is all very odd. Why would someone want to forge these types of things which seem to be a jumble of symbols and words?

0

Share this post


Link to post

The other interesting thing about these is that they seem to be cast rather than etched. That means if you got clay, you could press an image (coin, or something) into the clay, and modify it a bit in the clay. Then cast the lead into the clay mold.

It is all very odd. Why would someone want to forge these types of things which seem to be a jumble of symbols and words?

It would have taken a tremendous amount of work. Those possible "coin" images do look cast- and not that precisely, but on the other hand some of the images are very crisply defined- it seems to me that there is more than one technique going, on each one.

0

Share this post


Link to post

It would have taken a tremendous amount of work. Those possible "coin" images do look cast- and not that precisely, but on the other hand some of the images are very crisply defined- it seems to me that there is more than one technique going, on each one.

I agree. I think some was pressed and some etched in the clay.

0

Share this post


Link to post

Bukowski noted the heads look like coins. I think I've found a match. The head on the right is an Alexander coin.

post-1026-0-88430200-1301627834_thumb.jp

post-1026-0-96158200-1301627844_thumb.jp

0

Share this post


Link to post

Bukowski noted the heads look like coins. I think I've found a match. The head on the right is an Alexander coin.

post-1026-0-88430200-1301627834_thumb.jp

post-1026-0-96158200-1301627844_thumb.jp

I was just looking at that image!

Edit: there are also crocodile coins- I was looking for a match

Edited by mfbukowski
0

Share this post


Link to post

The more I look at that crocodile the more suspicious I become.

It looks too sinuous, too supple, too naturalistic and to show it emerging from the water like that- it looks too modern to me.

It's not like ancient crocodile images which tend to be very symmetrical.

??

0

Share this post


Link to post

The more I look at that crocodile the more suspicious I become.

It looks too sinuous, too supple, too naturalistic and to show it emerging from the water like that- it looks too modern to me.

It's not like ancient crocodile images which tend to be very symmetrical.

??

I hate to say it, but that crocodile looks like one of those little plastic toys my grandsons like to play with. It really does.

Remember these plates are supposedly credit card size, so these would have to be small things to make the impressions on clay.

0

Share this post


Link to post

post-1026-0-81491100-1301628955_thumb.jp

This big head looks just like a coin too. You can faintly see the shadow of a ring of the edge of a coin around it.

I've seen magic cut gems that look like the chariot in the upper left.

0

Share this post


Link to post

I've seen magic cut gems that look like the chariot in the upper left.

I KNOW I have seen that chariot image before I just can't place it.

0

Share this post


Link to post

Here's the type of chariot scene that could be used for an impression.

post-1026-0-50502500-1301629221_thumb.jp

post-1026-0-74770500-1301629242_thumb.jp

0

Share this post


Link to post

Unfortunately I have not yet figured out how to post pictures here, but I found this page VERY interesting- two images similar to those on that one plate- where? In none other than Janson- everyone's Art History 101 text.

0

Share this post


Link to post

Just received a note, indirectly, from Peter Thonemann at Oxford. He presents a pretty good case that the documents are modern forgeries.

.

Thanks for this important update, Dan.

0

Share this post


Link to post

If these are indeed forgeries, are the death threats fake too? Maybe to make the story more compelling?

0

Share this post


Link to post

Actually... in Joseph Smith's day, the criticism wasn't all that common. That's probably because many elementary school books, encyclopedias, dictionaries, biblical commentaries, religious periodicals, etc. actually promoted the notion that the ancients inscribed metal records.

I know, I know, it is hard to read sarcasim.

I confess I baited you. Sorry.

Edited by Mola Ram Suda Ram
0

Share this post


Link to post

I know, I know, it is hard to read sarcasim.

I confess I baited you. Sorry.

Wwwhhy I otta.... :P

.

.

.

You got me. ;)

0

Share this post


Link to post

Wwwhhy I otta.... :P

.

.

.

You got me. ;)

I just know how much you like this topic.

0

Share this post


Link to post

Just received a note, indirectly, from Peter Thonemann at Oxford. He presents a pretty good case that the documents are modern forgeries.

.

Given the spate of modern forgeries replete in Israel at the moment I wouldn't be surprised if they were fake. I noticed that they had a tenuous provenance and were probably forgeries, but nonetheless it's too bad.

0

Share this post


Link to post

I wonder if, upon translation, we'll find these lead-plate writing Christians wondering why God had afflicted them with abdominal pain, headaches, and stunted neurological development in their children.

0

Share this post


Link to post

I wonder if, upon translation, we'll find these lead-plate writing Christians wondering why God had afflicted them with abdominal pain, headaches, and stunted neurological development in their children.

That's great! I love it!

0

Share this post


Link to post

I wonder if, upon translation, we'll find these lead-plate writing Christians wondering why God had afflicted them with abdominal pain, headaches, and stunted neurological development in their children.

You forgot the sudden increase in the rate of autism.

0

Share this post


Link to post

You forgot the sudden increase in the rate of autism.

Skeptical: Nearly all of the old plumbing in the cities in Europe and the US . . . as welll as other parts of the world . . . has lead piping bringing water into people's houses for bathing, washing, drinking, and cooking purposes. The new EPA regs on lead paint are monumentally stupid: you have to visqueen things off, not reuse stuff you wear removing the lead paint, and secure all dust, paint chips, and working material in a garbage bag that is taped securely.

Then you get to throw the garbage bag into the dumpster.

So it'll go to the land fill.

So it'll decay and enter the ground water.

So it'll end up being drunk by babies in their formula . . . or via breast milk.

USU "really, really skeptical" 78

1

Share this post


Link to post
Hi...I'm actor Troy McClure. You might remember me from such educational films as "Lead Paint: Delicious But Deadly" and "Here Comes the Metric System!"

troy-mcclure-picture.jpg

Edited by cinepro
0

Share this post


Link to post

Skeptical: Nearly all of the old plumbing in the cities in Europe and the US . . . as welll as other parts of the world . . . has lead piping bringing water into people's houses for bathing, washing, drinking, and cooking purposes. The new EPA regs on lead paint are monumentally stupid: you have to visqueen things off, not reuse stuff you wear removing the lead paint, and secure all dust, paint chips, and working material in a garbage bag that is taped securely.

Then you get to throw the garbage bag into the dumpster.

So it'll go to the land fill.

So it'll decay and enter the ground water.

So it'll end up being drunk by babies in their formula . . . or via breast milk.

USU "really, really skeptical" 78

Yeah, but then you go out to the landfill and dig it up and melt it down and make some early Christian lead plates!

With the price of metals these days going up.....

Who says you can't turn lead into gold?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.