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LDS Guy 1986

Is the doctrine of the Rapture Biblical?

Rapture  

36 members have voted

  1. 1. Is the teaching of the rapture Biblical in your opinion?

    • Yes
      9
    • No
      27
    • Unsure
      0
    • Don't know
      0


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How do you reconcile the idea that some people believe that it's pre-Trib and some believe it's post-Trib.

The Rapture is just evangelical mumbo jumbo and is false. It's not worth my time to even bother with.

Then why post anything in this thread if it's not worth your time?

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You have obviously never ever read the New Testament if you actually believe this garbage!

Read the Epistles of Paul, Peter, and John, they are constantly correcting the false teachings of anti-christ's in the ancient days!

How about instead of listening to some preacher we listen to Christ! Matthew 24:24 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect"

Sorry to burst your bubble friend but even the very elect of God can be misled by the false prophets, and false Christs. So imagine how easy it will be for the Anti-Christ the devil in the flesh to mislead the elect of God in the tribulation, if mere men can mislead the elect of God!

Your man made doctrine are putting your salvation are risk my friend, "I don't mean to be harsh or condescending only frank and forthright,"

You need to read the Bible friend and stop letting a guy with a college degree to decide what is the Word of God for you. "I don't mean to be harsh or condescending only frank and forthright,"

Nothing you said is even worth responding to. You must not know Christ.

Well, they are from God so the point is moot, but to extend an olive branch I will answer. It would come from the same place as the rapture, from men (in raptures made by men in 1738). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture

Since the concept of the rapture didn't come from man, and you even believe in it, simply put you're a post trib rapture believer.

By the same way any prophet or revelation is tested by the way that we are told by Jesus Christ to test them! "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep

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Well, for you that position make perfect sense, but as LDS we don't believe that there is any possibility of a rapture so I don't talk about the possibility of a rapture, especially since the Book of Revelations makes no reference to it at all.

But I understand your position, I just have differing beliefs as LDS, we also teach enduring to the end, faith in Christ, and preparing (both spiritually and temporally)

Sorry to disappoint you. Revelation 3 contains letters to the churches which are also letters to different stages of the church ages. Revelation 4 starts like this, " 1 After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said,

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From an evangelical scholar.

Second, the Left Behind series misrepresents the claims of the New Testament. The Book of Revelation is a book of comfort intended to assure its readers that God will watch over and preserve them through all their trials and tribulations. It never promises that people will be free from suffering and martyrdom; it only promises that they will be protected through it all, that God will not abandon them or allow them to have their faith stripped from them. Divine presence in this world

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From an evangelical scholar.

Witherington, Ben, III.

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Yes, and that is his opinion, that the rapture will take place after the tribulation period.

Notice, 2 Thess. 2:1 "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us

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That is your opinion, which distorts the meaning of the text.

If you look further in that chapter he explains that the Wicked will be revealed and decieve many, and in v. 15 he exhorts the Thessalonian saints to stand fast and hold to the tradition which they have recieved. Why the need to do so if they would be raptured?

You're right, it's my opinion.

And in v. 15 Paul exhorts them to stand firm in the present tense.

2 Thess. 2:13 "But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. 14 He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

15 So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings[c] we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter."

Notice a couple things. This whole paragraph is started with "but..." which indicates a change in tense and direction. And the Hold fast portion that you seem to think means they won't be raptured before the tribulation, is in the present tense, indicating it to be instruction, not about the future but about what is happening on that day.

Also notice, that we are saved by the work of the Spirit through belief in the truth. Just wanted to point that out. ;-)

As Paul says, in 1 Thess. 5:9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

During the tribulation period, God will be pouring out his wrath, and since he didn't appoint us to suffer wrath, there's no reason to think that we will be here.

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Well, for you that position make perfect sense, but as LDS we don't believe that there is any possibility of a rapture so I don't talk about the possibility of a rapture, especially since the Book of Revelations makes no reference to it at all.

But I understand your position, I just have differing beliefs as LDS, we also teach enduring to the end, faith in Christ, and preparing (both spiritually and temporally)

Humor me; hypothetically if the rapture we to happen and were not taken, what would you do?

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Humor me; hypothetically if the rapture we to happen and were not taken, what would you do?

Continue to serve my Master and Savior Jesus Christ.

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Continue to serve my Master and Savior Jesus Christ.

In what capacity, though? Like, the same way before the rapture? or would you modify your bliefs to perhaps match those who were raptured? or some way else?

(all hypothetical based on if the rapure occurred)

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In what capacity, though? Like, the same way before the rapture? or would you modify your bliefs to perhaps match those who were raptured? or some way else?

(all hypothetical based on if the rapure occurred)

Yes, I would continue serving Him, for He is what is important. He can deal with me as He sees fit, He is the ultimate just and merciful God. I trust His decisions. I don't answer to other mortals, Christian or not.

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And yes you are correct, we know him by his fruits. How many women was he sealed to who were still married?

So false prophets have more than one wife according to the Bible?

Well then good by Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Moses, David, Solomon, and pretty much over half of all the Prophets of the Bible!

Good thing though is your set of scriptures weighs a lot less if you toss out all that false prophesy from all those false prophets!

Of course you lose most of the Bible in the process, but hey let's not acutally use the the Bible to test a prophet like the Bible says we will use whatever your preacher thinks we should use.

P.S.

The verse says to have to test there fruits if you haven't read the Book of Mormon, then you haven't tested whether Joseph Smith is a prophet or not. So by declaring him a false prophet without testing his fruits (The Book of Mormon) you are bearing false witness against your neighbor.

That is against the Ten Commandments, my friend, so I would suggest you prayerfully study and ponder the Book of Mormon to test the fruits of Joseph Smith, before you risk damning your soul to hell by willingly continuing to bear false witness against someone.

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Sorry to disappoint you. Revelation 3 contains letters to the churches which are also letters to different stages of the church ages. Revelation 4 starts like this, " 1 After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said,

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Humor me; hypothetically if the rapture we to happen and were not taken, what would you do?

I don't usually do hypotheticals, because they are always taken out of context by someone else, but you are really nice and I am feeling a little obliged so I will take a swing.

IF (and it isn't but that is irrelevant for this) THE RAPTURE HAPPENED:

If the Rapture happens then Mormonism is false, since we openly preach that there is no rapture and if we were the true Church and that our President receives the will of God, then we would know that there was to be a rapture, so I would resign my membership in the LDS Church immediately (I hope everyone in the post office is dirty sinners cause I don't want to drive from NC to UT so I can hand deliver it!)

I would then do my best to figure out how anyone was raptured in the fist place since the only Church the comes close to being the Church Christ set up is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. So see the problem with this question is it contradicts itself, if there is a rapture the LDS is wrong, but if LDS is wrong, that means we never had a restoration and without a restoration (as we are foretold there will be in both the OT and the NT) we are still in the Great Apostasy and if we are still in the Great Apostasy we cannot have a rapture or a Second Coming of Christ. So see the Question cannot happen, it contradicts itself.

(This is why I don't usually do hypotheticals because somewhere something ends up contraindicating itself!)

WHEN THE RAPTURE DOESN'T HAPPEN:

I will continue preaching the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ and continue winning souls, to Christ until we are called to gather at Zion to be protected from the plagues and destruction the Anti-Christ will bring to the world before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

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Humor me; hypothetically if the rapture we to happen and were not taken, what would you do?

It wouldn't change my outlook on life much. I would continue to do what I am doing... just try and do it better.

Being an Excommunicated Mormon, I've always figured that until I get my status right with God, my final destiny is to be seated right between Tammy Faye and Jim Bakker while being forced to listen to the Bay City Rollers. The fun part will be listening to Tammy and Jim argue about why they ended up next to me. I figure I'll be laughing until my sides hurt for all eternity.

ADDITIONALLY:

What if God called the Rapture; and nobody was swept up, or so few that nobody noticed?

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I've always figured that until I get my status right with God, my final destiny is to be seated right between Tammy Faye and Jim Bakker while being forced to listen to the Bay City Rollers.

Wow, stuck between two bickering evangelists and forced to listen to 70's Scottish pop for eternity! I never though there could be anything worse punishment than eternal hell . . . until today!

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Wow, stuck between two bickering evangelists and forced to listen to 70's Scottish pop for eternity! I never though there could be anything worse punishment than eternal hell . . . until today!

That's my defination of "Eternal Hell" for the moment....

I figure God can out do my pitiful imagination... but at the same time, I hope he's not taking notes.

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That's my defination of "Eternal Hell" for the moment....

I figure God can out do my pitiful imagination... but at the same time, I hope he's not taking notes.

So should I be sent to hell, since that is your hell, does that mean I can opt out of that one and just get the standard lake of fire thing as my hell?

Cause if I get the choice between burning in agony forever and THAT, I'll take the lake of fire every time and be rejoicing!

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So should I be sent to hell, since that is your hell, does that mean I can opt out of that one and just get the standard lake of fire thing as my hell?

Cause if I get the choice between burning in agony forever and THAT, I'll take the lake of fire every time and be rejoicing!

I figure each "hell" is personally tailored to the spirit it was created for.

I guess I owe "Scrooge" for that idea.

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I figure each "hell" is personally tailored to the spirit it was created for.

I guess I owe "Scrooge" for that idea.

Well I I end up in that one then, it's your fault for bringing the idea up in the first place!

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It wouldn't change my outlook on life much. I would continue to do what I am doing... just try and do it better.

Being an Excommunicated Mormon, I've always figured that until I get my status right with God, my final destiny is to be seated right between Tammy Faye and Jim Bakker while being forced to listen to the Bay City Rollers. The fun part will be listening to Tammy and Jim argue about why they ended up next to me. I figure I'll be laughing until my sides hurt for all eternity.

ADDITIONALLY:

What if God called the Rapture; and nobody was swept up, or so few that nobody noticed?

Well infants, young children, and the mental impaired are unable to make a decision for or against Christ, and as such are in a state of innocence. I think people would notice of the worlds population of children just disappeared :P

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Well infants, young children, and the mental impaired are unable to make a decision for or against Christ, and as such are in a state of innocence. I think people would notice of the worlds population of children just disappeared :P

But there innocence also makes them unable to choose Christ either so they can't be raptured since only those "elect Christians" who have faith in Christ can be raptured. Where is the verse for children being raptured?

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So false prophets have more than one wife according to the Bible?

Well then good by Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Moses, David, Solomon, and pretty much over half of all the Prophets of the Bible!

Good thing though is your set of scriptures weighs a lot less if you toss out all that false prophesy from all those false prophets!

Of course you lose most of the Bible in the process, but hey let's not acutally use the the Bible to test a prophet like the Bible says we will use whatever your preacher thinks we should use.

P.S.

The verse says to have to test there fruits if you haven't read the Book of Mormon, then you haven't tested whether Joseph Smith is a prophet or not. So by declaring him a false prophet without testing his fruits (The Book of Mormon) you are bearing false witness against your neighbor.

That is against the Ten Commandments, my friend, so I would suggest you prayerfully study and ponder the Book of Mormon to test the fruits of Joseph Smith, before you risk damning your soul to hell by willingly continuing to bear false witness against someone.

It's unfortunate when you don't read what I wrote, and then go off as if you know what I said. Notice what I wrote:

"Hughes, on 17 March 2011 - 09:36 PM, said:

And yes you are correct, we know him by his fruits. How many women was he sealed to who were still married? "

Notice, it's not polygamy that I'm saying makes him a false prophet, but his fruits or actions of his life, one of which was his coveting of other mens wives.

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It's unfortunate when you don't read what I wrote, and then go off as if you know what I said. Notice what I wrote:

"Hughes, on 17 March 2011 - 09:36 PM, said:

And yes you are correct, we know him by his fruits. How many women was he sealed to who were still married? "

Notice, it's not polygamy that I'm saying makes him a false prophet, but his fruits or actions of his life, one of which was his coveting of other mens wives.

Joseph Smith was also sealed to men and children, does that make him gay and a pedophile also?

In the early days of the church many families would go and get sealed to the prophet or to an apostle, if the head of the household didn't hold the Melchizedek Priesthood. You understand that sealings are not only done for marriage, men are sealed to there fathers and mothers, children sealed to there parents. In the early days of the Church there were many families that were sealed to prophets and apostles because there head didn't hold the Melchizedek Priesthood, as the Melchizedek Priesthood became more accessible among the men of the Church this practice faded away into obscurity.

So of course Smith had married Women sealed to him, he also had married men sealed to him and children from those marraiges sealed to him. What never happened though was Smith never slept with any of these women because they were not his wives they were married to there husbands, married men and women being sealed to high church leaders had nothing to do with polygamy and everything to so with early beliefs of the Saints and lack of Melchizedek Priesthood holders in the early days of the Church.

Added by Edit:

When you test the fruit of the Prophet Joseph Smith, by studying, pondering, and praying about the Book of Mormon, and find if that fruit is good or bad, then and only then will I entertain your accusations of Smith. Until then I cannot in good conscience allow a man to imperil his soul further by continuing to bear false witness against an innocent man.

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Come up here, is your defense!

Wow! Your defense gets weaker by the second! That's the worst twisting of the scriptures I have ever seen! You have taken blind faith in the theories of men to a whole new and unknown level!

First off, it isn't in Revelation 3 it's in Revelation 4! It has nothing to do with the letter to the Churches at all, so maybe a little bible study is in order.

Here is you "rapture verse" it is actually painful to post this because it is so obviously not about any rapture.

"After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter." (Revelations 4:1)

This has nothing to do with a rapture this has to do with John going up to heaven to see the end of the world unfold.

See how it says I looked up, I heard, and I will show thee, they are all singular and all referring to the Apostle John and him alone.

This is by far the worst twisting of scripture EVER! This is far beyond misconception, to present this verse as having anything to do with a pre-tribulation rapture is a flat out false and you know it is. Do you really think that lying is more Christ like, than to simply study what the scriptures actually say?

Also I don't believe in a post tribulation rapture either, I believe in the Morning of the First Resurrection and only that, there is not meeting in heaven of any kind, only a joining in the AIR (as Thessalonians tells us) to be the heralds of the Return of Jesus Christ to the Earth!

First off if you read what I wrote (again) you would have noticed that I said it was Revelation 4, where I quoted Jesus calling John up there.

Second, It says what it says, and after that, there's no mention of the church, as being judged along with the rest of the world.

Third, 1 Thess. 4:17 says, "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Notice, it's in the clouds, and in the air. Whether you believe it's after the tribulation period or before, it's in the bible, thanks!

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