Is the doctrine of the Rapture Biblical?

[inquiringmind]

Don't Mormons believe in a post tribulation rapture?

[zerinus]

Don't Mormons believe in a post tribulation rapture?

Mormonism teaches that the saints will be "caught up" to meet the Lord in the cloud AT the Second coming; but whether it is pre-trib, post-trib, or middle-trib, is not made starkly clear in the scriptures, and is an irrelevant distraction.

[coolrok7]

I understand that you would disagree with me as I

[seriously honestly]

I don't usually do hypotheticals, because they are always taken out of context by someone else, but you are really nice and I am feeling a little obliged so I will take a swing.

IF (and it isn't but that is irrelevant for this) THE RAPTURE HAPPENED:

If the Rapture happens then Mormonism is false, since we openly preach that there is no rapture and if we were the true Church and that our President receives the will of God, then we would know that there was to be a rapture, so I would resign my membership in the LDS Church immediately (I hope everyone in the post office is dirty sinners cause I don't want to drive from NC to UT so I can hand deliver it!)

I would then do my best to figure out how anyone was raptured in the fist place since the only Church the comes close to being the Church Christ set up is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. So see the problem with this question is it contradicts itself, if there is a rapture the LDS is wrong, but if LDS is wrong, that means we never had a restoration and without a restoration (as we are foretold there will be in both the OT and the NT) we are still in the Great Apostasy and if we are still in the Great Apostasy we cannot have a rapture or a Second Coming of Christ. So see the Question cannot happen, it contradicts itself.

(This is why I don't usually do hypotheticals because somewhere something ends up contraindicating itself!)

WHEN THE RAPTURE DOESN'T HAPPEN:

I will continue preaching the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ and continue winning souls, to Christ until we are called to gather at Zion to be protected from the plagues and destruction the Anti-Christ will bring to the world before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

I think that would depend on a couple of things, such as when the apostasy and the restoration (when all things are made new) are to take place. I don't believe either has happended yet. Spiritually there was a restoration of God's relationship to man and vise versa because of Christ's sacrafice, but as far as needing to restore thing to new and ending an almost complete take over of apostasy? No, not yet. Although I will say that apostasy, not only from the Christian faith but from God in general, is rapidly increasing.

[LDS Guy 1986]

. I don't believe either has happended yet. Spiritually there was a restoration of God's relationship to man and vise versa because of Christ's sacrafice, but as far as needing to restore thing to new and ending an almost complete take over of apostasy?

Well, history supports a Great Apostasy happening in the first or second century AD, see the whole killing off of the Apostles, and the addition of man made creeds, ect caused a period of spiritual darkness to decend upon the Earth, I understood this long before I hear about Mormonism or the Prophet Joseph Smith.

The loss of the Apostle's is an apostasy, they were the ones preserving the purity of the Gospel and when they were killed the fullness of the Gospel was lost, hence the Great Apostasy. So if the LDS Church is a fraud then the Earth is still in the same apostasy it's been in since the Apostles were killed off.

[LDS Guy 1986]

I don

[coolrok7]

I don't either so it is very offensive to me for someone to imply that I do.

I never said you were not Christian only that your position on the millennial reign doesn't complement the Gospel.

All you need to be a Christian is Christ and repentance, everything is fine details of religion not of Christ.

My apologies to you as it wasn't directly aimed at you as it was a general statement to anyone that might be reading this. You did offer your view as a Mormon, in which the Mormon Church has a different version of the Biblical Gospel that doesn't compliment it (my perspective with no intent of being offensive to you as a person with the right to the faith of your choosing. Not all religious faith is Biblically justified, in line with what it teaches though, my view of Mormonism after investigating it after being invited to do so).

One such invitation sent to the Church I attend. In September of 1987, I received a letter (passed on to me) that was addressed to the Pastor of the Church that I

[Mudcat]

I think the notion of a pre-Tribulation rapture is tenable based upon the words of Paul.

To reject such a concept, I think a person would have to devalue his words, "poetically" misinterpret his statements or discount them entirely.

To me the straightest reading of the relevant text would seem to indicate that something to the effect of a pre-trib rapture will occur.

Luke offers a bit in regards to the topic, but it's more of a supportive role than a stand alone.

[The Nehor]

Don't Mormons believe in a post tribulation rapture?

Not really. The LDS teaching is that Christ's Church will be caught up to meet him while the Church of the Firstborn comes down to meet them. Then they go back to Earth and live out however long their millenial lifespan is.

[LDS Guy 1986]

I think the notion of a pre-Tribulation rapture is tenable based upon the words of Paul.

Yes, if you take Paul's words and take out of context parts of Matthew, the Rapture seems tenable, but the key word here is your parts and out of context.

To base your total faith on a man made doctrine that can only work when you ignore most the Gospel and take small portions out of context and mash them together you are setting yourself up for failure, IMO.

One does not have to devalue the words of Paul in Thessalonians, one has to understand that this gathering up in the AIR in context with the rest of the Gospel especially Matthew 24, where it is very clear in verses 15 - 21 that the Saints will flee into the mountains when the darkest hour of the tribulation comes.

If Christ was coming to secretly save from the tribulation, us why would he tell us to flee into the mountains, and not even pause to grab clothing nor food?

[Hughes]

Yes, if you take Paul's words and take out of context parts of Matthew, the Rapture seems tenable, but the key word here is your parts and out of context.

To base your total faith on a man made doctrine that can only work when you ignore most the Gospel and take small portions out of context and mash them together you are setting yourself up for failure, IMO.

One does not have to devalue the words of Paul in Thessalonians, one has to understand that this gathering up in the AIR in context with the rest of the Gospel especially Matthew 24, where it is very clear in verses 15 - 21 that the Saints will flee into the mountains when the darkest hour of the tribulation comes.

If Christ was coming to secretly save from the tribulation, us why would he tell us to flee into the mountains, and not even pause to grab clothing nor food?

Matthew 24:46 (JST) Then shall be fulfilled that which is written, that, In the last days,

47 Two shall be in the field; the one shall be taken and the other left.

48 Two shall be grinding at the mill; the one taken and the other left.

What is also clear is that some will be taken up to meet Jesus, and just like the days of Noah, it will surprise most people.

[LDS Guy 1986]

Matthew 24:46 (JST) Then shall be fulfilled that which is written, that, In the last days,

47 Two shall be in the field; the one shall be taken and the other left.

48 Two shall be grinding at the mill; the one taken and the other left.

What is also clear is that some will be taken up to meet Jesus, and just like the days of Noah, it will surprise most people.

How about you read the rest of Matthew 24 to get the verse in context, instead of making up doctrine my taking bits of Matthew and putting them on top of Paul's Epistle to the Thessalonians.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

16Then let them which be in Jud

[Hughes]

How about you read the rest of Matthew 24 to get the verse in context, instead of making up doctrine my taking bits of Matthew and putting them on top of Paul's Epistle to the Thessalonians.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

16Then let them which be in Jud

[LDS Guy 1986]

There's one who has made up a lot of doctrine, and that's Joseph Smith.

Concerning Matthew 24 and what it means to be taken.

Verse: 24:39 -"took them all away"

Some read into Matthew 24:39 that took them all away applies to Noah and his family taken into the safety of the ark. The Greek word for took is from airo not from lambano as in 40 & 41. The meaning is also the opposite. It means to take away, to lift up for destruction, for death .This is in harmony with Luke 17:27 the flood came and destroyed them all. The

[LDS Guy 1986]

There's one who has made up a lot of doctrine, and that's Joseph Smith.

Please the RCC and the Protestant Reformation independently have each made and changed more doctrine than Joseph Smith ever did.

Your blind faith will not go challenged here, find me the authority of Martian Luther to make or change any doctrine established by Christ?

Who ordained him a Apostle of Jesus Christ, and gave him the Keys to receive revelation for the entire world?

No authority for God = man made and in need of restoration (not reformation).

No man can get everything right, changes made by men is why we needed Joseph Smith to restore the Gospel, the priesthood, and the Kingdom of God to the Earth in the first place.

It started with the RCC, and the changes got more and more perverse and distant from the pieces of the Gospel the RCC preserved until the Protestants said enough was enough and broke away.

They did there best to figure out what was truth and what was corrupted, but without divine intervention they cannot restore complete truth to the Gospel.

Only a prophet of God can do that, and Joseph Smith was that prophet and did restore these things and received man more revelations because he was the chosen prophet of God restore the Kingdom of God to the Earth.

[Hughes]

It is amazing to me. Are you able to understand that your interpretation of Matt 24 is in error? I quoted the Greek behind the use of the words and yet you did not even acknowledge that your interpretation was refuted or at the very least that it was in trouble because the Greek doesn't support your view.

Instead you go on about unsubstciated things upon which all of mormonism rests.

By the way, rapture doesn't mean "pre-trib". It can also mean post-trib as you believe.

[LDS Guy 1986]

By the way, rapture doesn't mean "pre-trib". It can also mean post-trib as you believe.

Yeah just like global warming also means global cooling?

You can't say that rapture is post tribulation since it's entire premises is a pre tribulation rescue of selected persons, while abandoning the rest.

The post trib raptureists are just the ones who realize how silly and made up there doctrine is and wish to make it fit the scriptures better than the pre trib foolishness.

There is no gathering in Heaven at all, pre or post tribulation, those who are brought forth in the Morning of the First Resurrection and caught up in the AIR (not Heaven) with Christ desend with him as he claims his rightful throne for his millennial reign.

There is no need to address your greek because either way it doesn't support a pre or post tribulation rapture, I never said that the taken could refer to the destroyed was set in stone doctrine only an other interpretation when you look at the verse in CONTEXT, which you cannot do if you believe in a pre or post tribulation rapture.

[Hughes]

Since you believe there is no catching away of the saints at all what do you do with these scriptures that teach it?

[CQUIRK]

Since you believe there is no catching away of the saints at all what do you do with these scriptures that teach it?

Yet these scriptures don't teach what you preach.

[coolrok7]

I would reiterate what I had stated:

I would only be dogmatic on points that are biblical and not open to debate. Such for instance is the idea of the

[LDS Guy 1986]

Since you believe there is no catching away of the saints at all what do you do with these scriptures that teach it?

I take them in the context they were written that the righteous dead and the righteous who are living will be resurrected at the Second Coming, that they will meet up with him in the AIR (not heaven) and descend with him as comes to claim his millennial throne of the Earth.