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jskains

KEP - How important was it?

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Speaking as a critic, I must say, I really like David's theory.

I've noticed that all the critics love him and his theories. I suppose that means he's just really lovable. I've yet to meet him, but I'll bet I'd be so overcome that I'd give him a big 'ole fashioned man hug. :P

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However, when all is said and done, the BofA presents a restoration of many profound ancient religious truths concerning God, man, and the universe that for me personally provide important intellectual evidence for the inspiration behind the text.

And God can channel that inspiration through Flavius Josephus, Moses de Leon, Thomas Taylor, Thomas D i c k, Joshua Seixas, Alexander Niebaur et al. on its way to Joseph Smith.

If we look at the content, the BofA is an amazing book!

Especially amazing considering the radical shift from monotheism in the Kirtland-translated portion (1-2:18) to polytheism in the Nauvoo chapters.

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I totally agree. As I said it's one of my favorite works.

It's my favorite book too!

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Thats why, if you look at the current state of that post, I chose to edit it to choose my words much more carefully.

Too bad that I chose a word initially that didn't portray my meaning very well.

Lie was much too strong of a word. I didn't mean to say that there was some deliberate deception by any means. Look at the edited post.

Again, I am not going to *demonstrate* anything here as I have said. I've offered for anyone who requests a copy of my paper to give it to them on condition that they keep it to themselves. That is where a demonstration is made.

Ed

SkepticTheist:

I

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It should be. Unfortunately, however, since Mr. Schryver's presentation has been hyped as the salvation of the BofA from critics, many Latter-day Saints seem to have found themselves in a position comparable to George Armstrong Custer, with the combined forces of the Lakota, Northern Cheyenne, and Arapaho dismantling the BofA.

How we ever let Mr. Schryver lead this charge, I'll never know.

Speaking as an Arapaho, I hereby declare that David is to be granted safe passage in and out of our camp for the purpose of conducting peace talks. He is not to be harmed or molested in any manner. Chris will put him up in his teepee and arrange for squaw service.

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And God can channel that inspiration through Flavius Josephus, Moses de Leon, Thomas Taylor, Thomas D i c k, Joshua Seixas, Alexander Niebaur et al. on its way to Joseph Smith.

I would love to see a diagram that indicates the corresponding relationships between the BoA and the sources you cite above. I suspect it would be a much less impressive argument if one were able to actually compare the text of all the sources in your list with the text of the BoA, especially the contents of chapter 3.

Especially amazing considering the radical shift from monotheism in the Kirtland-translated portion (1-2:18) to polytheism in the Nauvoo chapters.

Are you sure there aren't any historical references to Joseph Smith's so-called "polytheism" in Kirtland and elsewhere prior to 1842?

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Speaking as an Arapaho, I hereby declare that David is to be granted safe passage in and out of our camp for the purpose of conducting peace talks. He is not to be harmed or molested in any manner. Chris will put him up in his teepee and arrange for squaw service.

I see you're all just one big happy family.

Or is this just one of those "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" kinds of things?

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Ok, I'm addicted to the thread again, and have to get to work. Signing off.

PM me if you want to talk. I have to tear myself away from this and not return till maybe the weekend, although I think I've already said pretty much all that can be said about my position.

Ed

I would love to see a diagram that indicates the corresponding relationships between the BoA and the sources you cite above. I suspect it would be a much less impressive argument if one were able to actually compare the text of all the sources in your list with the text of the BoA, especially the contents of chapter 3.

Are you sure there aren't any historical references to Joseph Smith's so-called "polytheism" in Kirtland and elsewhere prior to 1842?

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Ok, I'm addicted to the thread again, and have to get to work. Signing off.

Ditto! There have been so many interesting threads I'm not getting any work done!

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Are you sure there aren't any historical references to Joseph Smith's so-called "polytheism" in Kirtland and elsewhere prior to 1842?

There's no question that Joseph's theological perspectives matured over the course of time. D&C 121 (given in 1839) states the in the Restoration, "whether there be one God or many gods, they shall be manifest" (v. 27).

Yet to assume, therefore, that Joseph did not yet hold the view of a multiplicity of Gods would be incorrect, for as verse 32 from the same revelation states, the period of Restoration was set "according to that which was ordained in the midst of the Council of the Eternal God of all other gods before this world was."

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Speaking as an Arapaho, I hereby declare that David is to be granted safe passage in and out of our camp for the purpose of conducting peace talks. He is not to be harmed or molested in any manner. Chris will put him up in his teepee and arrange for squaw service.

LOL! I suspect this is only because I have a gift for smoking meats.

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LOL! I suspect this is only because I have a gift for smoking meats.

I was going to say that it was probably because of your BBQ ribs.

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There's no question that Joseph's theological perspectives matured over the course of time. D&C 121 (given in 1839) states the in the Restoration, "whether there be one God or many gods, they shall be manifest" (v. 27).

Yet to assume, therefore, that Joseph did not yet hold the view of a multiplicity of Gods would be incorrect, for as verse 32 from the same revelation states, the period of Restoration was set "according to that which was ordained in the midst of the Council of the Eternal God of all other gods before this world was."

Yes, we're all very familiar with those verses. It's clear that this "polytheism" stuff predates the Nauvoo era. But I also wonder if there are additional historical hints that the idea of a "multiplicity of Gods" goes all the way back to Kirtland.

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Yes, we're all very familiar with those verses. It's clear that this "polytheism" stuff predates the Nauvoo era. But I also wonder if there are additional historical hints that the idea of a "multiplicity of Gods" goes all the way back to Kirtland.

Is it possible for you to be more condescending?

:P

Good bye.

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I'm told that Will Schryver's hypothesis has been totally destroyed.

I guess I missed that.

You best stay down in your bunker where it's safe. I'm afraid the carnage would unsettle your psyche. We'll let you know when then debris is cleared and it's okay to emerge.

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Is it possible for you to be more condescending?

:P

Good bye.

Ok. Interesting.

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Is it possible for you to be more condescending?

:P

Good bye.

I'm afraid you've very much misread my tone. I only meant that I was looking for some non-scriptural references to the polytheism stuff. Why so quick to be offended? None was intended, I assure you.

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I would love to see a diagram that indicates the corresponding relationships between the BoA and the sources you cite above. I suspect it would be a much less impressive argument if one were able to actually compare the text of all the sources in your list with the text of the BoA, especially the contents of chapter 3.

See here for one of the many possible 19-century sources for chapter 3.

Are you sure there aren't any historical references to Joseph Smith's so-called "polytheism" in Kirtland and elsewhere prior to 1842?

Feel free to provide some references prior to Nov. 1835.

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Feel free to provide some references prior to Nov. 1835.

Why? I think 1836 - 39 is plenty early for such references to have been influenced by the already translated BoA.

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I see you're all just one big happy family.

Or is this just one of those "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" kinds of things?

You're my friend too Nomad. In fact, my fondness for you grows with each of your posts. You remind me so much of my dear friend William Schryver, I simply can't tell the two of you apart. Did you ever see Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead? A central motif is that the two players are effectively the same character, so much so, that they themselves can't sort out who is whom. I feel the same way about you and William.

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LOL! I suspect this is only because I have a gift for smoking meats.

Yes, I haven't forgotten your kindly offer.

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You're my friend too Nomad. In fact, my fondness for you grows with each of your posts. You remind me so much of my dear friend William Schryver, I simply can't tell the two of you apart. Did you ever see Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead? A central motif is that the two players are effectively the same character, so much so, that they themselves can't sort out who is whom. I feel the same way about you and William.

Yes, you might say we

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I did a google on "Nomad" and "Schryver" and it seems there is actually some precedent for believing that Nomad may well be William's sock puppet.

For example, this thread on an exmo board:

http://exmormonforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3461&p=47264&hilit=Will+Schryver

I certainly can't say that I'm not guilty of having my own alter egos in the past.

Yes, you might say we

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