inquiringmind Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Has anyone heard of "The Detroit Manuscript"?I could post some links here, but the only ones I've seen are anti-Mormon.I'm looking for a good Mormon apologetic response to the allegation that the characters on the Anthon transcript were copied from the Detroit Manuscript. (they're said to be 60% identical, and it's claimed that there was some connection between the discoverer, and Joseph Smith's family.)Can anyone help? Link to comment
Doug the Hutt Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I think post some links, copy & paste some data. Let the evidence speak for itself. Link to comment
Calm Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Has anyone heard of "The Detroit Manuscript"?I could post some links here, but the only ones I've seen are anti-Mormon.I'm looking for a good Mormon apologetic response to the allegation that the characters on the Anthon transcript were copied from the Detroit Manuscript. (they're said to be 60% identical, and it's claimed that there was some connection between the discoverer, and Joseph Smith's family.)Can anyone help?If they are specific to the issue and the site does not contain temple content, it should be okay. Link to comment
rick7475 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Has anyone heard of "The Detroit Manuscript"?I could post some links here, but the only ones I've seen are anti-Mormon.I'm looking for a good Mormon apologetic response to the allegation that the characters on the Anthon transcript were copied from the Detroit Manuscript. (they're said to be 60% identical, and it's claimed that there was some connection between the discoverer, and Joseph Smith's family.)Can anyone help?Since the Anthon Transcript letters were found to be 96% identical to two Meso-American artifacts with Ancient American writing, I don't think 60% cuts it. Link to comment
Mike Reed Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Since the Anthon Transcript letters were found to be 96% identical to two Meso-American artifacts with Ancient American writing, I don't think 60% cuts it.Source please. Link to comment
inquiringmind Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 Since the Anthon Transcript letters were found to be 96% identical to two Meso-American artifacts with Ancient American writing, I don't think 60% cuts it.That's the kind of info I was hoping for.Please give me more.Are there any links you could post here? Link to comment
rick7475 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 That's the kind of info I was hoping for.Please give me more.Are there any links you could post here? Link to comment
inquiringmind Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 Found it.http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/jbms/?vol=8&num=1&id=188Thank you. Link to comment
Zakuska Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Here is a start:http://www.google.co...earchBox&ie==Especillay these two:http://maxwellinstit...=6&num=3&id=757CHARACTERS ON TWO ANCIENT AMERICAN CYLINDER STAMPS AND ON THE ANTHON TRANSCRIPT COMPARE FAVORABLYOne of the few systematic studies of the "caractors" of the "Anthon Transcript," as it was known a decade ago, was published by Carl Hugh Jones in 1970 as "The 'Anthon Transcript' and Two Mesoamerican Cylinder Seals." His paper appeared in the Newsletter of the Society for Early Historical Archaeology and is now available as a F.A.R.M.S. Reprint. The author is a museum professional with the Nebraska State Historical Society.This paper tabulates the recurring marks on the Anthon Transcript according to a numbering system keyed to numbered lines and characters. For example, one learns immediately that the mark that looks something like a large numeral "two" occurs six times on four different lines. Repeated occurrences of series of marks are also tabulated. Serious decipherment attempts will benefit from this systematic labeling and counting.In addition, the author shows that many similar marks or signs are found on a roller stamp discovered at La Venta, Tabasco, Mexico, and another found at Tlatilco, Mexico. Both stamps date to before the time of Christ and had already been published in the professional literature. Ten signs on the first roller and 28 on the second are compared with the Anthon document. Although the general style of these sets of markings varies, the conclusion reached by Jones is that individual equivalents to all the La Venta signs are visible in the Transcript and that the Tlatilco stamp can even be said to be "an archaeological example of the type of script represented in the Anthon Transcript."http://www.cometozar...edegyptian.html Link to comment
inquiringmind Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 CHARACTERS ON TWO ANCIENT AMERICAN CYLINDER STAMPS AND ON THE ANTHON TRANSCRIPT COMPARE FAVORABLYOne of the few systematic studies of the "caractors" of the "Anthon Transcript," as it was known a decade ago, was published by Carl Hugh Jones in 1970 as "The 'Anthon Transcript' and Two Mesoamerican Cylinder Seals." His paper appeared in the Newsletter of the Society for Early Historical Archaeology and is now available as a F.A.R.M.S. Reprint. The author is a museum professional with the Nebraska State Historical Society.This paper tabulates the recurring marks on the Anthon Transcript according to a numbering system keyed to numbered lines and characters. For example, one learns immediately that the mark that looks something like a large numeral "two" occurs six times on four different lines. Repeated occurrences of series of marks are also tabulated. Serious decipherment attempts will benefit from this systematic labeling and counting.In addition, the author shows that many similar marks or signs are found on a roller stamp discovered at La Venta, Tabasco, Mexico, and another found at Tlatilco, Mexico. Both stamps date to before the time of Christ and had already been published in the professional literature. Ten signs on the first roller and 28 on the second are compared with the Anthon document. Although the general style of these sets of markings varies, the conclusion reached by Jones is that individual equivalents to all the La Venta signs are visible in the Transcript and that the Tlatilco stamp can even be said to be "an archaeological example of the type of script represented in the Anthon Transcript."If this annalysis is correct, wouldn't it be extreemly unlikely that the caractors on the Anthon Transcript were simply made up or copied from the Detroit Manuscript?In fact, wouldn't it be almost a statistical impossibility (or is that going too far)? Link to comment
beth Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 If the Anthon manuscript characters match up to some extent with real known characters from some other language(s) as FARMS suggests, then why can't someone do some sort of translation of the Anthon document? I realize it wouldn't be perfect, but they should be able to come up with something?And if the translation had phrases and such from the BofM, then that would seem to be evidence in its favor, right? Link to comment
Kevin Christensen Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 If the Anthon manuscript characters match up to some extent with real known characters from some other language(s) as FARMS suggests, then why can't someone do some sort of translation of the Anthon document? I realize it wouldn't be perfect, but they should be able to come up with something?And if the translation had phrases and such from the BofM, then that would seem to be evidence in its favor, right?The problem is in having known characters for the comparison. The two cylinder seals are from an unknown script. They make a case that the script fits and ancient Mesoamerican context, but provide not clues for actually reading.Wade Brown published an interesting book eight or nine years ago (The First Page of the Book of Mormon) in which he observes two chiastic patterns in the Anthon transcript. The first is complete, the second is partial, indicating that the one who copied the characters on the Anthon transcript stopped before completing the second chiastic pattern. Brown tried the match up the pattern with chiastic passages in the current Book of Mormon, but concluded that the Anthon characters are from the lost pages. Hence, we have no direct template for translation. He does suggest a few things, like the use of dash as "and it came to pass" and noticed some other patterns that fit with Mormon's language use, but he could not narrow down the options.The patterns do suggest that the characters are not random, but that there is a message there.Kevin ChristensenPittsburgh, PA Link to comment
Rob Bowman Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 It took some doing, but I was able to find a PDF of the issue of the SEHA newsletter that included the article by Jones (merely Googling the title didn't work). Here is the link:http://www.shields-research.org/General/SEHA/SEHA_Newsletter_122-2.PDF Link to comment
Tango Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Since the Anthon Transcript letters were found to be 96% identical to two Meso-American artifacts with Ancient American writing, I don't think 60% cuts it.As if....CRF pal-- Link to comment
TAO Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 As if....CRF pal--It was already posted in this thread. It's in the past few links. Link to comment
rick7475 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 As if....CRF pal--LOL Link to comment
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 As if....CRF pal--You are a riot Tango. Why don't you deal with the evidence presented? CFR already answered. Since this thread is so short I am willing to bet you can find the posts that contain the reference. Link to comment
Tango Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 It took some doing, but I was able to find a PDF of the issue of the SEHA newsletter that included the article by Jones (merely Googling the title didn't work). Here is the link:http://www.shields-r...etter_122-2.PDFNice try pal, but this has already been proven a forgery. Wow..talk about a gulable bunch of mormons.. Link to comment
Calm Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Nice try pal, but this has already been proven a forgery. Wow..talk about a gulable bunch of mormons..Rob Bowman, a "gulable" mormon. Sweet! Link to comment
TAO Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Nice try pal, but this has already been proven a forgery. Wow..talk about a gulable bunch of mormons..Rob isn't a mormon, just so you know... he's actually a critic. And I'm pretty sure he'd verify his sources first, he's one of the people who does that naturally. I'd kinda doubt it is a forge. Link to comment
Tango Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Rob Bowman, a "gulable" mormon. Sweet!What really makes me laugh out loud (or was it loud laughter), is how the Mormon religion can be oh so twisted...so to end this thread I will leave our beloved words of Mormon 9:34But the Lord knoweth the things which we have written, and also that none other people knoweth our language; and because that none other people knoweth our language, therefore he hath prepared means for the interpretation thereofOh poor Anthon..lmao- Link to comment
inquiringmind Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 Nice try pal, but this has already been proven a forgery. Wow..talk about a gulable bunch of mormons.I'm not a Mormon (yet), and I'm skeptical by nature, but please give us some info (don't just hit and run here.)What was proven a forgery (the copy of the Anthon Transcript in the possesion of the RLDS, or the cylinder seals)?How, when, and by whom was it proven a forgery? Link to comment
Doug the Hutt Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Nice try pal, but this has already been proven a forgery. Wow..talk about a gulable bunch of mormons..CFR that it was proved a forgery, if you don't mind. (I'm a gullible Mormon -- please enlighten me). Thanks. Link to comment
Kevin Christensen Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I'm not a Mormon (yet), and I'm skeptical by nature, but please give us some info (don't just hit and run here.)What was proven a forgery (the copy of the Anthon Transcript in the possesion of the RLDS, or the cylinder seals)?How, when, and by whom was it proven a forgery?Mark Hofmann faked a version of the Anthon transcript. The one referred to in the article on the Cylinder seals is not the forgery. Nor are the cylinder seals forgeries.Kevin ChristensenBethel Park, PA Link to comment
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