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phaedrus ut

Living among polygamists

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On a related note if someone does the temple work for a FLDS family can they seal the multiple wives to the husband?

The Church will not perform any plural marriages at all, I would assume that this would include sealing FDLS ancestors to there plural wives. I don't think you can even submit for a husband to be sealed to more than one wife on familysearch.org

Also since the FDLS reject the modern prophet and the fullness of the Gospel and continue to live in illegal polygamous relationships, I don't know if they can even obtain celestial glory if they die as FLDS since they rejected the truth in this life.

As far as I have been taught and have read from the scriptures if you reject the gospel in this life you cannot be saved by proxy in the next. You can only inherit Terrestrial or Telestial Glory, depending on how what you do in the spirit world.

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It's strange to me how many on this thread are OK with the familial arrangement pictured above.

It looks to me to be a happy and prosperous family, why would anyone have a problem with that?

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A very active but somewhat feminist leaning friend of mine commented that unlike another of our mutual friends she could never live in close proximity to polygamist families. When I asked if she would be comfortable living among polygamists in the celestial kingdom she paused and told me that if any of her immediately family wanted to practice polygamy she would choose to drop to a lower kingdom.

Does anyone else feel the same?

Phaedrus

If it is the cult-like polygamist groups of today

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And Joseph F. Smith had only 5 plural wives. Imagine someone like Brigham Young with 55 wives. That would be quite a picture.

It's strange to me how many on this thread are OK with the familial arrangement pictured above. On a related note if someone does the temple work for a FLDS family can they seal the multiple wives to the husband?

Phaedrus

If we get it wrong our God can figure it out.

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The Church will not perform any plural marriages at all, I would assume that this would include sealing FDLS ancestors to there plural wives. I don't think you can even submit for a husband to be sealed to more than one wife on familysearch.org

Yes they will...if all are dead. And of course the marriage took place after 1890.

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Like I previously said, as far as I know the married women had fled spouses who refused to divorce them after they converted to the Church.

Unfortunately, you are incorrect. According to LDS historians, Joseph married the wives men who were out on missions Joseph sent them on. How do you account for that?

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Yes they will...if all are dead. And of course the marriage took place after 1890.

That was my understanding too. If there are multiple marriages there are multiple sealings. In the case of widow with multiple husbands it's understood that she would be choosing which sealing to accept. A man with multiple wives would be able to be sealed to them all.

Phaedrus

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That was my understanding too. If there are multiple marriages there are multiple sealings. In the case of widow with multiple husbands it's understood that she would be choosing which sealing to accept. A man with multiple wives would be able to be sealed to them all.

Don't make the mistake of conflating sealing with marriage, though. They are not synonymous. The fact that Joseph Smith got sealed to men provides some clues as to the broader role of sealings.

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Don't make the mistake of conflating sealing with marriage, though. They are not synonymous. The fact that Joseph Smith got sealed to men provides some clues as to the broader role of sealings.

We also know that Joseph's sealings were not platonic sealings but actual marriages from the testimony of his many wives.

Phaedrus

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We also know that Joseph's sealings were not platonic sealings but actual marriages from the testimony of his many wives.

Marriages can also be platonic, although I have the feeling that Joseph's love was purer and far more all-encompassing than any of his critics are willing to admit. Few men exemplified brotherly kindness as much as he did.

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Marriages can also be platonic,

I've read the testimony/affidavits from 13 of his wives that their marriages weren't platonic but I've never seen the same for any wife saying the marriage was platonic. Do you know of any?

although I have the feeling that Joseph's love was purer and far more all-encompassing than any of his critics are willing to admit.

Interesting thought but I'm not sure exactly what you mean by it.

Phaedrus

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I think this was more about raising a righteous "root stock" than about providing for the needs of many widows. The passage in Jacob supports this notion.

Agree with this.

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Lust may play a part in marriage, only in the sense that lust is a desire to procreate.

As to living in a lesser kingdom because polygamy exists in the celestial kingdom, I can respect that decision, we all rise and fall to the kingdom we are most comfortable with. She may simply be declaring where she feels most at home.

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Lust may play a part in marriage, only in the sense that lust is a desire to procreate.

As to living in a lesser kingdom because polygamy exists in the celestial kingdom, I can respect that decision, we all rise and fall to the kingdom we are most comfortable with. She may simply be declaring where she feels most at home.

It's the logic that's behind that opinion though that is strange to me. Her position---if accurately related---is that monogamy is the morally superior form of marriage and the polygamy is so much less moral that she refuses to be in its neighbourhood....yet OTOH she is talking about the highest degree in the CK where if God is God, logically it would consist of the most moral individuals in existence (being one with the Father who is defined as being the epitome of the ultimate 'good' person).

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It's the logic that's behind that opinion though that is strange to me. Her position---if accurately related---is that monogamy is the morally superior form of marriage and the polygamy is so much less moral that she refuses to be in its neighbourhood....yet OTOH she is talking about the highest degree in the CK where if God is God, logically it would consist of the most moral individuals in existence (being one with the Father who is defined as being the epitome of the ultimate 'good' person).

It's definitely a paradox to hold two opposing beliefs like she does. Logic tells us that they both can't be right. If the church is true, like she believes, then polygamy is a normal and righteous form of marriage and she should expect it in the CK.

Phaedrus

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I think that there is some underlying contempt here, for one to have so much distaste and pride to say they would rather leave the presence of God for eternity instead of be around a polygamist is crazy.

Does she know that Joseph Smith had at least 24 wives, Brigham Young had 50 wives (and 54 children)?

LDS Guy:

Does she know that the chosen people of the Lord were from a polygamous marriage: Jacob, whose name was changed to Israel, had four wives who bore him 12 sons (the 12 tribes of Israel) and one daughter?

Does she know that Abraham had two wives... one of whom bore Isaac, and one who bore Ishmael (both of whom he blessed to be the fathers of great nations, and we see that today).

GG

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Speaking for myself and many other female friends of mine:

19th century Latter-day Polygamists (Like Joseph Smith and Brigham Young) I can handle. Just not those Modern Latter-day polygamists.

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Speaking for myself and many other female friends of mine:

19th century Latter-day Polygamists (Like Joseph Smith and Brigham Young) I can handle. Just not those Modern Latter-day polygamists.

Definition of Irony: See above quote!

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Speaking for myself and many other female friends of mine:

19th century Latter-day Polygamists (Like Joseph Smith and Brigham Young) I can handle. Just not those Modern Latter-day polygamists.

How do you feel about your husband or your father taking additional wives in the Celestial Kingdom?

Phaedrus

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It's definitely a paradox to hold two opposing beliefs like she does. Logic tells us that they both can't be right. If the church is true, like she believes, then polygamy is a normal and righteous form of marriage and she should expect it in the CK.

Phaedrus

Not to mention, as I did earlier, that Section 132 specifically points out that Abraham, Issac and Jacob were not only polygamists, but are now described as "gods".

If those are the kind of people she does NOT want to associate with, uh, well, so be it I guess!!!

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Unfortunately, you are incorrect. According to LDS historians, Joseph married the wives men who were out on missions Joseph sent them on. How do you account for that?

Sealings...for the un-endowed. We will never know until all things are revealed, and speculation (or those who think they know for sure) is a waste.

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Speaking for myself and many other female friends of mine:

19th century Latter-day Polygamists (Like Joseph Smith and Brigham Young) I can handle. Just not those Modern Latter-day polygamists.

How many of the "modern Latter-day polygamists" do you know, exactly?

I know quite a few who are excellent husbands and fathers.

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How do you feel about your husband or your father taking additional wives in the Celestial Kingdom?

Phaedrus

I'm not currently married, but I can't imagine God allowing a situation where I am still sealed to my ex-husband and he is sealed to another woman because that would not be agreeable to me and would not fit my definition of heaven. My father is not a member and believes the Church is foolishness so I don't think he will make it to the celestial kingdom.

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I'm not currently married, but I can't imagine God allowing a situation where I am still sealed to my ex-husband and he is sealed to another woman because that would not be agreeable to me and would not fit my definition of heaven. My father is not a member and believes the Church is foolishness so I don't think he will make it to the celestial kingdom.

Thanks for helping me with my curiosity. Hopefully Mr. Right will be coming by for you soon.

Phaedrus

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