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Was King David damned?

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What is the basis for the Mormon belief that King David was damned?

What is the basis for the belief of some evangelicals that King David was saved in the end?

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What is the basis for the Mormon belief that King David was damned?

I'm not sure about David's being "damned", but he will not be exalted.

39 David's wives and concubines were given unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the keys of this power; and in none of these things did he sin against me save in the case of Uriah and his wife; and, therefore he hath fallen from his exaltation, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I gave them unto another, saith the Lord.

But it depends on the definition of "damned" one uses.

What is the basis for the belief of some evangelicals that King David was saved in the end?
10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

They misunderstand "hell" in this passage, I suppose.

There are also many passages like this one:

4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.

Lehi

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Don't know that LDS use the term "damned", and certainly not like other Christians do.

In fact, LDS would believe Davvid is saved (to the extent he will be resurrected and receive a measure of glory (a revelation on that point is contained in the Doctrine and Covenants).

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Let's clarify... David heart was NOT perfect before the Lord... From the Inspired Version of the Bible...

1st Kings 11

4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, his wives turned away his heart after other gods; and his heart was not perfect with the Lord his God, and it became as the heart of David his father.

David had a lustful heart that was NOT right before the Lord. Joseph changed SEVERAL verses speaking of David's supposedly perfect heart to mean exactly the opposite of what the KJV does. David was a good king with a lustful heart, but he was the best the Lord had to work with.

2nd...

The verse quoted in D&C 132 directly contradicts the words of the prophet Jacob. Whereas the false revelation in 132 states that David ONLY sinned in the case of Uriah and Bathseba, Jacob clearly states his polygamy as a whole was an abomination...

Jacob 2:24

Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.

He didn't say "some of which was an abomination", he said "which thing", the whole shootin' match was an abomination.

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The Biblw speaks of "the sure mercies of David," and (correct me if I'm wrong) the book of Mormon never says he's entirely lost.

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Let's clarify... David heart was NOT perfect before the Lord... From the Inspired Version of the Bible...

David had a lustful heart that was NOT right before the Lord. Joseph changed SEVERAL verses speaking of David's supposedly perfect heart to mean exactly the opposite of what the KJV does. David was a good king with a lustful heart, but he was the best the Lord had to work with.

As the question was about what Evangelicals believe, bringing up the JST would not have been appropriate.

The verse quoted in D&C 132 directly contradicts the words of the prophet Jacob. Whereas the false revelation in 132 states that David ONLY sinned in the case of Uriah and Bathseba, Jacob clearly states his polygamy as a whole was an abomination...He didn't say "some of which was an abomination", he said "which thing", the whole shootin' match was an abomination.

Actually, it's you who have misrepresented what Jacob said. here's the whole thing.

23 But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son.

24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord. 25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph. 26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.

27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none; 28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.

29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes. 30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

Jacob was speaking to a specific people, not all Saints throughout time.

The Lord was clear that He could change this restriction at His will.

Your "which thing" may easily be referring top concubinage, not plural marriage, as I have said in other messages on this forum.

Section 132 is not a "false revelation", your myopia notwithstanding.

Lehi

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You do realize your interpretation of verse 29 is directly contradicted by verse 24, right?

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Which part exactly was abominable to the Lord?

Was it the many wives?

Was it the many concubines?

Was it having both wives and concubines at the same time?

Was it just that they had too many instead of only a few?

Is it just David and Solomon's practices that were abominable, since Abraham and Jacob had multiple wives but aren't mentioned?

Well, we know that the Lord left an "escape clause" - so clearly some combination of plural marriage is at times valid.

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What is the basis for the Mormon belief that King David was damned?

What is the basis for the belief of some evangelicals that King David was saved in the end?

I'll try to field the question from an Evangelical perspective.

Christ's words in Luke, regarding David.

Luk 20:41 And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son?

Luk 20:42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

Luk 20:43 Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Luk 20:44 David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?

Christ, I think may primarily be trying to address an identity issue on some level. But Christ recognizes that David's worship was in a correct direction. David seems to be portrayed as one who knows this "Lord".

So I wouldn't throw him under the bus with those Christ speaks of in Matthew 7.

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Also David seemed to have faith in an afterlife more promising than sheol (translated hell) in the KJV.

Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Psa 16:11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.

Also, I think the Luke passage and Psalms passage give us fair evidence that David qualified for the same imputation of righteousness by faith that Abraham was given, as mentioned in Romans 4.

Regards,

Mudcat

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What is the basis for the Mormon belief that King David was damned?

Modern revelation. D&C 132:39 specifically. The Bible also tells us that David missed (Acts 2:34) the first resurrection (Matthew 27:50-53). 1 John 3:15 might also figure prominently.

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Which part exactly was abominable to the Lord?

Was it the many wives?

Was it the many concubines?

Was it having both wives and concubines at the same time?

Was it just that they had too many instead of only a few?

Is it just David and Solomon's practices that were abominable, since Abraham and Jacob had multiple wives but aren't mentioned?

Well, we know that the Lord left an "escape clause" - so clearly some combination of plural marriage is at times valid.

It's not having multiple wives that was an abomination for David and Solomon, other wise Abraham, Isaac, Israel (Jacob), Moses, and most well off men of the Old Testament are abominable.

The number of wives isn't the abomination things that had to do with there wives or mistresses.

David once night was on the roof of his palace and saw a woman bathing, she was very beautify and David lusted after her. He asked who she was and found out she was the wife of one of his soldiers (who was currently out fighting in David's name). He had an affair with her and impregnated her. Attempting to cover up his great sin he recalled the solider and hoped he would go have relations with his wife so David could be off the hook. This never happened, David tried kept him around for several days (even got him drunk) but he refused to go to his home and sleep with his wife while his soldiers were fighting and dying in combat. Unable to cover his crimes, David ordered the General of his Army to make sure the loyal solider died in battle by betraying him and leaving him to die at the enemies sword. The General would not do such a dishonorable thing so instead he sent the soldiers platoon on a suicide mission to attack the walls of a well fortified city. Most of the platoon died, but so did the soldier, David married his mistress to cover his sin. This act of mass murder to cover his infidelity is why David can never receive exaltation. Murders cannot be forgiven, they will inherit a lower kingdom of glory but can never return to God's presence.

As for Solomon, he married many foreign women, these women incited him over time to worship other gods instead of the God of Israel. This was his abomination, unlike David though his sins can be overcome and he still could of inherited Celestial Glory had he repented of his sins during his lifetime.

In both cases it's not taking more than one wife which was an abomination it was the circumstances and actions that surrounded there marriages that was abominable.

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You do realize your interpretation of verse 29 is directly contradicted by verse 24, right?

How does verse 29 contradict 24?

Verse 24 says only have one wife and no concubines (using the wicked murders of David to obtain one of his wives and idol worship of Solomon that resulted from there taking multiple wives).

Verse 30 says that at times God will command his people to raise seed (aka children) onto him, like he did with Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Israel, ect.

God did this again in the early periods of this dispensation of the Gospel but the practice was stopped in 1890.

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10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
They misunderstand "hell" in this passage, I suppose.

In order for that passage not to conflict with with the Biblical fact that David missed the first resurrection, one might have to adopt a doctrine of hell not lasting forever and degrees of salvation. No worries, the Bible teaches this anyway.

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